http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/04/g...usia/#comments

Although it was a crappy statement, at least they made one. *sigh* Just one of the reasons I can't respect this car....

 

Ain't that a surprise ...

 

So basically GM said "we saw a spike in problems from one particular part and investigated. We found nothing, no problem. Even though output shafts are snapping left and right, we don't see a problem. Carry on."

 

oh no, a "Camaro has problems thread" - this site's gonna get hacked again! lol.

 

They aren't discontinued yet?

lol

 

I posted on that Autoblog threat. I posted that the fellow from GM shouldn't expect satisfaction from member so Camaro5, as they are a HARD BUNCH to get along with. From all the stories I read, about getting banned for no good reason other than having an opinion that the Mustang is as good as their car.

The best part of that Autoblog thread? Someone posted that ists a Tremec problem, and not a GM problem. WRONG!! The same trans is used in other cars (our GT500 for one, the Viper for another) and we have NO problems! GM changed a spec for their car and it bit them in the ***!

 

Exactly. Those boneheads must be blind or stupid. Heck, I'll be really pissed off If my brand new car keeps breaking down every time. GM is at fault for changing the specs of a proven design and not properly testing it before releasing the car to the public. They have no excuse. The car was delayed for almost ten years! Don't tell me they didn't have time to R & D. And they wonder why GM went bankrupt

 

A maro with tranny issues..say it aint so

 

Every Chevy transmission I've ever had from 1988 to 2003 sucked. Why should it be any different now?

<---for Camaro5

 

Here we go again .

I've read all these supposed spec sheets and that "technical bullitin" posted on C5 (theres your first clue of whats not the problem) and find it all to be void on the actual issue of what is breaking and why. The difference in the TR 6060 from the other GM cars that use the TR6060? Gearsets and other internals. Last I heard none of that broke. What broke is this

GM PART # 19178534
CATEGORY: All
PACK QTY: 1
CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $228.17
OUR PRICE: $135.34

Want to know what else uses this exact same part number? The CTS-V only the CTS-V's gearsets is rated at 560 lb ft (I'm sure the G8 uses the same I didn't bother to research it). Yet none of the CTS-V's that use that part (all of them with M6's) have broken them, only a handful of Camaro's have. As far as all the hooplah over the trans rating being just over the engine output, not many of those barking up that tree mentioned that the CTS-V's is rated at only 560 while it produces 550 lb ft, the Z06 is rated 500 while it makes 470 and the base C6 is rated at 430 yet makes 430 yet none of them are having problems. All of these aftermarket tuners have cars putting way more than that on the stock TR 6060's yet supprisingly none have yet failed. Hennessey brags that their HP700's TR6060 is untouched save for the bellhousing. The Autos are the same way the 4L60E's were rated at 300 lb ft max (Stock LS1's exceeded that from the get go), 4L65E 325 lb ft max and 4L80E 400 lb ft max(this trans will withstand well over 600 stock for a long time), yet each have lasted under far more, mine in particular had well over 100 passes at the track yet gave me no problems till at around 150K when the valve body started sticking from alot of manual shifting, no broken shafts, clutches, etc all were still fine.

All this leads me back to one of 2 things as a possible explanation. Either A there was a bad batch of shafts at Tremec sent out or B something in the suspension geometry of this particular car is causing a bind (which could also be a factor given all the tuner cars are lowered changing this) I'm not sure but given its not happened on every SS with the M6 I'm going to lean towards A myself. Blasting on GM about the "rated" capacity on the transmissions as a cause of why an output shaft fails when the same shaft is used on a higher rated trans, is either an excuse to try to falsly proove someone at GM screwed the pooch just because of a brand loyalty. It's got nothing to do with "changing the specs" because the "specs" refer to parts in the gearsets themselves not the output shaft. This output shaft is of the same size and spline count as the one in the super T-56 sold as an upgrade for older 6-speeds and plenty capable of withstanding the Camaro's output and weight (evidenced in the HP700).


Hmm......http://www.lemonauto.com/complaints/1_ford_recalls.htm.....
Ford is recalling 11,134 MY 2009 4X2 ranger vehicles. Some front wheel spindles were improperly manufactured creating the risk that a spindle may fracture during the normal useful life of the truck

Ford is recalling 3,331 MY 2008 E-350 vehicles built with a 138 inch wheel base. The drive shaft may have been manufactured with a slip yoke that has cracks

Those 2 sound strikingly familiar to the output shaft in scope of what is happening to the tremecs. A flaw resulting in possible fracture under "normal" operating. Millions with possibility of fire due to a switch, hundreds of thousands of 5.4's with another unrelated possibility of engine fire due to a cross over hose, hundreds of thousands of mustangs with airbag problems etc etc. Yet a part (output shaft), outsourced by another company, made in a plant in mexico, falls victim to 12 reported Camaro's with the possible problem being an improperly heat treated output shaft (what one owner with the problem was supposedly told) condemns a whole company and a whole car line or that "Camaro Owners" are too dumb to admit? Personally I'd rather deal with a possibility of a broken output shaft than an engine fire #1 cruise control switch, or #2 crossover hose, broken spindles, faulty airbags etc. Maybe I need to tell my wife to get rid of her Escape and forget about getting her CS/GT then..........Naa junk happens.

 

thanks for that post Slims

 

Thanks wasn't trying to sound like a scorned fanboy (I like my wifes Escape but am trying to talk her into trading it for a Sport Trac Adrenalin) but many automatically pointed a finger without knowing all of the details. When I heard output shaft I automatically looked at Tremec because it is not a common part to fail especially on anything stock.

I can slam GM for putting a trans not up to spec in one vehicle in particular, the TBSS. It uses a 4L70E (or 75 cant remember),which in cars, is normally rated to around 350 to 375 lb ft, put behind a 400 lb ft engine in a vehicle that weighs way over 4500 lbs. A 4L85E should have gone in it like the heavy duty trucks. Do any mods to it and launch it hard and it will fail garunteed. Chevy High performance mag and one other proved that when they broke them (internally, not output shafts, that's actually not as common a problem of any trans) with just bolt-ons. Slam that one all ya want, or even the 4L60E with it's abound weaknesses (I bragged on mine and it did well but honestly I was lucky, the 4L60E like the AOD has plenty of weaknesses), but the TR-6060 is a tremec manufactured transmission which was pointed out as probably at fault when the first people broke the story. I have to lean towards eliminating my B possibility as well because I forgot at the time that the vehicles IRS eliminates a changing driveshaft angle with lowering, unlike a live axle. Otherwise I'm pretty sure tremec knew the specs of what it's going behind and would have built it accordingly. Workers get lazy, complacent, forgetful in places like this just like anywhere else. I look at it like I do fast food restaraunt workers how many people have gotten an jacked up order? Just because some people get paid more (or less in the case of workers in plants outside the US) doesn't mean the put more effort into their work all the time.

My only wonder at this time is that if a "batch" of output shafts got improper heat treatment how many is a batch? 12 is not a huge number considering the thousands of them produced so how many are done at a time. How many more are out there in cars that people don't hammer on, yet if they sell them, will get sold to someone who will beat on them?

Oh and if you want a good 5th gen site for info, come to mine (not as in owner but as in regular poster), not C5. Sure we have a few fanboi's but no where near as bad as C5 and we (mods, yes I am one) don't ban unless you are an obvious troll and cause problems repeatedly. We also have quite a many level headed people that respect cars of of all makes, one guy has a GT500, Challlenger SRT-8, and a Camaro.

 

Slim, you forgot to post what site you are a member of. Also, aren't there quite a bit more than 12 Camaro's with broken tranny's? Not trying to start caca or anything, but I just kept thinking that it was a pretty common problem on the manual trannys...maybe I am wrong?

 

That's the number GM reported in one of their statements, could be more I don't know for sure, that's what they said and what I based it off of.

I didn't post the site because many forums shun that I was planning to pm it to those interested.

 

There are definitely more than 12 camaro's with broken output shafts and some half shalfs thrown in there btw.
I can get you almost every link if needed, and that's just people on forums. but let's not have to go there

 

It's really a non issue unless I was trying to claim that only x amount did it and tried to stand behind as a fact. I found the number searching for part numbers mostly and IIRC it was from someone who quoted a email they got or something from a GM rep. I already said I didn't know and even wondered how many myself. I went ahead and perused c5 myself and found 14 from their list so that's more than 12 there. Even read some of what they had posted otherwise like the whole 12k to 25k vin etc. I investigated more based on the actual problem and differences in the transmissions are. Halfshafts are entirely different too and haven't even tried to look it up yet. If you have all this info and did all that research then you knew about the heat treatment being pegged as the issue as well then too. I pointed out the cause of the problem everything else was ancillary.

 

I'm interested on the forum, if you don't mind I like F bodies as much as Mustangs When I was shopping for a second car, I was looking Firebirds, Camaro Z28s, and sn95s. And I would love to have a Firehawk

 

One thing's for sure, no one can call Slims00ls1z28 a fanboy. Thanks for the info, Slim!

 

True, he's always been my favorite camaro guy.

I just want him to be converted and get 5.0 vert instead of the SS vert he plans on getting.

 

Thanks I try not to be, though it does sometime peak it's head in .
Actually I am now waiting on an official confirmation or denial of the Z28. If I can hear it from the horses mouth instead of some "official scoop from (insert car rag here)" it will plant my decision. Oh well at least a year longer to wait, I'll just have to settle for the GTO for now .

There will be an S197 in my garage someday in the next few years. It's up to the wife whether or not it's an 05-09 CS/GT or a 11' 5.0. She's up in the air about the new stang. She likes the sequential lights and front end but not the rear and she doesn't want a vert period. Same reason she's wanting me to get a HT Z28 if they release it.