Unfilled '05 Orders Carried Over to '06
#62
Thank God my plans are to get an '08 Model yr. Mustang. Hopefully by then this mess will be history. I say if you're waiting on your GT order and you see a GT that you could live with on the lot and the price is what you could live with, I'd say jump on it. The best advice is to wait until Sept. '05. Then you'll see great deals on these '05 models. They probably won't have what you ordered, but at least you would have one. Not to knock any '05 V6 owners because I owned a V6 Vert in '00 and loved it while I had it. If Ford thinks that a '05 V6 model is great alternative to a '05 GT model, I'd like to have the drugs their taking. No way is the V6 close to the GT in performance. 100+hp tells me it's night and day from a V6. Drove both '05 V6 and GT and my opinion is the V6 is no way close to the GT. Yeah, same cosmetic options, but there's no way in Hades I'd settle for a V6 over a GT if my order wasn't coming in. I'd rather purchase a GT off the lot then settle on a V6 that has what I wanted in my ordered GT. Like I said before, I owned a '00 V6 Vert and loved it while I had it, but when I got my '02 GT Vert, I knew I'd never go back to a V6. But that's just my opinion.
#63
Originally posted by TomServo92@April 6, 2005, 12:11 PM
Exactly. And given the information they had 2-3 years ago (when the production planning was started), they had no way of knowing if the new retro-themed Mustang would be a hit or fall flat on it's face. It's really easy to point fingers at the marketing group knowing what we know now.
Having a another production just sitting there waiting to see IF the Mustang would exceed sales forecast costs money that most likely is needed elsewhere.
I'm not saying it is easy to ramp up production, I'm just saying that I think Ford should have been better prepared if demand was more than past years. Its like people said, how could you not expect it to be greater than the last couple years' GT demand, that is a nice car, but nothing like an 05 GT.
I just think Ford dropped the ball here on their estimates and ability to meet greater demand.
Exactly. And given the information they had 2-3 years ago (when the production planning was started), they had no way of knowing if the new retro-themed Mustang would be a hit or fall flat on it's face. It's really easy to point fingers at the marketing group knowing what we know now.
Having a another production just sitting there waiting to see IF the Mustang would exceed sales forecast costs money that most likely is needed elsewhere.
I'm not saying it is easy to ramp up production, I'm just saying that I think Ford should have been better prepared if demand was more than past years. Its like people said, how could you not expect it to be greater than the last couple years' GT demand, that is a nice car, but nothing like an 05 GT.
I just think Ford dropped the ball here on their estimates and ability to meet greater demand.
2004 - 112K
2005 - 192K
This year sales have increased by 80K units and this represents 1.71 times the previous year's totals. But...
1973 - 134K
1974 - 385K
That was an increase of 251K units (more than 3 times the 2005 increase) and represented 2.87 times the previous year's totals. Yes, Mustang production almost tripled in one year.
You can't convince me that Ford expected the 1974 to sell that well since it hadn't sold that well during the previous six years. They quickly adapted and there was no shortage. I bought a loaded Mach1 during the summer of 1974 and had no problem getting exactly what I wanted.
If Ford knew how to do it in 1974, surely they still remember how to do it in 2005. They simply refused to. I've read that the production capacity for the Mustang assembly line is 1000 units per day. That comes out to 365K units for the year. (They're sharing plant production with the Mazda 6, not the same assembly line.) So why has production been so far below capacity? Because Ford wouldn't spend the money to bring the line up to full speed - things like hiring extra workers, paying overtime and paying premiums for materials that are in short supply. They are gambling that hacked off potential customers will patiently wait for months. Maybe they're right.
#64
Yes but in 1974 they didnt have alot of the stuff in the cars they have now...ABS, air bags, computers, fuel injection..on and on. If they could flip a switch and pump all these cars out dont oyu think they would??? It isnt as easy as some are making it sound.
#65
Legacy TMS Member
Originally posted by 74Mach1+April 7, 2005, 7:12 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(74Mach1 @ April 7, 2005, 7:12 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-TomServo92@April 6, 2005, 12:11 PM
Exactly. And given the information they had 2-3 years ago (when the production planning was started), they had no way of knowing if the new retro-themed Mustang would be a hit or fall flat on it's face. It's really easy to point fingers at the marketing group knowing what we know now.
Having a another production just sitting there waiting to see IF the Mustang would exceed sales forecast costs money that most likely is needed elsewhere.
I'm not saying it is easy to ramp up production, I'm just saying that I think Ford should have been better prepared if demand was more than past years. Its like people said, how could you not expect it to be greater than the last couple years' GT demand, that is a nice car, but nothing like an 05 GT.
I just think Ford dropped the ball here on their estimates and ability to meet greater demand.
Exactly. And given the information they had 2-3 years ago (when the production planning was started), they had no way of knowing if the new retro-themed Mustang would be a hit or fall flat on it's face. It's really easy to point fingers at the marketing group knowing what we know now.
Having a another production just sitting there waiting to see IF the Mustang would exceed sales forecast costs money that most likely is needed elsewhere.
I'm not saying it is easy to ramp up production, I'm just saying that I think Ford should have been better prepared if demand was more than past years. Its like people said, how could you not expect it to be greater than the last couple years' GT demand, that is a nice car, but nothing like an 05 GT.
I just think Ford dropped the ball here on their estimates and ability to meet greater demand.
2004 - 112K
2005 - 192K
This year sales have increased by 80K units and this represents 1.71 times the previous year's totals. But...
1973 - 134K
1974 - 385K
That was an increase of 251K units (more than 3 times the 2005 increase) and represented 2.87 times the previous year's totals. Yes, Mustang production almost tripled in one year.
You can't convince me that Ford expected the 1974 to sell that well since it hadn't sold that well during the previous six years. They quickly adapted and there was no shortage. I bought a loaded Mach1 during the summer of 1974 and had no problem getting exactly what I wanted.
If Ford knew how to do it in 1974, surely they still remember how to do it in 2005. They simply refused to. I've read that the production capacity for the Mustang assembly line is 1000 units per day. That comes out to 365K units for the year. (They're sharing plant production with the Mazda 6, not the same assembly line.) So why has production been so far below capacity? Because Ford wouldn't spend the money to bring the line up to full speed - things like hiring extra workers, paying overtime and paying premiums for materials that are in short supply. They are gambling that hacked off potential customers will patiently wait for months. Maybe they're right.
[/b][/quote]
It was a different world in 1974. Ford didn't have the economic pressures from overseas they have now. They can't afford to have extra capacity just sitting around. In case you didn't know, that costs money. On top of that, I would expect sales to start tailing off over the next couple years. Another production line may not be needed in 2-3 years.
Also, you're completely wrong about the Mustang and Mazda6 only sharing a plant. They do share the same assembly line. It's a flexible line and can assemble both cars at the same time. You'll see a mix of Mazda6s and Mustangs coming down the line at the same time.
As far as not running the line at full speed - wrong again. The production capacity of AAI is around 250-260K per year. They're scheduled to produce around 192K Mustangs and 70K Mazdas. That puts them at 262K total for the year - full capacity.
#66
Originally posted by Arioch+April 6, 2005, 10:05 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Arioch @ April 6, 2005, 10:05 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>I dropped by the dealership on the way home and showed my salesman a printout of this letter. Perhaps not surprisingly, he hadn't seen it before. He asked to keep a copy of it, and remarked that he could see why I was concerned. But of course, the managers had gone home for the day and there was no one there who could speak to the issue, or even give me an order number.
It always amuses me when we are better informed than the retailers are. I understand that official channels are clogged and management often keeps you in the dark, but can't a salesman afford an Internet connection?
I appreciate the sentiment, but I currently drive a '98 GT. I don't have much use for a 200 HP V6.
<!--QuoteBegin-PACETTR
We got the same memo (Southwest Region). We don't currently have any sold orders. Who wants an 05?
It always amuses me when we are better informed than the retailers are. I understand that official channels are clogged and management often keeps you in the dark, but can't a salesman afford an Internet connection?
Originally posted by Sam80266@
At least take a V6 out for a test drive and see how it is? Click on the link in my sig for a sample.
At least take a V6 out for a test drive and see how it is? Click on the link in my sig for a sample.
<!--QuoteBegin-PACETTR
We got the same memo (Southwest Region). We don't currently have any sold orders. Who wants an 05?
[/b][/quote]
PM me if you are serious...
#67
Originally posted by 74Mach1@April 7, 2005, 7:12 AM
It seems to be hard for a lot of people on this forum to admit that Ford can do anything wrong, but the 2005 Mustang "shortage" is completely their fault.
It seems to be hard for a lot of people on this forum to admit that Ford can do anything wrong, but the 2005 Mustang "shortage" is completely their fault.
The main thing I was trying to point out was that Ford screwed up on the % of GTs produced, and they haven't done much to fix it. I know they have increased procution, but they haven't increased the % of GTs being produced. There is great potential that a large number of GT orders are not getting filled on the '05. To say get a V6 or wait till 06 and not be price protected is the WRONG answer from Ford for these unlucky people.
Ford needs to lure customers back that are buying imports. Domestic manufacturers are losing market share at a pretty scary pace. Ford's customer service stinks as this situation shows and this is one of the main reasons they are losing market share.
Again, I'm not trying to bash Ford, I'm just upset about the status of my order. I also want to see Ford and the American car companies do well, but until they do better at customer service I don't see this happening. A lot of people on this board are die-hard Ford fans, and that is fine. But there are also some unbiased opinions and points of view that are valid from others.
Ok, sorry to carry on, maybe I'll call the robot lady tomorrow and I'll be something other than C/U
#68
Legacy TMS Member
Originally posted by moc1976+April 7, 2005, 8:33 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(moc1976 @ April 7, 2005, 8:33 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-74Mach1@April 7, 2005, 7:12 AM
It seems to be hard for a lot of people on this forum to admit that Ford can do anything wrong, but the 2005 Mustang "shortage" is completely their fault.
It seems to be hard for a lot of people on this forum to admit that Ford can do anything wrong, but the 2005 Mustang "shortage" is completely their fault.
The main thing I was trying to point out was that Ford screwed up on the % of GTs produced, and they haven't done much to fix it. I know they have increased procution, but they haven't increased the % of GTs being produced. There is great potential that a large number of GT orders are not getting filled on the '05. To say get a V6 or wait till 06 and not be price protected is the WRONG answer from Ford for these unlucky people.
Ford needs to lure customers back that are buying imports. Domestic manufacturers are losing market share at a pretty scary pace. Ford's customer service stinks as this situation shows and this is one of the main reasons they are losing market share.
Again, I'm not trying to bash Ford, I'm just upset about the status of my order. I also want to see Ford and the American car companies do well, but until they do better at customer service I don't see this happening. A lot of people on this board are die-hard Ford fans, and that is fine. But there are also some unbiased opinions and points of view that are valid from others.
Ok, sorry to carry on, maybe I'll call the robot lady tomorrow and I'll be something other than C/U
[/b][/quote]
I'm not saying Ford is perfect. But I think they are being unfairly slammed for making what they saw as an appropriate business decision given the information they had to work with 2-3 years ago. If they had assumed 250K sales per year and it didn't do any better than previous years, they'd be in a world of hurt, having to give away Mustangs with big incentives (i.e. the GTO).
Again, I go back to how can they increase the percantage of GTs if they (meaning Ford and their suppliers) don't have the production capacity to produce the increased number of GT parts? It baffles me that some of you can't grasp the concept that these parts don't just magically appear in the warehouse. I have no doubt that Ford is producing GTs at the highest possible rate that they can given the number of GT parts they have available.
#69
Its not about fault, it is about blame.
The only thing I think Ford could have handled better was the filling of older orders. Its easy for people to say that Ford should have some theoretical "plan" if this happens but why should they? Why hurt the profit margin? I know it stinks.
I keep thinking back to the PT cruiser. People were paying big markups, then when the production was ramped up, there were hundreds sitting on the lots not making any money.
I don't blame Ford for not spending millions on ramping up production. Why throw away the money? Next thing you know is that the GT Deluxe will have a base price of 30K to recoupe what they lost to make a few thousandd extra cars.
The only thing I think Ford could have handled better was the filling of older orders. Its easy for people to say that Ford should have some theoretical "plan" if this happens but why should they? Why hurt the profit margin? I know it stinks.
I keep thinking back to the PT cruiser. People were paying big markups, then when the production was ramped up, there were hundreds sitting on the lots not making any money.
I don't blame Ford for not spending millions on ramping up production. Why throw away the money? Next thing you know is that the GT Deluxe will have a base price of 30K to recoupe what they lost to make a few thousandd extra cars.
#70
And while there percentage remains the same of 37% after ramoing up production it could also be due to the increase in v-6 sales. If v-6 sales climb in tandom it will always remain at around the same percentage. I am frustrated as much as the next person, although I havent been waiting long compared to some of you, but I do understand what goes into making these things and it is a nightmare. If they could magically have a new line tomorrow the testing and working out the bugs of the equipment and new employees needed alone would take a while. This is what is scary about us losing manufacturing jobs to overseas. If we lose the ability to produce nececities like food, clothes, etc. in this country and suddenly the country producing them has a tiff with us we are screwed. Once the ability to produce the goods in this country is gone we cant get it back easily. The workers move onto to other careers, retire, die, machinery is gone, ability to even make the aurtomation is gone...you get the picture. It is a huge snowball effect. And as I said before, if you can learn to make a widget, in time you can learn how to make centrifuges and nukes. it is scary.
#71
"The best advice is to wait until Sept. '05. Then you'll see great deals on these '05 models. "
I'm sorry TrueBlueCajun but I think that is the worst advice that I have ever seen given on this forum. With talk of thousands of GT orders not getting built at all as 05s, there will be no deals on GTs. No price protection, orders not carried over, big price increase probably on the 06, what part of that leads you to believe that a new 05 GT sitting on a lot in September is going to be a bargain price? End of year closeout on a Focus maybe but on a GT? Maybe they will knock it down to MSRP! I just can't agree with you at all on that one! IMHO, of course.
I'm sorry TrueBlueCajun but I think that is the worst advice that I have ever seen given on this forum. With talk of thousands of GT orders not getting built at all as 05s, there will be no deals on GTs. No price protection, orders not carried over, big price increase probably on the 06, what part of that leads you to believe that a new 05 GT sitting on a lot in September is going to be a bargain price? End of year closeout on a Focus maybe but on a GT? Maybe they will knock it down to MSRP! I just can't agree with you at all on that one! IMHO, of course.
#74
Price increases are inevidable but some people are talking like Ford will increase the price of the car in the ballpark of $4000. Ford would never give Mustang a huge price spike simply because the mantra of the Mustang is "The most power for your buck." The Mustang has been such a seller because it has been cheap compared to other cars with comparable performance. If the GT jumps to $30,000 base price next year the Mustang completely loses its "Affordable muscle" tag and probably takes a hit in sales. Same for the V6. If it spikes to a base of $25k or $26k I can probably go find another car that has comparable numbers for $23k.
If Ford had a price spike they would price themselves out of their own market. Will we likely see another series of $200 or $300 price increases every 4 or 5 months. Probably, but not a $1,000 spike.
If Ford had a price spike they would price themselves out of their own market. Will we likely see another series of $200 or $300 price increases every 4 or 5 months. Probably, but not a $1,000 spike.
#75
Originally posted by TomServo92@April 7, 2005, 7:38 AM
As far as not running the line at full speed - wrong again. The production capacity of AAI is around 250-260K per year. They're scheduled to produce around 192K Mustangs and 70K Mazdas. That puts them at 262K total for the year - full capacity.
As far as not running the line at full speed - wrong again. The production capacity of AAI is around 250-260K per year. They're scheduled to produce around 192K Mustangs and 70K Mazdas. That puts them at 262K total for the year - full capacity.
And just what is "full capacity?" No Ford executive is going to publicly admit that they're too cheap to hire additional workers or pay overtime, so they're not going to sell all the cars that they could. So suddenly "full capacity" is defined as the number of cars they can build using the currently committed resources. I still stand by my claim of 356K if they were fully staffed.
#76
Legacy TMS Member
Originally posted by 74Mach1+April 7, 2005, 11:26 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(74Mach1 @ April 7, 2005, 11:26 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-TomServo92@April 7, 2005, 7:38 AM
As far as not running the line at full speed - wrong again. The production capacity of AAI is around 250-260K per year. They're scheduled to produce around 192K Mustangs and 70K Mazdas. That puts them at 262K total for the year - full capacity.
As far as not running the line at full speed - wrong again. The production capacity of AAI is around 250-260K per year. They're scheduled to produce around 192K Mustangs and 70K Mazdas. That puts them at 262K total for the year - full capacity.
And just what is "full capacity?" No Ford executive is going to publicly admit that they're too cheap to hire additional workers or pay overtime, so they're not going to sell all the cars that they could. So suddenly "full capacity" is defined as the number of cars they can build using the currently committed resources. I still stand by my claim of 356K if they were fully staffed.
[/b][/quote]
Really? This is a direct quote from a Mazda Corporate website:
In the US, AutoAlliance International, Inc. (a joint venture between Mazda and Ford) has a work force of about 3,300 and an annual production capacity of approximately 240,000 vehicles.
#77
Originally posted by TomServo92@April 7, 2005, 11:50 AM
As far as not running the line at full speed - wrong again. The production capacity of AAI is around 250-260K per year. They're scheduled to produce around 192K Mustangs and 70K Mazdas. That puts them at 262K total for the year - full capacity.
As far as not running the line at full speed - wrong again. The production capacity of AAI is around 250-260K per year. They're scheduled to produce around 192K Mustangs and 70K Mazdas. That puts them at 262K total for the year - full capacity.
It's always fun debating with someone who has no math ability. On March 18th Ford announced that they were adding overtime to bring the number of Mustangs to be produced up from their original plan of 160K to 192K. Now, here's how it works: The car's been on sale since the end of September, or 1/2 of a year. If they were on a pace to produce 160K and are now on a pace to produce 192K, then
192K = 0.5(160K) + 0.5(x), where x is the new pace. Solving for x yields
x = 224K
as I said earlier:
According to Jim Padilla, Ford's COO, the capacity of the plant is 290K so if you subtract 70K Mazda 6s, you get 220K Mustangs, not the 192K Ford says they're going to build. Clearly, not full capacity.
By the way, Ford's estimates were not too far off. They had projected a 35% demand for GTs, and it is currently running at 40%.
#78
Legacy TMS Member
Originally posted by 74Mach1+April 7, 2005, 4:24 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(74Mach1 @ April 7, 2005, 4:24 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-TomServo92@April 7, 2005, 11:50 AM
As far as not running the line at full speed - wrong again. The production capacity of AAI is around 250-260K per year. They're scheduled to produce around 192K Mustangs and 70K Mazdas. That puts them at 262K total for the year - full capacity.
As far as not running the line at full speed - wrong again. The production capacity of AAI is around 250-260K per year. They're scheduled to produce around 192K Mustangs and 70K Mazdas. That puts them at 262K total for the year - full capacity.
It's always fun debating with someone who has no math ability. On March 18th Ford announced that they were adding overtime to bring the number of Mustangs to be produced up from their original plan of 160K to 192K. Now, here's how it works: The car's been on sale since the end of September, or 1/2 of a year. If they were on a pace to produce 160K and are now on a pace to produce 192K, then
192K = 0.5(160K) + 0.5(x), where x is the new pace. Solving for x yields
x = 224K
as I said earlier:
According to Jim Padilla, Ford's COO, the capacity of the plant is 290K so if you subtract 70K Mazda 6s, you get 220K Mustangs, not the 192K Ford says they're going to build. Clearly, not full capacity.
By the way, Ford's estimates were not too far off. They had projected a 35% demand for GTs, and it is currently running at 40%.
[/b][/quote]
It's also fun debating with someone who has no clue what they're talking about. Here's a direct quote from an Autoweek article about current Mustang production:
Ford says it will build at least 192,000 Mustangs this year in part by scheduling overtime at its Mazda joint venture plant in Flat Rock, Mich. Ford expects to sell up to 165,000 Mustangs in the United States and 10,000 or more in Canada in 2005.
You seem to post alot of "facts" without providing anything to back them up. Well, here's my proof:
The Autoweek article:
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102118
The Mazda pages stating normal (not overtime) production rates for AAI:
http://www.mazda.com/publicity/relea...108/0822e.html
http://www.mazda.com.au/articleZone1...ticleZoneID=87