In one thread on the forum I saw a poster reference the Camaro as ‘dominating’ Pony car sales. I thought that the word ‘dominate’ was a strange choice of phrasing. Neither the Mustang or the Camaro are setting the world afire with sales. Camaro in 2012 saw sales of 84,391 units, which represents roughly a 5% drop from the previous year. In 2012 Mustang saw a sales increase to 82,995 units, an increase of nearly 16% from 2011, just 1,356 units shy of what the Camaro sold.

It’s hard to see an advantage of 1,356 units sold, or even 2,076 units (current YTD sales) as ‘domination’, particularly in a case when Camaro is currently reporting a double digit percentage drop in sales for the year to date. If you want a more definitive example of domination try sales for the model year 2001. (2001 Camaro =29,009, 2001 Mustang 169,198.)

2013 YTD sales through April for both cars have to have been disappointing for GM and Ford. The Camaro shows 27,147 units sold, which represents a YTD drop of 14% from the same period last year. Mustang sales through April have been reported as 25,071, which represents a 10.2% drop over last year’s sales at this date. Sales of both vehicles show an alarming trend: down, when the rest of the automotive market is trending up. April sales of the Camaro show a 17% drop over the April sales of 2012. April sales of Mustang shows a 0.6% drop over April of 2012.*

In contrast the Dodge Challenger saw increases 17.1% over April 2012 and 32.3% increase in YTD sales. (GM and Ford can only wish that they had a pony car that showed an increasing instead of decreasing sales trend.) The decline in sales for both Mustang and Camaro stands in stark contrast to the sales increase for automobiles across the board and even sharper contrast to the strong increase in Challenger sales.

Which leads to the question, Do Ford and GM have it wrong? Ford and Chevy have announced the intention to build a smaller and lighter Pony car with the next iteration of their respective name plates. But, is that really what the buying public wants? The Challenger is big enough to have a back seat that is actually serviceable, making the Challenger a viable option, even for a buyer with the logistical problem of transporting a family. The same cannot be said of the current Mustang and Camaro.

So, is downsizing the Mustang a smart move? Should GM have taken advantage of the Camaro’s already robust sedan (Holden Commodore) chassis and made the next Camaro offering a Challenger sized ride? Further reducing the size of these cars makes them more of a sports car, which moves them into a much smaller marketing niche. Not to belabor the obvious, but sports cars are not volume sellers. Has the pony car segment reached an evolutionary dead-end?


PS: In my opinion the Challenger does not exactly fit the definition of a pony car. Its size, at least to me make it more of a muscle car, a two-door version of a sedan, such as the original muscle car, the Pontiac GTO.

* Source: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/05...-2013-ytd.html

 

For those who didn't grow up in love with Mustangs, or Mustang lore (same with the Canario), there simply is more choice with better value, or Cabin environments, or features available for the money.

 

This. I think that the mustang has to change drastically to stay relevant. I see the renderings here that seem to draw so much hatred and think, I hope ford goes at least that far away from the current model. I love the look but I've already bought a car. I'm also 39 years old. I'm not the market they need to be after.

 

I'm all for the introduction of a new model. Not as enthusiastic about making the mustang competitive with cars that are of a different class. Makes no sense to me. I doubt ford will ever make a dent in civic sales by making a smaller mustang

 

I don't think S550 will really be any smaller. Perhaps shorter overhangs, but interior space shouldn't change to much.

Mustang WILL be going after new competitors, but not the Civic or it's like. I can see the Mustang going slightly upmarket to compete on a more level playing field with the BMW 4 Series, Audi A5 etc.

 

Hardly anyone that is interested in BMWs and Audis will ever consider a mustang IMO. Those cars will always be more associated with status and flash and well, the mustang will always just be a mustang. It is successful as being known for cheap speed and that's where it should stay. No one that wants to be seen in a bimmer will ever want to be seen in a plain old run of the mill mustang. It's as simple as that.

 

I would bet there are a select few that would cross shop an M3, S4/5, and GT500.

 

I agree that it is absurd to say the Camaro has been "dominating" pony car sales when it has barely a sliver of increased sales over the Mustang. Also, while Challenger sales have picked up, it's still a distant third place selling less than half of Mustang or Camaro sales. It is not a pony car, either, so it's an apples and oranges comparison.
I think the Mustang can thrive with a new design if it retains the coyote motor and loses a substantial amount of weight. Would removing the back seat entirely make it a sports car? Hell, yes, but so what. It would still be the cheapest high-performance sports car in the world. Ford has to move on this car. 80k units just won't cut it. Change or die.

 

But is maybe selling 100 more cars worth what they would have to go through. Idk. Just doesn't seem right to me. But I'm just a guy tapping away on his iPhone.

 

Really? The Boss brought me back to domestics after a 20 plus year absence with my last 5 cars all being BWMs. Before that it was a Japanese cars. I like the Boss but it still lacks refinement I expect the '15 to address.

 

Not quite as simple as that. If all they want is a status symbol, then maybe. But BMWs are as much about dynamics and quality as anything else. Guess what I drive as a daily driver? Yep, a BMW. A 330i to be precise.

I honestly think Ford will be looking to go upscale with the next gen car, just as they have with the latest Fusion. It wouldn't be too much of a leap to see them taking sales from BMW, Audi and Mercedes, especially in Europe.

Guess time will tell

 

Your quote embodies exactly what I think the next Mustang will be like. I think people still underestimate just how good the current engine is and how good the car can be.
I believe that just like the me Vette, the Mustang will be getting some upscale treats but probably not to break the bank. The base Corvette is currently $49,600 us. The new one should price close and they redesigned an entire car inside and out.

BTW give your 330i some credit, it's a ZHP!

 

Oh, I love my BMW (although I haven't enjoyed paying to replace the entire cooling system this year - but "they all do that Sir" at the age/mileage of mine). As a second-hand purchase, they are superb value, especially the 3 litre petrols as not many people want the running costs. The whole car just "gels".

I've driven a 2010 and 2011 Mustang and I well remember that first drive in the 2010. I was blown away at the composed ride and much better attention to NVH compared to my '05. It just seemed so much more refined. The interior......or at least the dashboard and centre console were also much nicer quality. Sure, the door panels and carpets are still the same cheapo stuff in my '05, but overall it felt like a different car.

If Ford can take a similar jump with the S550 quality, Ford should have no problem impressing BMW and Audi drivers.

 

They would have to get rave reviews from just about every publication, in all my 20+ years in retail, I've learned perception is everything and that's hard to overcome.

Even if the perceived quality is there Mustang still has to overcome the juvenile aspect (even though the average Mustang driver is middle-aged), I'm asked constantly at work why I drive a kid's car and that I should step up to something more respectable like a Camry or Accord.

 

He we are middle aged, not dead. I'll drive a Camry when I've stopped enjoying my life, which I hope is never.

 

There is nothing wrong with people who enjoy a nice, quiet and comfortable car like the Camry. Otherwise, somebody who drives a Maybach or a Rolls Royce might be considered as somebody who "stopped enjoying a life" ...

I'm 29 years old and I prefer quiet and comfortable cars over sporty and loud cars ... I would rather drive a Lincoln MKZ or Toyota Avalon or Lexus ES than a Camaro SS or Mustang GT.

 

Nothing wrong at all if they don't have a soul

 

I guess I'll figure it out when I get hit by a middle life crisis ...

 

Lets see I was 35.

You've got six years plus or minus.

 

Or if they miss Oldsmobile!