Has anybody actually raced a stock manual GT vs. a stock Auto GT head to head?. There has been much debate if one is faster than the other, and then there is the 1/4 mile times to prove it, but how is it when one is lined next to the other? Who takes off faster? By the end of third gear, how much has the faster car pulled ahead? What about gear changes in the auto at WOT vs. lift throttle gear changes in the manual?.

 

From what I've heard from some guys that have gone to the track....
the autos out perform the the manuals. The reasons... the guys in the manuals try to launch too fast and just sit and spin while the autos take off. Reason #2, the autos shift faster than most "normal" people can shift a manual and they blow it on the shifts. Somebody of race quality driving experience will beat an auto. Two equal cars set up, one auto and one manual, the manual will be faster, it does not have to push the transmission in a manual like it does in the auto.

 

I like the newer 5auto's 2nd gear that shifts into the revs perfectly. Just when you think 'oh its an auto' 2nd gear hits and it goes like a rocket. Although if you move 5' slowly, downshifting back to 1st takes forever. I really wished they would put 3.55's in from the factory.

 

I have not got beat by a manual yet, so i say no to the manual and yes to the auto as faster.

 

It would be hard pressed to beat an auto unless it was go-time at say about 70mph where running out 3 has more of an advantage in the manual.

 

What about the first 1/8th mile. will it be the same comparison or better for the auto??

 

If you are leaving from a dead stop with an auto, with just a hint of finesse for the first 10', its **** hard not get a great run with it. With gear-for-gear ratio to a manual, the auto has got to be faster(have yet to drive a GT without the 3:55's-we never order them without it). The 1st/2nd shift is sheer magic in the auto. Better then any other auto I've ever driven, hi-line car or not. Its almost the complete opposite of shift lag, as if it did it already before you even knew it happened.

 

An auto with a tune is even quicker.

 

In a straight line: The auto is more consistent and yields faster shifting, however I've seen some very fast times out of stock S197 GTs using the manual trans and powershifting. Of course if you do this often, the manual trans is going to take a dump sooner or later.

For a road course: The manual because it yields more control for the driver. Heel to toe downshifting / engine braking, and keeping it in a certain gear on command are tasks that can be done with a manual. Real high performance American cars like the GT500, Z06, and Viper SRT-10 all have manual transmissions. The Europeans like to have a bit of both, with paddle shifting / tip-tronic and other fancy gizmos because they drive so fast that they can't be bothered with a clutch in a high performance car.

Long-term durability: The manual, hands down. From what I have heard, the weakest link is the clutch on the TR-3650, with a lifespan of 70k-150k miles. Of course you could always swap it out later on. The 5R55S engages the OD band in 2nd gear, and uses synchronous shifting for 3rd and 4th gear. There's also the supposed lifetime ATF, and the puny sized ATF filter. The Clown Brick police cars are still using 4R75Ws so the jury is out for the 5R55S's long term durability.

Fun factor: You can't beat a manual transmission in this department. Having driven mostly automatics, I'd definitely PREFER manual transmissions in the future. Automatics are also finnicky when it comes to tuning, because there's about 2 dozen different settings in the PCM to adjust for faster shifts and longer lifespan (Shift schedule, line pressure, TC lockup rates, shift line pressure, etc...).

 

Well you can never porportionally control the downshift on a roadcourse with an automatic, even if it is a 7+ speed with some form of tiptronic, so it will never have an advantage there by nature. Durability should be good, just make sure you properly maintain an Auto, including getting it fully flushed periodically. Good tranny fluid is blood-life for them.

 

I´m sure the manual has a better gear to gear ratio than the auto, this coupled with a 3.55 rear end for the manual vs. a 3.31 for the auto. On the dyno manuals put down more power everytime. Most of you who have raced a manual vs. an auto say that the auto is as fast if not faster than the manual in the first three gears. Is the auto really that good?

 

Im surprised no one gave the manual the edge because of less HP loss in the drivetrain vs the Auto. And maybe the weight factor, that I dont know the specs on. I'm just assuming auto is slightly heavier?

I knew I was going to be doing a road course or 2 when I ordered mine, and had Auto the last 11 years, it was time for a change.

 

The auto IS that good. It's a 5 speed auto, which really keeps the engine in its powerband. All previous Mustang autos, (and 99.9% of all autos in all cars) are 4 speeds. Driveline losses and extra weight can tip the scales a bit, but don't forget there is no downtime inbetween shifts. Even a quick shifter will lose .25-.5 seconds every shift....this can be the difference.

 

At the drag strip, the auto will be faster 9 out of 10 races (depending on how good the manual driver is). On an autocross circuit, the manual gives you the possibility to downshift precisely when you need, so it will be faster around the track.
I have an auto and I'm still waiting for some people to install and test the B&M auto shifter before I order mine and head for the Nürburgring...

 

The new 5A seems to be a good tranny. Untill you get blown. I've heard 2nd gear is weak.

If I ordered my 07 with the 5A I'd build the tranny before getting blown.

 

The FSM says something about the overdrive band being engaged in 2nd gear, which may have something to do with it. Traditionally the overdrive bands have been the weakest link in Ford's AOD/AODE/4R70W/4R75W/4R75E automatic overdrive transmissions.

I heard the TR-3650 is good for at least 360 ft-lb, but it is closer to around 400-450 ft-lb with the stock clutch. Once you upgrade the clutch, I was told that the input shaft becomes the weakest link. Supposedly, with a hardened input shaft and a better clutch, the TR-3650 can hold 700 ft-lb.

You can't get the same fun factor in a modern muscle car with an automatic transmission (unless you need a GT for a daily driver in stop/go traffic).

The upcoming 2008 Dodge Viper SRT-10 and Chevrolet Corvette Z0x (whatever it will be called when it comes out) are getting the TR-6060 (6-speed manual), same as the GT500. The TR-6060 is an improvement on the T-56 (of 03-04 Cobra / Z06 fame) and is rated for at least 600 ft-lb of torque.

 

...in your opinion. Personally speaking, I'm getting that fun factor with mine. And it's the first Auto modern muscle car I've purchased.

 

If autos were that good, why aren't they used in real race cars? Personally, I'd never buy a performance car with a slush-box in it. Now if we start talking about automated manuals like Audi/VW's DSG, then that's a different story.

 

Uh yeah they are... most any serious drag car is an auto not a stick!

 

I'll vouch for that, I used to drag race an 8.6 second 1/4 mile Mustang, and it had an auto in it. ~850HP, 900ft/lbs. Granted, it was a 2 speed auto, PowerGlide (I know, a GM tranny, but they are very popular in drag racing applications). Kind of like the Ford 9" rear ends that EVERYONE uses.

500 runs on the tranny and we took it apart because it just HAD to be ready to be rebuilt, right? So we took it apart and we could still read the stampings on the bands. Put it back together and put it back in the car. Didn't change a thing except for the gasket. Put another 300 runs on it before we sold it. Never any problems!