Tracy Warner

I just did an engine and transmission swap and I have a noise in the transmission. The noise sounds like a throw out bearing. I know everything is torqued to spec and installed correctly and the motor and tranny came out of wrecked car that was rolled and only had 24k on it. the only thing I can think of is the clutch isn't bled yet. Does anyone have any tips on bleeding the clutch without a vacuum pump? Thank you in advance.

07 Boss

Just pump that thing until your leg is about to fall off. Then pump it with the other leg. Then pump it some more. You can lift the front left side of the car while your doing this, some people say it helps.

ford4v429

in my opinion, lifting the left rear is needed- nose down will float any air in the slave to the rear, where the line is, and raising the drivers side releases the 'trap' formed by the line leaving the bellhousing below the top of the slave line attachment point- heres a pic-

for what its worth though- I cant see any way it would make noise due to not being bled...99% sure either a bad throwout/pressureplate/or pilot bearing. In highschool i helped a buddy swap a motor from a car to his truck- we never noticed there was no pilot bearing the crank, because it came from a auto...yeah, got to do that job twice

anyways, note in this pic how the line leaves at center, but attaches to slave higher...I had a hard time bleeding, barely had enough disengagement to move the car, but got it nose down/drivers high, and it got a lot of air out first try with the vacuum pump- pretty sure gravity would do it too- just let it sit so bubbles float out, and pump real slow a couple times to prevent aerating the fluid...

mrkabc

I'm about ready to do my clutch. What vacuum pump do you recommend? Any other "gotchas" that I need to be aware of prior to taking the plunge?


Also, should I change the input shaft bearings in the tranny while I'm at it? I am suspecting that the "whirrrr" I am hearing at idle might actually be coming from there. Thoughts?

ford4v429

whir at idle... with clutch depressed, does it sound different in neutral/in gear? with clutch in, the throwout is loaded either way, but in neutral, the input shaft will freewheel along, in gear it wont... so any sound change is tranny, not throwout... mine whirs a little in neutral, but theres a lot of stuff spinning around in there too...mines sounded the same since new.

REALLY funny timing...we were at sears earlier, looking at the tool section, they had the old original 'mityvac' of course, and i told the kids- i bought two of those and both of them broke right at the handle pivot- junky plastic...anyone that has one, if you dont use it for a few months, the piston can get a little sticky the first couple pulls- resist the urge to just pull it, or it will snap right in half...work it easy till it frees up and it will be fine...that said though, on the same shelf was a craftsman one- made in china but cast metal. looked a bit closer- its a EXACT copy of the mityvac unit, but potmetal rather than plastic- every seam/parting line, etc the same...frickin china. looks like a better unit as i know the mityvac has weak handle, but no guarantee the seals will pull as leak-free as the original either... dunno which would be better- personally id have to try the metal one- but then ive got spare parts from the busted mityvacs to swap from if need be... maybe i'll just mill up a new handle.

on the bearings, no idea... dont know why they should ever be failure prone though, does the noise change with light pressure on the clutch pedal? would expect that to be throwout... I'm cheep- didnt replace my slave, or even pressure plate, just put a new NTO disk in it for 50 bucks, 10k later its still good. did inject a couple cc of grease into the throwout while it was out, but it was smooth, wasnt too worried. was kinda surprised at the flywheel and PP surfaces- the original tooling marks from turning them were still visible, no heat checking/etc... disk was pretty gone though- I tried -stupidly- at the track one time to launch in 2nd to reduce wheelspin/eliminate one shift- yeah, it was a bad idea, was only a little slower, but oh, the smell... better to smoke the tires than the clutch. think that one move did 90% of the wear, luckily was short enough not to heat the steel...afterwards though it would no longer chirp third, and sometimes would chatter lightly when cold- think it was just due to the excessive disk area from the grooves being about missing, and the rivet holes filled with dust.
hard to imagine what a top fuel clutch must look like after slipping at 8k rpm behind 8k hp

anyways, biggest reason i didnt swap the throwout was reading up on them, there were so many mixed reviews on about all brands, figured might be just as safe with a 65k mile original in good shape...had read about guys having leaks, bearing noises, pedal vibration, etc in reviews on a few sites... and looking at the pictures, they ALL look like they might be from the same manufacturer- same photo/same color parts/etc...these days so many either remarket or copy - or worse sell knockoffs, its hard to tell them apart... good luck
next time, i'm sure mine will have enough miles to need replacement- think what ill do is chuck up a slug in the lathe, put a spring on the center and let it run a few hours with a few hundred pounds load, and listen to the bearing before/after with a stethoscope...if it sounds quieter, should be fine for a long time. my biggest worry is putting in a chinese part and it failing a month later... leaks can be checked for before assembly, having a little peace of mind on the bearing would be nice. I was kinda surprised at the OE bearing- under the accordion boot the bearing isnt sealed- theres a small gap around the shield, but no lip seal- and it appears to be a pretty cheep stamped shell bearing...obviously they are good enough to do the job, but not a real impressive thing up close- like todays wheel bearing/hub assemblies, mass produced/inexpensive, but ***** riding on ground/cast surfaces instead of real steel one good impact from a chuckhole in todays cars will often brinell the races and theyll start flaking away... in the older taper roller hubs, youd bust a frame before damaging a bearing

oh yeah- i didnt replace my pilot bearing either, but did add a little grease also- not much as should ANY sling out and get on the clutch, its shot...the pilot is a nice looking roller bearing with a seal, cleaned it up without removing as best i could, the rollers and input shaft tip were nice and smooth, just regreased and let it be. I did have to turn up a pilot tool- bought one, but it fit stupid loose, coulda eyeballed the disk closer... if i get a chance later I'll go out and measure it up- just turned a old nutdriver handle down to fit snug in the spline and pilot...hokey, but worked nice

ford4v429

other tidbits:

most time consuming part of the job was getting the manifold stud nuts off- they screeched the whole way, 1/8 turn in, 1/4 turn out, more oil, repeat... took forever it seemed for the four stupid nuts.

the bell is extremely tight to the floorpan- read some advice from others that sounds good - next time, drop the two rear engine cradle mounts, the extra ~1" or so would make it a lot easier-
I had to push a few pressure plate fingers in to get the input shaft to clear, reverse going back in... still scratched up the floorpan with top of the bellhousing...

the block dowels- one of mine rusted onto the seperator plate, pulled out of the block instead - made it unexpected fun... used a puttyknife to separate the rusted side from the bellhousing, sprayed penetrating oil in, took a half hour of prying back and forth to walk it off the dowel... once tranny was out, drove the dowel out,polised up the bellhousing holes so it slid in easily, then red loctited the dowel back into the engine block- greased the bellhousing holes with a little moly grease to hopefully keep pins from sticking next time- again, be careful not to leave any grease where it can get inside to the clutch disc.

the clip that locks the line to the throwout at the bellhousing just snaps on...but how to unsnap? looked for pics, couldnt find any- anyhow, a small right angle pick is all thats needed, ust hook under and pull the little straight middle section out- once past center it will fly- be ready, wrap a rag around it or something, its tiny and hard to find on the floor...you wont find any available on a sunday... i looked a half hour for mine once its off, just push the clip back into the fitting so it dont get lost, maybe put a little tape over it to keep it clean inside - when you go to reinstall the line, just push it on towards the bellhousing and the clip will 'click' locking it again...

important thing too- remember until that clutch is bled, it wont work- starting the car could be a runaway. I had to pump mine up a lot just to barely be able to get it to disengage. be careful that you are in neutral the first time you start it up- then try clutching and putting in gear- if clutch wont let go it either wont shift (will just heat the synchros) or will grind- either is better than driving thru a wall