bob

Dont get hung up on peak numbers, its the average HP/TQ across the board that gets the job done then its on to how the car is geared and how well it gets the power down. If GM's bigger engine puts down more average power and it can get the power down better allowing the ZL1 to run more aggressive gearing then the GT500 will have a tough time.

This could very well be why we hear rumors about a 5.8L V8 for the GT500 since that would up average power in the engine to go along with its higher peak power.

One thing is for sure, that porker can really take advantage of the 285/305 tire combo since it creates a larger contact patch with that extra 300 pounds to fat.

Knight

No doubts the GT500 will have a tough time, the heavier, less powerful cts-v runs better times than the GT500.

Overboost

Agreed. The one other measure is power to weight. If you make more power down low and have less mass to move, provided you can put the power down (which is a big question), then it seems like a higher hp/lb ratio will always win.

Right now the CTS-V and GT500 are close, but I think that might change with the rumored 5.8.

hi5.0

Sounds like the LSA's displacement advantage will make the difference then. "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." Bow Tie fans can't use "but the Cobra/GT 500 has FI" as an excuse anymore even though Ford always had smaller displacement motors. Camaro following the Mustang - again. See if either a Ford TT 5.0 or a "Coyote"-style 5.8 materializes...

bt4

Yes and no. Both are fast, capable cars. Yes, the CTS-V shows a quicker 0-60 and a quicker quarter in some tests. But by a very slim margin. But that margin disappears quickly once the GT500 is in motion.

Check out the road course door-to-door test between the Caddy and the GT500 from Road and Track. On a 1.5 mile road course (Mountain Motorsports Ranch, in Nevada) the GT500 turned in a 1.53 second quicker lap time than the CTS-V. http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...cadillac-cts-v

The GT500 is hampered by traction issues on the launch, hence slightly slower times in the 0-60 and quarter. The specs from the test show that the CTS-V hit 0-60 in 4.1, vs 4.3 for the GT500. But 0-100 the GT500 takes only 8.9 seconds vs. 9.2 seconds for the CTS-V. (Think about that--that is a .5 swing from 60-100.) Once up and moving the GT500 blows past the Caddy on the road course. The 4300-lb weight of the CTS-V is hard to overcome, even with its strong motor and the nicely tuned suspension.

I expect more of the same with the new Camaro--I have no doubt it will be fast--probably very fast. However, I am not sure how much less (if any) it will weigh than the CTS-V. The current SS weighs as much as the GT500 and I doubt Chevy can add a large supercharger and the necessary plumbing without adding considerable weight to the nose of the car. The suspension team will no doubt have to earn their money on this one to
manage that much weight and power.

Zastava_101

How is CTS-V less powerful than Shelby GT500?

fdjizm

You mean the less powerful 556hp cts-v.

Boomer

And all 5.4s are created equal too right?
Assumption is the mother of all ***ups.

bob

I wonder what they might have done to the LSA going into the Camaro? Well at least on the recipocating side? Maybe not forged but upgraded powdered metal bits and pieces?

fdjizm

We are of course talking about good examples of both motors, any motor can let go at anytime but the internals of the LSA are not equal to the internals of the 5.4 (leaving out random disasters)

Boomer

If you were talking about the CTS-V LSA that is out CURRENTLY.
But since this car isn't OUT yet...

All I'm saying is don't assume that you can't put a pulley on it and gain some power, based on anything currently out on the market right now.

Knight

Sorry I meant less powerful than the ZL1 not the Gt500.

Comparing ZL1 to CTS-V. ZL1 will weigh less and have more power than the CTS-V.

CTS-V running better 1/4 mile times than the GT500 therefore ZL1 will run even faster times so the new GT500 has its work cut out for it.

fdjizm

The gt500 traps 2mph higher than the cts-v, a good driver on the gt500 can outrun the cts-v on the strip. Trap speed definitely tells a story.

Blackbird.

This is the modern muscle car war...

Except it's pretty much just Ford and Chevy, Dodge got left in the dust haha.

MARZ

Yikes, this again. I remember when the production Camaro was officially unveiled and some members came out with the, "Well, the Pontiac G8 is essentially the same car, and it handles like...," or, "Well, the Pontiac G8 is essentially the same car, and its acceleration figures are...," suggesting the production Camaro should, in theory, trounce the heavier G8's numbers. At least from a handling perspective, theory =/= truth, so I'm going to wait until the ZL1 is tested before making any definitive conclusions about how it'll perform. And how do we know the ZL1 will feature a significant weight advantage, if any, when compared to the Cadillac CTS-V coupe? That's just another guess that has yet to be confirmed.

I have a feeling Ford isn't going to sit on their hands and lose ground (can they lose ground to a car that's five years late?) and let Chevrolet receive all the accolades with the ZL1 this year like they did when the Camaro first came out (the new 3.7L and 5.0L engines came out a year later).

Oh, yeah, and I agree with what's been said above. The GT500 doesn't have a power problem -- it's putting down that power that's the problem.

2010MustangGT

The section width on the ZL1's rears vs that of the current GT500 is greater by 4/5ths an inch. so 1.6" overall. Which may not sound like much, but it is accountable- and has some cause and effect on the performance I'm sure.

Ford needs to go big or go home in the tire department with a tire that suits the amount of HP the car throws down. Ala viper.

bob

They are going home then. You simply cant stuff a tire that big or even close to that big under this chassis and still meet whatever requirements Ford has for the vehicle in terms of tire clearence without some sort of widebody modification and then your into a whole nother ball of string.

You've got balance the design so it doesn't look like some clapped out race car, maybe just new rear quarters maybe rear quarters and front fenders, retuned suspension, et al. Maybe you go across the board with this? Maybe just the GT500 but it all comes down to alot of money for a car thats going to be around for just a model year or two

bt4

Good question--nothing that I have read indicates the new ZL1 will weigh considerably less than the CTS-V, (except posts on C5 by zealous fans that claim the new ZL1 will weigh no more than the SS!)

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/2012...nds-74133.html

I think this article offers a fair assessment of the weight gain, which was derived, according to the writer, by information GM flashed during a presentation concerning the power-to-weight ratio: 7.24-lbs per HP. With 580-hp, the weight of the car would be 4199.2-lbs. Depending on tires, wheels, options, that could vary, but I expect that is a realistic estimate.

Overboost

I'm surprised that they're going to put the Cup tires on the ZL1. With an 80 treadwear rating, they stick, but they don't last for much. I've been told that when they were using the tires for validation on the ZR1, they'd last a tank of gas. At $900+ a pop, that's a bit ridiculous.

I wouldn't mind seeing the PZero Corsas on a track pack for the GT500.

Knight

Like a lot of manufactures (yes you shelby gt350) have been throwing on some really sticky tires to boost magazine reveiws, even though the GT500 might do better than the ZL1 on the same tires the magazines will say how the ZL1 is faster 1/4 mile, brakes in less distance and slaloms faster mph.

They don't care that the owner will need to buy new tires in 6 months, as long as it wins the comparison tests.