Long waits and lack of planning at Ford
6/3/05, 11:29 AM
#21
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Originally posted by mmoonshot@June 3, 2005, 12:21 PM
imo The customer ordering the car should come first period, the dealers are raking in the profits from marked up sales, literally Ford is raking in the profits as well, the bottom line is money, 26 to 29 k is alot of money for the average american consumer, Ford has to step up to meet the demand, it is very poor business to neglect the people who support Ford, and american built cars, and support dealer greed. There should not have to be sacrifices if you are the customer period, remember you are the customer., its youre hard earned money being spent and you should be able to get what you want, when you want it ! :bang: :bang:
imo The customer ordering the car should come first period, the dealers are raking in the profits from marked up sales, literally Ford is raking in the profits as well, the bottom line is money, 26 to 29 k is alot of money for the average american consumer, Ford has to step up to meet the demand, it is very poor business to neglect the people who support Ford, and american built cars, and support dealer greed. There should not have to be sacrifices if you are the customer period, remember you are the customer., its youre hard earned money being spent and you should be able to get what you want, when you want it ! :bang: :bang:
6/3/05, 11:54 AM
#22
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No matter what you guys say, you can't convince me there's no way to make more GTs in a way that will still be profitable. Do you guys work for Ford or something, cause it certainly sounds like it. It seems in your eyes, Ford has done nothing wrong with this launch, and I think most would agree, they have plenty of areas they could improve upon!
And yes, I was talking about the V6 Mustang, not the Mazda 6. How can it cost so much money for Ford to build more GTs, when they're already making them there. If they would have started to get their suppliers to ramp up production 6 months ago, they would have plenty of parts to go into increased GT production. They've done it with the IUP components, so why can't they do it with the rest of them????They already have the facility, so I'm not talking about a new one.
And my comparison about the groceries was not about their production, it was about fixing an issue about getting them to market. That could be a production facility, supplier issues, whatever it is, I'm not talking about a customer buying buns at the store. And the other poster made a very good point about forecasting, which Ford screwed up in a big way.
So go ahead and tell me how I'm wrong cause Ford couldn't know that there would be this much demand, and there's nothing they can do to build more in a profitable manner, but its all a bunch of BS if you ask me. They've had at least 6 months of high demand on this car, and it seems that they are doing very little to satisfy customers, the ones that count, not the dealers! Cause if you don't think WE are Ford's customers, then you are sorely mistaken. Maybe that's why Ford is losing market share cause they'd rather take care of a dealer than a paying customer on the street. Dunno, seems backward to me.
Anyway, you guys will continue to believe that Ford can't do anything about this, and the majority of us will believe that they can, so with all that said, everybody have a great weekend, cause I'll be out driving my Mustang : )
And yes, I was talking about the V6 Mustang, not the Mazda 6. How can it cost so much money for Ford to build more GTs, when they're already making them there. If they would have started to get their suppliers to ramp up production 6 months ago, they would have plenty of parts to go into increased GT production. They've done it with the IUP components, so why can't they do it with the rest of them????They already have the facility, so I'm not talking about a new one.
And my comparison about the groceries was not about their production, it was about fixing an issue about getting them to market. That could be a production facility, supplier issues, whatever it is, I'm not talking about a customer buying buns at the store. And the other poster made a very good point about forecasting, which Ford screwed up in a big way.
So go ahead and tell me how I'm wrong cause Ford couldn't know that there would be this much demand, and there's nothing they can do to build more in a profitable manner, but its all a bunch of BS if you ask me. They've had at least 6 months of high demand on this car, and it seems that they are doing very little to satisfy customers, the ones that count, not the dealers! Cause if you don't think WE are Ford's customers, then you are sorely mistaken. Maybe that's why Ford is losing market share cause they'd rather take care of a dealer than a paying customer on the street. Dunno, seems backward to me.
Anyway, you guys will continue to believe that Ford can't do anything about this, and the majority of us will believe that they can, so with all that said, everybody have a great weekend, cause I'll be out driving my Mustang : )
6/3/05, 11:59 AM
#23
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Originally posted by Flyinlow@June 3, 2005, 10:56 AM
I was going to make the very same comment. I too work for a grocery company. I know the three basic necessities are food, clothing, shelter, but if you had to add a fourth it would have to be the car. Unless you live in a big east coast city, you have to have transportation.
I was going to make the very same comment. I too work for a grocery company. I know the three basic necessities are food, clothing, shelter, but if you had to add a fourth it would have to be the car. Unless you live in a big east coast city, you have to have transportation.
6/3/05, 12:07 PM
#24
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Originally posted by stargirl66@June 3, 2005, 12:28 PM
My guess is they aren't so backlogged with new 06 orders that is causing a 3-4 wait. It's the backlog of 05 orders that won't get to production this year and will be given priority as a new 06 order. I think Ford has increased production, and will eventually meet the supply and demand, it just hasn't happened yet.
My guess is they aren't so backlogged with new 06 orders that is causing a 3-4 wait. It's the backlog of 05 orders that won't get to production this year and will be given priority as a new 06 order. I think Ford has increased production, and will eventually meet the supply and demand, it just hasn't happened yet.
Unless they reorder they won't be getting an 06. Ford will not automatically roll over those orders to an 06. The customer must reorder and unless the dealer gives them a higher priority they won't be ahead of anyone. I also would say if they drag their feet in reordering the 06 they will be behind alot of people that did not want the debut MY.
I also wonder if dealers learned a lesson about time estimating. Also, 3 - 4 monthes right now really isn't bad since job 1 on the 06 isn't till approx the second week of Aug, I think.
6/3/05, 12:28 PM
#26
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If you recall, back in '65 Ford wasn't really planning to make 650,000, but they managed to cope with the demand. Now I realise the political and economical situations are different now, and that Ford's not going to sell that number again, but I bet they could've sold well over 200k if they had had the production capability.
6/3/05, 12:28 PM
#27
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Originally posted by moc1976@June 3, 2005, 12:57 PM
No matter what you guys say, you can't convince me there's no way to make more GTs in a way that will still be profitable. Do you guys work for Ford or something, cause it certainly sounds like it. It seems in your eyes, Ford has done nothing wrong with this launch, and I think most would agree, they have plenty of areas they could improve upon!
No matter what you guys say, you can't convince me there's no way to make more GTs in a way that will still be profitable. Do you guys work for Ford or something, cause it certainly sounds like it. It seems in your eyes, Ford has done nothing wrong with this launch, and I think most would agree, they have plenty of areas they could improve upon!
Like I said before, it's a far more complex an issue than you make it out to be with suppliers, production capacity, available capital and CAFE laws having big impacts on their decision making.
6/3/05, 12:31 PM
#28
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Originally posted by 97svtgoin05gt@June 3, 2005, 10:10 AM
Tom, you are right on the money here. I'm hearing a lot of "spoiled American" comments on this thread. We're talking about whether Ford should sacrifice their financial well-being to satisfy the thirsty American public on this vehicle. My view is this car represents a VERY BIG leap forward for Mustang lovers AND a really slick, cool car for people who would have never even considered a Mustang prior to S-197. This all translates into one thing. BIG DEMAND. Right now Ford would be utterly crazy to just go convert another plant to produce more Mustangs for a number of reasons including, but not limited to conversion and tooling costs, labor costs, parts shortages, and possible future demand shrinkage.
Dealer stock units are always under production and being delivered. If you simply can't wait for an ordered car, you should search often and throughly to locate one you can cut a deal on. There may be some sacrifices option wise, but people need to give a little, take a little. If you utterly MUST have the car you want with no exceptions, get on line and be patient.
Tom, you are right on the money here. I'm hearing a lot of "spoiled American" comments on this thread. We're talking about whether Ford should sacrifice their financial well-being to satisfy the thirsty American public on this vehicle. My view is this car represents a VERY BIG leap forward for Mustang lovers AND a really slick, cool car for people who would have never even considered a Mustang prior to S-197. This all translates into one thing. BIG DEMAND. Right now Ford would be utterly crazy to just go convert another plant to produce more Mustangs for a number of reasons including, but not limited to conversion and tooling costs, labor costs, parts shortages, and possible future demand shrinkage.
Dealer stock units are always under production and being delivered. If you simply can't wait for an ordered car, you should search often and throughly to locate one you can cut a deal on. There may be some sacrifices option wise, but people need to give a little, take a little. If you utterly MUST have the car you want with no exceptions, get on line and be patient.
I also stated that I CAN wait for a car, and I will. That does not mean I have to be thrilled about it, and unquestioningly accept whatever Ford is willing to give me. I'm a customer of Ford, just as you are...I have a right to express myself about issues I see in Ford's handling of a supply problem.
Adding an entire production line is only one solution to the problem...Ford could also increase shifts, workers, and machinery on existing lines. There IS big demand for this vehicle, and economics dictate that Ford increase supply to fill the gap.
6/3/05, 12:34 PM
#29
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Originally posted by PonyLover@June 3, 2005, 11:00 AM
Another thing to think about is did you order from a high volume dealer that already has orders before you?
If the dealer has already taken 10 orders before yours then it could be the beginning of year before you get yours. The dealer is only alloted so many GT's per month.
Another thing to think about is did you order from a high volume dealer that already has orders before you?
If the dealer has already taken 10 orders before yours then it could be the beginning of year before you get yours. The dealer is only alloted so many GT's per month.
6/3/05, 12:39 PM
#30
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Originally posted by mmoonshot@June 3, 2005, 11:21 AM
imo The customer ordering the car should come first period, the dealers are raking in the profits from marked up sales, literally Ford is raking in the profits as well, the bottom line is money, 26 to 29 k is alot of money for the average american consumer, Ford has to step up to meet the demand, it is very poor business to neglect the people who support Ford, and american built cars, and support dealer greed. There should not have to be sacrifices if you are the customer period, remember you are the customer., its youre hard earned money being spent and you should be able to get what you want, when you want it ! :bang: :bang:
imo The customer ordering the car should come first period, the dealers are raking in the profits from marked up sales, literally Ford is raking in the profits as well, the bottom line is money, 26 to 29 k is alot of money for the average american consumer, Ford has to step up to meet the demand, it is very poor business to neglect the people who support Ford, and american built cars, and support dealer greed. There should not have to be sacrifices if you are the customer period, remember you are the customer., its youre hard earned money being spent and you should be able to get what you want, when you want it ! :bang: :bang:If there were still an F-Body comptetitor. GM would be siphoning off sales from Ford right now over people not wanting to wait for a Mustang GT. In fact, I bet other competitors are already getting some of the scraps from the Mustang table. I've seen SEVERAL people post on these forums that they didn't want to wait and picked up a GTO off the lots.
6/3/05, 12:40 PM
#31
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Originally posted by 97svtgoin05gt@June 3, 2005, 11:19 AM
Tom, I believe he was referring to 6cyl Mustangs, not Mazda 6's. No matter how you slice it, you cannot compare cars with groceries. You may as well compare production of toothpicks to Air Craft Carriers. It's just not the same thing. Supplier management, delivery schedules, production schedules, engineering changes, line issues etc etc. Grocery products, you turn on the line and let it run. As long as there is raw materials, things don't stop. Not only that but how often do you hear something like "DANG, I wanted those hamburger rolls, they are the COOLEST!!" If you can't get a certain hamburger roll, you buy a different brand. That all doesn't exist here, so let's just face it. IT ISN'T THE SAME.
Tom, I believe he was referring to 6cyl Mustangs, not Mazda 6's. No matter how you slice it, you cannot compare cars with groceries. You may as well compare production of toothpicks to Air Craft Carriers. It's just not the same thing. Supplier management, delivery schedules, production schedules, engineering changes, line issues etc etc. Grocery products, you turn on the line and let it run. As long as there is raw materials, things don't stop. Not only that but how often do you hear something like "DANG, I wanted those hamburger rolls, they are the COOLEST!!" If you can't get a certain hamburger roll, you buy a different brand. That all doesn't exist here, so let's just face it. IT ISN'T THE SAME.
-- "those are cool hamburger rolls" f'in funny
6/3/05, 12:42 PM
#32
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Originally posted by MrMorden@June 3, 2005, 12:34 PM
I started this thread to discuss the situation, and I specifically stated that I understand Ford's position and am not bashing them. There's no reason for you to call me or anybody else in this thread a "spoiled American" -- so far people have been civil here, so why the personal attacks?
I also stated that I CAN wait for a car, and I will. That does not mean I have to be thrilled about it, and unquestioningly accept whatever Ford is willing to give me. I'm a customer of Ford, just as you are...I have a right to express myself about issues I see in Ford's handling of a supply problem.
Adding an entire production line is only one solution to the problem...Ford could also increase shifts, workers, and machinery on existing lines. There IS big demand for this vehicle, and economics dictate that Ford increase supply to fill the gap.
I started this thread to discuss the situation, and I specifically stated that I understand Ford's position and am not bashing them. There's no reason for you to call me or anybody else in this thread a "spoiled American" -- so far people have been civil here, so why the personal attacks?
I also stated that I CAN wait for a car, and I will. That does not mean I have to be thrilled about it, and unquestioningly accept whatever Ford is willing to give me. I'm a customer of Ford, just as you are...I have a right to express myself about issues I see in Ford's handling of a supply problem.
Adding an entire production line is only one solution to the problem...Ford could also increase shifts, workers, and machinery on existing lines. There IS big demand for this vehicle, and economics dictate that Ford increase supply to fill the gap.
Andy, I wasn't aiming that comment at you, but some of the comments passed by other members that just don't seem to understand the situation this car has produced. To my understanding, they cannot put on more workers of shifts because AAI is working at full capacity on that line. Correct me if I'm wrong on this people, but as I recall from the readings here, I believe Ford is at 100% capacity on this line. I wasn't singling out anyone, just the fact that we as a country have become a very "I want it now" society and in certain situations, you can't always get things exactly when you want them. I'm one of the worst offenders of this myself. I knew I couldn't wait to order one of these and foresaw the coming storm. I went and found a car on the lot and immediately wrangled it in. Thing is, knowing the situation right now on ordered cars, and yackin about it after you place an order is silly.
Oh and on your Wrangler, no big deal really. I ordered a BMW 323i which was supposed to come in 6-8 weeks and it got there in 5, from Germany. Just imagine what situation we'd have if Ford didn't move production to the modern AAI plant.
6/3/05, 12:45 PM
#33
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Originally posted by MrMorden@June 3, 2005, 12:34 PM
Ford could also increase shifts, workers, and machinery on existing lines.
Ford could also increase shifts, workers, and machinery on existing lines.
6/3/05, 12:46 PM
#34
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Originally posted by MrMorden@June 3, 2005, 1:42 PM
Amen brother. This is not rocket science here, it's economics 101. All the problems with parts, distribution, and productions lines are FORD'S problem. If the consumer cannot get the prodct it wants from Ford, it will go elsewhere.
Amen brother. This is not rocket science here, it's economics 101. All the problems with parts, distribution, and productions lines are FORD'S problem. If the consumer cannot get the prodct it wants from Ford, it will go elsewhere.
The second highlighted text is absolutely correct. It's a very big problem without simple solutions (contrary to what some of you think).
6/3/05, 12:51 PM
#35
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The plant at Flat Rock is tapped out. (George Pipas, manager, Sales Analysis, Ford Motor Company audio clip.) Adding production capacity means enabling another plant to produce Mustangs, which is an astronomical cost. Besides, demand will diminish soon.
6/3/05, 01:08 PM
#36
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I really doubt demand will diminish soon. The only way demand will diminish is if there are viable alternatives to the mustang such as a Camaro or a redesigned and cheaper GTO, and none of those vehicles are coming out in the near future. Ford should have started investing the money in another plant for producing Mustangs as soon as they saw initial demand last fall. This is all just poor planning and execution on Ford's part, and by now there should be some results instead of just saying "we're operating at max capacity and cannot make anymore". That's just BS for a company as large as Ford, and there's no excuse.
6/3/05, 01:13 PM
#37
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Demand will diminish soon because so many enthusiasts were chomping at the bit for the 2005 GT. The same thing happened in 1999, and it all smoothed out. Demand for the V8 will fall and the 65/35 V6/GT mix will be correct.
6/3/05, 01:17 PM
#38
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Originally posted by bryman@June 3, 2005, 1:11 PM
I really doubt demand will diminish soon. The only way demand will diminish is if there are viable alternatives to the mustang such as a Camaro or a redesigned and cheaper GTO, and none of those vehicles are coming out in the near future. Ford should have started investing the money in another plant for producing Mustangs as soon as they saw initial demand last fall. This is all just poor planning and execution on Ford's part, and by now there should be some results instead of just saying "we're operating at max capacity and cannot make anymore". That's just BS for a company as large as Ford, and there's no excuse.
I really doubt demand will diminish soon. The only way demand will diminish is if there are viable alternatives to the mustang such as a Camaro or a redesigned and cheaper GTO, and none of those vehicles are coming out in the near future. Ford should have started investing the money in another plant for producing Mustangs as soon as they saw initial demand last fall. This is all just poor planning and execution on Ford's part, and by now there should be some results instead of just saying "we're operating at max capacity and cannot make anymore". That's just BS for a company as large as Ford, and there's no excuse.
6/3/05, 01:21 PM
#39
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I believe there is a huge demand trend for any decently priced V8 RWD car right now. Just take a look at anything with a Hemi in it, they cannot keep them in stock. If the GTO didn't look like a Cavilier and was so impractical (tiny trunk, no fold down seats) and was priced less, it would be selling like hotcakes as well. And this is all happening as gas prices continue to rise. I hope you guys are right, but if it is another year until I can walk up to my choice of GTs on a lot and ask for a test drive without getting laughed at, that's way too long.
6/3/05, 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by MrMorden@June 3, 2005, 9:55 AM
Hey guys, like others on here I have ordereda 2006 Mustang GT. Also like other, I have been told my car will probably not be built until after the first of the year.
I'm willing to wait. In my mind, no other car holds a candle to the new Mustang GT in price/performance and just plain coolness factor.
But the obvious question remains: WHY the long wait? Surely Ford knew this would be a hot seller, and experience from the 2005 model year should tell them what to expect in 2006. Why has Ford not ramped up production on the GT or opened another production line to meet the demand? After all, as poor as domestic auto sales have been, ANY car that can exceed average production numbers should be cherished like gold.
The only reason I can see for this issue is that Ford is worried about meeting overall lineup MPG targets. The GT gets 2 mpg worse than the V6, so if Ford builds a ton of them their average MPG goes down and the government come along and whacks ther pee-pee for that.
Even so, it is kind of ridiculous that orders on a general availability car with a base of under $25K are being pushed back six months or more. If this keeps up, instead of being a huge cash cow for the company, the Mustang GT will be a PR black eye for them.
Anyhow, I'll just keep waiting... <_<
Hey guys, like others on here I have ordereda 2006 Mustang GT. Also like other, I have been told my car will probably not be built until after the first of the year.
I'm willing to wait. In my mind, no other car holds a candle to the new Mustang GT in price/performance and just plain coolness factor.
But the obvious question remains: WHY the long wait? Surely Ford knew this would be a hot seller, and experience from the 2005 model year should tell them what to expect in 2006. Why has Ford not ramped up production on the GT or opened another production line to meet the demand? After all, as poor as domestic auto sales have been, ANY car that can exceed average production numbers should be cherished like gold.
The only reason I can see for this issue is that Ford is worried about meeting overall lineup MPG targets. The GT gets 2 mpg worse than the V6, so if Ford builds a ton of them their average MPG goes down and the government come along and whacks ther pee-pee for that.
Even so, it is kind of ridiculous that orders on a general availability car with a base of under $25K are being pushed back six months or more. If this keeps up, instead of being a huge cash cow for the company, the Mustang GT will be a PR black eye for them.
Anyhow, I'll just keep waiting... <_<
He told me late Fall. Around here it seems most dealers get 25 a year so that puts me in line with late Fall IF I'm 4th like he says. I just hope so