Even as the Senate looks set to kill the auto bailout bill, comes this new report >>

 

It's sorta looking like it will be the Detroit One--or to be politically correct, the Dearborn One. Chrysler doesn't seem to have anything going that would enable surviving after the bail-out money (if approved) runs out, and GM burns through cash faster than a celebrity mistress. Ford might suffer if the two weaker manufacturers close up shop because the subcontractors will hafta raise their charges since they'll not be able to spread their operating expenses among Ford, GM, and Chrysler any more.

It's always smartest to produce the entire product yourself--farming out subcomponents makes you vulnerable to the fortunes--or misfortunes--of the subcontractors you depend upon. It may not be the most cost-effective way, but it's the best way in the long run...

 

Well I don't think I am alone when I say they should not be bailed out.

 

No bailout. I fully admit bad things are going to happen either way. But the bailout and a car czar is just bad for eveyone. I wouldn't trust a government appointed dog catcher czar. Government is not the answer folks, it is the problem.

 

I just can't help but think this problem may never have happened if Unions stopped being so greedy. I can't understand why they demand more and more money each year. Heck, I've seen guys that work in the auto industry that make more money than a family doctor and that just makes no sense to me as to how someone installing tires on a car can make more than someone in the medical field.

 

Union mentality in my opinion is get whatever you can and as much of it as you can as soon as you can. This mentality is responsible at least in large part for where the "big 3" are now. It's too late now, but back in the late 80s when the Japanese big 3 (Toyota, Nissan, & Honda) were really starting to make inroads, the union crap should've been killed then. Instead we waited another 20 years and look where we are. The union automotive worker will be lucky to have a job in 2009 let alone a union job. These guys need to learn to live on 50k a year like the rest of us or America will be out of the car business.

 

A bail-out only makes sense if it promotes the survival of the recipient. I think the problem that the bail-out bill is having is--not everyone is convinced the money will save the auto industry.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...64/1148/AUTO01

There are more than a few that think Chrysler will not survive, even if handed the requested money. If the bail-out provides money and Chrysler tanks, the government (i.e. that's us) is out a wad of money--with little, or no return.

 

I hope you guys like driving Toyotas, 'cause if you think any of these companies are gonna magically rise from the ashes of this downturn with NO help, you're smokin' some serious gunja. Buh-bye American auto industry...hello Hondoyotamobiles for everyone.

I guess it's OK for Europe to bail out its auto industry, though, eh? (That's right, they're in trouble, too - so it ain't just policy failures at the Big 2.5.) And BTW, it's not a bailout, it's a bridge loan...big difference.

It'll make a great new slogan for the Repugnican Party: "We killed the American auto industry, and we're proud of it!" Good luck getting back into power again before...oh, say 2050.

 

A bridge loan until they can build more subcompacts that no one wants at $1.50/ gallon. I would be OK with the loan if it didn't let the government tell the big 2.5 what they could produce. I think a bridge loan from the government seals their fate too. I think its lose/lose either way. The only reason the dems are wanting to do this is to preserve their unions. If they'd bust the unions and then give them 15 billion as a loan I'd be all for it Hollywood.

 

I thought I heard today some where they got the bucks ?

 

Screw GM. Screw Cerberus/Chrysler. Loan it ALL to Ford, the only domestic fit to survive. Ford will build the cars appropriate to today's realities and will pay back that loan with interest, and probably pay it back early.
GM & Chrysler will be back for more hand-outs within months of getting those Treasury (that would be YOUR) funds that they'll squander on SUVS, trucks, Hummers, Camaros, & Challengers. Oh, and they'll use one percent of those funds to add nav systems to the Volt mules...

 

Can't. The success of the whole North American auto market is tied to their survival.

 

Fixed.

 

No it isn't. Get real. Nature abhors a vacuum. It will be filled.

And yes, it would appear that we all like driving our Hondoyotamobiles... or the big three wouldn't be where they are, would they?

No, adrenalin, you are definitely NOT alone... I hope that congress and the president (whichever it is) doesn't give them a dime. Shouldn't have given the housing banks any either.

Again... nature abhors a vacuum... it would be fixed *by itself*. It's called a free market. Throwing money at the makers doesn't help that.... but throwing targeted money (meaning it's a coupon, or voucher or some such that *must be spent at the store intended*) at the consumer? Possibly. A hybrid of throwing some to the makers to float them for a couple months until the targeted money thrown about to the customer might be ok.

A tax rebate is not the answer. It cannot stand. I myself put all my extra "winnings" from the IRS into my savings. Who benefited from that? Nobody. Except me and the bank, of course. You cannot just give people money and let them decide where to spend it. You have to have a premade decision "you will buy big 3 or you will not buy."

That is the only way this will be fixed. Or one of them dies outright. Which is what I predict will happen regardless... they make crap nobody wants at two of them, overall.

/Wonders how many would still take the "not buy" option if presented with it...

 

Hard to buy american when there isn't anything american to buy, houtex. I've always had an american car, more by circumstance than any real need for an american car. That vacuum that nature abhors so much? It wouldn't be filled by americans anymore. It would be filled with japanese, germans, koreans and soon chinese. If those three go down, there will never be another american car company, simple as that. And I don't count things like panoz or niche builders. If they go into bankruptcy and liquidation, who do you really think is going to be buying all that infrastrcuture up? I tell you who isn't, anybody from this country.

 

Well yes infact, I do like driving Toyota's. As long as the top 3 keep charging what they do for cars (which we know is a direct relation to what they have to pay their workers) I have no problem buying a Toyota, Nissan, etc when it saves me money. Don't sit there either and tell me what I have to drive. I have the right to buy whatever I want thank you very much.

 

I am still surprised by how many people think that by giving the Big 3 money to survive is going to fix everything. It isn't. Way too much is being outsourced overseas and it usually is always for the same reason....cheap labour. Why do you think the automotive industry should be different. You either have to lower wages or lay off people. Picture a restaurant owner. Times are tough. User to sell angus steaks at $16.00 a plate. Hardly gets customers yet he raises the price to $24.00 and replaces the steak with a cheaper product. Do you think he will stay in business long if he did that and kept all of his staff. I know it might not make sense but how long do you think they can survive when the UAW keeps demanding more money. Someone has to pay for it some where and it is the buyer that forks out the extra cash. Less people have money to burn these days. If I look at 2 cars, 1 made in American Made (Canada/USA) and 1 import (Toyota, honda etc) I look at looks, safety, engine, etc etc etc. Then the price tag. If they are basically the same but one will save me 5 grand, well, that is the one that wins. Doesn't matter to me who made it.

 

I owned a Celica GTS in the late 80s. It was a terrific car - the interior was more tightly screwed together than my current Stang, judging from the dash rattles I've developed after only a year-and-a-half.

But Toyotas are not the automotive panacea everyone makes them out to be, especially not now that their quality has slumped. Meanwhile, the quality of Ford products (a few dash rattles aside) has gone way up (Ford turned a profit first quarter of this year and probably would have continued to do so all year had it not been for the economic downturn). Yes, the Big 2.3145769 need to address this labor issue, I agree...but not being willing to help them in their hour of need is simply not an option, and I would suggest you step back and look at the big picture - the REALLY big picture - that myself and many others have detailed numerous times in recent threads. Bottom line: this situation is TOO big and economically perilous to worry about the "luxury" of whether or not one is generally opposed to bailouts.

I won't have to. The decision will be made for you. I hope Hondoyota comes out with something to replace the Mustang so that when you're back in the market for a new performance car in a few years, there'll be an alternative for you (and all the rest of us).


Well, yes you do...and you're welcome very much.

 

Hmmm, a Porshe or a 350Z. You're right. It is a tough decision.

 

One wonders why you didn't buy one of those to begin with then.

Hondoyota doesn't build Porsches, or 350Z's. I'm talking affordable performance cars here.