It’s still slower than the similarly priced Z06. My point is that Nissan is lying about the hp numbers. What else are they lying about (ring times)?

The GTR is a hell of a car, but when a fair comparison is done the true numbers come out. Take a peak at the latest C&D comparison.

Nissan will not be able to sustain a loss for the GTR for long. What do you think they are going to do to fix that? The bang for the buck is artificial.

 

It is really not that common for companies to unrated hp. heck american companies are the one who started that in the 60's. And Ford lied about the hp in the 2000 Cobra R, Ford GT and 2003-04 Cobras.

I really don't think that a thing like hp which is a common practice would also relate to track time lying, if so then you pretty much can't belevie anyones.

And the bang for the buck is not artifical going by MSRP. If i could in fact get one for MSRP it would be a great deal. If a manufacture wants to take a loss to make a great bang for the buck for consumer thats their problem but does not diminish the value of it in any way.

 

They're understating the GTR's HP for the same reason Manufacturers did it in the 70s: insurance. A car over five hundred HP is going to cost a lot more to get insured than one under.

It's hard to lie about 'Ring times, they can be checked on the 'Ring timing records. More to the point, what's the point? If you BS your lap time and get caught, its almost like lying about your EPA figures: instantly destroyed reputation with customers.


BTW: The two Corvette Z models sells in the Red as well. Halo cars sell at a loss and its OK because they bring people to the dealerships and respect to the brand.

 

Do you think that people buying a $70,000+ car (plus dealer markups) are worried about insurance costs? Nissan is sandbagging, simple as that.

It’s not hard to lie about Ring times. Nissan could have easily run non-production tires and did minor tweaks to the GTR to get it to run those times. Hell, they spent an eternity at the Ring doing testing. Show me an independent test of a production model tested at the Ring. I only know of one European magazine that tested the GTR at the ring and the times were no where near what Nissan states. I don’t doubt that Nissan ran the time the specified, but was it a true production spec car?

Lastly, do you have any information on the Z06 and ZR1 selling at a loss? I’ve read that GM is actually profitable on both models.

 

So you don't think that a 450hp car won't be faster than a 600hp car around a 13 mile road course? Hell, a simple swap of tires could easily shave 10 seconds off the Ring times easily. My point is that Nissan is sandbagging. This isn't a bad thing, but it does take away a bit from the car when you benchmark it against its competitors.

 

All I remember is how everyone wanted PROOF of Nissan's Ring times before they would be believed yet nobody seems to be holding GM to the same degree of scrutiny. Oh, that's right, GM wouldn't lie.

 

The Rollers Tell the Truth
Though the GT-R has sizable exhaust tips, the four exhaust outlets themselves are surprisingly small in diameter, so the car isn't very loud. Nonetheless, the sound of the big tires against the rollers sets up a terrific banshee wail that seems to turn the air into jelly.

It's not an easy deal. All Japan-spec cars are equipped with a top-speed limiter at 180 km/h (112 mph) and we keep banging into it when we use 4th gear in the GT-R. Finally we select 3rd gear and get some clean pulls.

When the computer finishes crunching the numbers, the data tells us that the 2009 Nissan GT-R is putting out 406 hp at 6,400 rpm and 414 lb-ft of torque at 3,800 rpm. Once you factor in the parasitic losses of the all-wheel-drive system, these numbers are wholly in line with Nissan's claim for the engine's power at the crankshaft. During one pull, the horsepower perked up to 414 hp, but it wasn't repeatable and torque production through the midrange suffered.

 

GM has provided proof in the past. The ZR1 video will be up shortly I assume.

 

Well, aside from the fact that everything GM sells right now is technically at a loss as GM is still loosing money? I don't doubt that dealers make money off the Zs, but its the Base 'Vette sales which drive revenue in the Corvette range, and which allow the loss-making Zs to be made.

 

Wow that is a lot lower then i expected... maybe 3rd gear ruining the number?

 

It was tested on a Mustang dyno too, which read lower than a dynojet. Also, they can be manipulated a bit by the operator.

 

searched the google machine... motor trend dynoed the GTR too. their numbers were better and prob more acurate.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._analysis.html

 

You think it's more accurate to assume 20-25% loss?!
That's crazy. Personally, I think everyone is grasping at straws while trying to explain the GT-R's performance. Face it, the car is amazing and Nissan should be commended for their efforts.

 

What are you talking about, no one is assuming anything with the % loss. The car made 430awhp.
so are you saying that 11% loss on a awd car is accurate.

 

11% loss is a joke. The GTR is under-rated, end of story.

 

We never said that Nissan did a bad job. It is truly amazing what they did. However, GM made a Corvette that should be quicker. Although the price is somewhat higher, the Vette uses old school technology, and is (IMO) more of a car, becase with everything that Nissan has built into the GTR, almost anyone with a little driving experience can drive the car to its limits. To drive the Corvette to its limits, you are really going to be on top of your game.

 

You need to read more about the GT-R. While it's true that it's easier to drive fast in most ways, that's a LONG ways from being able to say that it's easy to drive to IT'S limits. Simply not true from what I've read. In most cases, I find Motor Trend in left field, and I'm certainly not the only one. So why is it so hard to call BS on their "assumptions" about the GT-R? Why so eager to buy what they say without hesitation? Personally, I think the GT-R is one ugly spud but I totally respect what the car technically represents.

 

The GT-R is easier to drive than say a Z06 or SRT Viper.

That’s what I believe that Silver is saying and is correct. A relative novice will have easier time learning on the GT-R due to AWD and DSG transmission.

 

Any video of the run yet??

 

You are correct. Thats what I was saying.

You will see one soon. Maybe within a week.