rhumb

On the heels of the 2015 Stang reveal is the 2015 BMW M3/4. Some pertinent details:

New engine: I6, 430hp, 406 ft/lbs torques (very similar to current 5.0 levels...)
Twin turbo, DI, variable cam timing and lift.
Claimed 25% reduction in stink and thirst.

New DCT and wriggly-stick trannies, the former with an extra cog and the latter with rev matching.

Active M Differential that can go from 0% to 100% locked.

Steering goes electric.

176lbs lighter than current M3.

0-60: 3.9 clicks for the DCT, 4.1 for the wriggle stick.

All looks very interesting, but I think the new 2015 Stang really can complicate things for BMW and the M4. Even the current model comes close to matching the current M3s numbers. However, the current Stang's impressive numbers were undercut by its pedestrian interior, features and clomping Conestoga axle -- all of which have been addressed by the new model.

So how will BMW be able to justify what undoubtedly be a much higher sticker now that the Mustang is at long last reaching its potential as a working man's M car? Ford hasn't even rolled out its own "M" equivalents, the SVT/Shelby models...

Evil_Capri

I'm loving the M3 . .

StangMahn

The exterior looks good as always, but it's been the interiors the past 7-8 years that I have disliked. I want to see those.

NC14GT

Love 'em to death but you need to be near a dealership to own one. There is always something. No big deal under warranty, except time, but having owned a very low mileage (13,000 miles) 3 series in the past I will tell you that they 'nickel and dime' you to death with far too many sensors and assorted tweaks needed almost constantly. It wasn't just my '02 car. The BMW forums are full of the same stories. I don't live near a dealership so owning a 'new' one is out of the question. Would I get one if I did live near one? You bet! Incredible performers and handle as well as anything out there.

rhumb

Pretty true, if more so for 1990's-early 2000's versions. All upscale German cars seemed to go through a phase where they added a lot more stuff and performance but sort of let the quality of the little unseen bits slide as a consequence. This was true of Audi, BMW, and Merc, and to some degree with Porsche and certainly with VWs.

I think they really got deservedly dinged for that approach and that they couldn't get away with, long term, scrimping on underlying quality to plump up the specs and options sheets. The warranty costs were probably killing them in the end anyways (might as well have spent up front for better quality engineering and materials for the unseen bits), never mind the major ding on their brand reputations.

The newer models seem much better in that regard and while perhaps not cars you can buy, drive and ignore like most Asian and, now, American brands, certainly not the yawning money bits the earlier models could be.

I think this could be a major selling point for the 2015 Mustang over similar BMWs, Audis and Mercs, i.e., now we've mostly matched you in large part on tech, refinement and specs but will be $10-20K cheaper and won't kill you on maintainence. I think, too, if Ford, or Lincoln, comes out with a four-door version of this platform -- and no, stop hyperventalating, it won't be a four-door "Mustang," maybe a Maverick or something -- then they'll really be turning the heat up on the Euro, and Asian, premium brands.

Dave07997S

First off the later BMWs I have owned have been flawless. In particular my 2011 M3, not once other than for service has the car had to go back to the dealer for repairs. In fact the E9X M cars are one of the most reliable cars made right now for sport GT cars.

This was the case for the pre 2000 BMWs but not the later ones. For those of you who think Ford will fair better are in for a rude awakening. The Ford Escape is on its 5th recall, 4 of them are fire related. My 2007 Ford Focus that I bought new has left me stranded 3 times now for cooling and charging issues.

I just bought my wife a new 2014 Ford Escape Titanium 2.0L (stayed away from the 1.6) and pray that this car will be OK.

I for one dont normally hold on to cars for more than 3-4 years, I had my 04 E46M3 for 4 years and it was flawless the whole time.

Also, keep in mind that BMW pays for all maintenence the first 4yrs/50k miles. When you factor that most people who buy these kind of cars want the latest greatest its really a non issue as most sell or lease turn in with in 5 years.

Regarding the quoted performance numbers of 3.9 and 4.1 0-60 times. When the E92 M3 was first released BMW quoted 0-60 in 4.5 for the DCT and 4.7 for the MT car. In 2011 Car and Driver did 0-60 in 3.9 with a DCT car, and Road and Track did 0-60 in 4.1 with a MT car. In other words BMW is very conservative on performance numbers. Meaning that the new M3/4 is going to be a beast.

Ford is going to have their work cut out for them, its doable but I cant wait to see the comparisons.

Dave

Dave07997S

Ill raise you with the M4 pic...

Dave07997S

This looks pretty nice to me..

Gabe

Overwrought styling, expensive, joystick shifter, and automatically being labeled as a douche bag once behind the wheel of a BMW .... all downsides to owning one of these.

And if you guys don't believe me about the douche bag thing, pay attention to BMW drivers and see how they drive their broken-blinker crap-boxes ...

Evil_Capri

Have a few friends who own or have owned M3s or M5s . . . perfectly fine individuals.

Stage_3

I would take either one of those cars. Both are beautiful.

Stage_3

Nasty cars too. Yes please!

• 425 HP from 5500-7300 RPM
• 406 LB-FT torque from 1850-5500 RPM
• 0-60 MPH: 3.9 seconds (DCT) / 4.1 seconds (manual)
• 7600 RPM rev limiter

• 7 Speed M Double Clutch Transmission (M-DCT) with Drivelogic
  • Third generation M-DCT
  • Integrated Launch Control function
  • Stability Clutch Control opens clutch when car is understeering to bring it back into line
  • Drivelogic modes can be selected for more comfortable, economy focused or sportier characteristics
• 6 Speed Manual Transmission
  • Robust double-plate clutch
  • More compact and quieter than predecessor
  • 26.4 pounds (12kg) lighter than predecessor
  • New carbon friction linings in synchronizer rings increases shift comfort
  • Dry sump lubrication
  • Automatic throttle blip downshifts

Evil_Capri

I'm drooling over the sedan . . . Love it!

Mr. V

I owned a 87 325is for 8 years. My parents owned it for 5 years before that and were the original owners. Until the battery cable, that ran to the trunk where the battery was, wore out and the car caught fire, it was pretty much trouble free. I think BMWs are as well made as any cars. I must admit that my 2 favorite cars are mustangs and m3s. The e30 m3 is pure magic. I wouldn't trade in a mustang for an m3 been if I could afford it. I can't. If I could afford an m3, I'd hopefully be able to afford a mustang too.

Stage_3

Yeah, they both are pretty bad *** machines.

Dave07997S

Totally agreed, a friend of my wife had a 1990 325is Conv. that had over 200k miles on the clock. It did at its later stages started to have electrical gremlins but it had 200k miles on the clock. She now has a 2013 328i, she loves the car but she misses the 1990 32is.

Dave

Dave07997S

LOL...as if Mustang drivers dont have their own baggage. Please...

Stage_3

Saw my first M4 in person today, finally!
WOW!!!! Disgustingly beautiful. What an aggressive looking car. Had the upgraded M wheels and the M brake package. It was white, not sure if it was the straight white or the one with the metallic in it.
As he left the plaza, he easily grabbed 2 second with a slight chirp. Couldn't tell if it was the original exhaust or aftermarket, such as Dinan or so. It was a little loud, but not obnoxious.
I'm guessing it was EASILY a 90K car. EASILY.

Knight

I hadn't seen the interior before. Is it just be or are modern interiors looking very gaudy?

DarrenGT

The problem with BMW's here in Vancouver is they are EVERYWHERE! and 90% of the owners don't know how to drive them.
There's ZERO exclusivity to bmw here now. more common than civics

in the word's of a Dragon "for that reason, I'm out"