Robert

Ahhhh, yes, for all of you who hypocritically elected to ban me because I SPOKE THE TRUTH about Toyota quality vs. Ford quality, I thought I'd leave you ostriches with this parting thought:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/16/ford.vehi...=cnn_topstories

jgsmuzzy

Nice find Robert...... I always like sensationalist journalism

Zastava_101

darn it, darn it, darn it. I was so happy that I'm buying Navigator, but after this story ... Why can't Toyota build good looking car so I can enjoy both good design and quality engine?

bigred0383

We held an election? Where was I, I love taking part in the voting process!

Congradulations, you are the first person to ever refer to me as a, "hypocritical...ostrich."

I bow to your superior knowledge (oops, I meant ego) oh master keyboard warrior.

But seriously, why dig up an old thread, and start a new one, just to take a cheap shot about something that was aruged almost a week ago. How does this help anybody, or add anything productive to the site? Our entire discussion had been about the comparable quality of current makes of cars (in your eyes, especially between Toyota and Ford). However, I will again point out you are comparing old models, as the article says the part in question hasn't been installed in a car after the 2003 model year (2004 and up have a new part). All the cars we had been talking about (as far as I read) were 2004, 2005, and 2006 model year cars. So normally, I would humbly ask that you keep it relevant. However, that approach has already been tried, and I believe Andy has brought forth enough information about the current problems with new model year Toyotas that in the original thread the logical side of the arguement ended, and the name calling ensued. Which is why the thread was closed. Just let it die man.

Please , and would a mod please the thread.

Edit: I apologize for not thanking you for bringing this story to our attention in the first place. It is important for Ford owners as a safety issue, I guess I just wished it could have been presented in a more mature manner.

jsaylor

Robert, I am still trying to figure out why you frequent this forum given your propensity to slam all things Ford. Frankly, I have both built Toyotas and worked for a dealership that sold Toyota's. I have both seen the cars going together and those same cars being serviced and can say that IMO no, Toyota's cars are not typically better built than Fords.

I think the "myth" of high Toyota quality is largely perpetuated by the simple fact that buyers believe the car will be absurdly reliable compared to the competition based on a reputation Toyota has not lived up to in over a decade. In my experience owners tend to act differently towards their car in respect to maintenance and then respond with a different attitude when something does break due to this.

Case in point, my fiance has a Toyota Sienna mini-van assigned as her company car. With 12,00 miles on the odometer the right front brakes are toast (due to a bad caliper) and the rear wheel bearings are both starting to go out. The van also appears to be experiencing uneven tire wear but, of course, the delaership assures her all is normal. Her job requires a lot of stop and go driving, but none of these issues can be excused because of this.

Frankly, I nor anyone in my family that I am aware of has ever owned a new Ford that had 3 seperate problem areas of this significance within that amount of mileage. Does it happen? Of course it does. Does it happen to Toyota's too. Absoutely, and likely just as often as it occurs in Fords or other makes if the truth were known.

I well remember watching Toyota dealer service personnel telling customers that whatever issue they may have with their vehicle was due to X,Y, or Z, and that this was essentially their fault for one reason or another. Of course, it was a total load of bull and the service personnel would most often laugh hysterically that the customer has bought such a ridiculous line once again once out of view.

Why did they buy it? IMO it was simply because they owned a Toyota and we all know Toyota's never break....right? These same customers treated their cars, on average, entirely different han did the typical domestic owner. In honesty, the typical domestic car we would take on trade was abused to one degree or another, often in ways you cannot imagine. The typical Honda or Toyota had been maintained better than the kids.

Perception of quality means more than actual quality in my experience. And, that perception often results in behaviour that changes they way people behave and therefore the end result, skewing the curve even further.

Witness the large number of problems Toyota is having with the Prius hybrid, and also notice that you hardly ever hear about the same. If the above issue with Ford pickups is a risk then a car literally stalling while driving at speed must be considered a greater risk.

Feel free to buy into the bias and the hype if you choose, just don;t expect anyone else here to feel the same or applaud your choice.

jgsmuzzy

Jsaylor, thank you, I think you have put across an point that none of us could match. And with that, and the fact that this is a recurrence of an old thread, I am closing it.