MedVader

Found this link over on Z28.com to BON.

http://blueovalnews.com/2005/products/lane...cane04feb05.htm

Looks like the mod motor is IT for a LONG time. Which isn't a bad thing necessarily.

bob

Nope, its a very good thing

if there is one company that goes out if its way to make a part man's life pure heck, it is reinvent the wheel FORD.

case in point

351 windsor
351 cleveland
351 modified

I would love to be the HMFIC for there engine program, it would all be based on a 3v 5.4 liter modular V8, all of it; I4, V6, V8, V10, etc. 1 deck height and the only changes would be in the bore, stroke, and rod length. Same water pump, same head bolts, same everything except the bore, stroke and rod length.

Tiberius1701

Quote:if there is one company that goes out if its way to make a part man's life pure heck, it is reinvent the wheel FORD.: End Quote


Can you say GCAT

200mphcobra

I always loved the fact that so many diffrent engines allowed me to make some crazy combinations, like cleveland headed windsors and super high rpm 289's with Boss 302 heads. What I don't like is small bore long stroke motors that don't allow me to put enough valve area in my heads to get some good NA power, aka MOD motors. It also make motors too tall to fit in our beloved Mustangs without engine room issues. Yes I know they fit, but have you ever tried to put long tube headers on your cobra? If so you know what I mean. I think Ford is making a terrible mistake, and will live to regret it rather quickly.
How long do you think its going to take Dodge to put that 6.1 Hemi in a truck.
And when they finnaly get a car that weighs less that 2 tons to put it into, look out. I'm not bashing, I'm worrying.

mustang_sallad

i dunno, part of me is disappointed, but mostly i'm pretty happy. This is a smart decision. It'll improve ford's image to stay away from the whole HEMI thing. I think its really smart of them to call this HEMI thing as a big fad. Besides, using the cash to better develop the new v6 will pay off more, that's the engine that's gonna find its way into hundreds of thousands of their cars. The Hurricane might sell a lot in the F-150, and maybe in a couple special vehicles, like an svt crown vic or something crazy like that (which yes, sounds so cool...), but it won't benefit them nearly as much.
Ford has an awesome motor putting out at least 550hp, do they really need more than that? If they can get that 3.5L v6 putting out close to 300hp and doing an efficient job of it, that'll really keep them competitive.

200mphcobra

Vallied points yes, but Ford best selling vehicle is the F-150, without it Ford goes broke. Dodge and Chevy both have larger more powerful standard V8's. What car company you know of has decided to make less powerfull motors because power is just a fad? Soon Honda will join the fray, and Nissan is showing what it can do also. These motors have room to grow because of bore spacing, and the Ford is near maxed out. Try to get 7.0 liters from 8 cylinders of MOD motor. Sure you can squeeze a litle more out of the 5.4, but duribility problems arise. Every time MT, C&D, R&T etc test it they love it (F150) but you always hear "needs more power". V6 may sell in higher overall numbers, but you never hear advertisements for full size trucks touting V6 power. heck, even V6's are growing. V8's are here for at least 20 more years, maybe more. Cylinder deactivation gives them efficiency; Ford still dosen't have it. The mod motor has been bandaided to the job its performing. Remember it was aborted from front wheel drive duty. In this day and age, you can't hope for a 9/10th's design to compete with 10/10's, the market is too competitive.

Once again, I bleed Ford blue, and I'll take what I can get and make it better, but I wish they'ed throw us a darn bone on this one.

TomServo92

I guess it depends on what you mean by more powerful. Both the Hemi and Chevy's have more peak HP but if I remember correctly, the 5.4 has a longer, flatter torque curve than either. Torque is where it's at in trucks, not HP.

crazyhorse

I guess it depends on what you mean by more powerful. Both the Hemi and Chevy's have more peak HP but if I remember correctly, the 5.4 has a longer, flatter torque curve than either. Torque is where it's at in trucks, not HP.
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You know that, I know that, but, most of the public will focus solely on the HP peak. "this truck has xxx hp and that truck doesn't" goes a long way with the public.

TomServo92

Where it shows up (and anyone who's serious about using a truck like it's supposed to used will pay attention to it) is payload and towing capacity. But you are right, perception is more important than reality to the general public.

bob

I know the mod motors are hobbled by being set-up for transverse duty, but Ford needs to get all their eggs in one basket and quit wandering all over the map and start doing evolutionary engineering instead of reinventing the wheel. The 3v head is a good place to start and I'm sure there is plenty of refinement left to do in the ports and combustion chambers.

RRRoamer

Time for the 'ol big block. But based on the mod motor design! Keep as much in common as possible, BUT move the bores at LEAST .2" (and .4" would be better!) apart to allow much bigger bores. Heck, as long as the stroke is in the current 5.4, they wouldn't even have to increase the deck height, just the bore spacing (block length, head length, crank length, total engine weight, etc.) to get MUCH larger displacements out of the engine and allow it co compete with the larger engines from the other companies.

They should try to keep as many of the accessories identical were possible (water pump, oil pump, accessory drives, engine control systems, etc) and only change the parts that must change. And they should even keep the basic designs the same. For example, the heads on the BB would be the same basic design as the SB, but the valves would be seperated slightly to allow larger intake and exhaust valves and larger ports in the heads. But the design is fundamentally the same, so the work in one part is applicable to the other part. I don't know about you, but I would LOVE to see a large bore, short stroke 6.0L 24V mod motor sitting between the front tires of my Mustang!

RRRoamer

Oh, and quick math shows this engine SHOULD be good for around 430hp based on the increased size and a slight (10%) increase in efficency based on the larger valves and ports...

bob

Well the engine would have to grow in length somewhat I beleive since the bores are siamesed. Isn't the mod motor bore just 3.550" ?

TomServo92

Ford has already demonstrated what I think is a good solution: the 5.8L V10 that was in the 2003 Mustang Boss 351 Concept. Ford could get larger displacment for F150s, Expeditions, and (of course) Mustangs to compete with the Hemi and LS2 while still keeping the current mod motor family. Start with a 3V design for regular production cars with a 4V design for high-perf vehicles (read SVT!). I'd love to see a Mustang SE with a 3V 5.8L V10!

bob

Amen brotha, I drooled all over the that Boss 351 concept car. I loved it from the 18" wheels to the low key grpahics and that awesome 5.7 liter V10.

hatsharpener

The modulars, given their current uses, do need a good overhaul. They aren't used primarily as a FWD engine anymore. They need to be redesigned with larger bores, better bore spacing, variable intake geometry, port FI, and VVT on both intake and exhaust cams. Even if they left engine size at 281 ci, they'd have a great motor that makes plenty of low-end and high end torque.

200mphcobra

Excellent compromise. Saves money, and gives us what we need to combat all the others. The head design is sound, and the blocks are strong.

mustang_sallad

here's the article on detnews:
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0...7/A02-81538.htm

"Ford is also developing an all-aluminum 6.4-liter V-10 engine that produces 605 horsepower. Featured in the Shelby GR-1 concept car that debuted at the Detroit Auto Show, it's lighter than the 550-horsepower supercharged V-8 engine that powers the 2005 Ford GT. "

Motor Trend was saying in its article on the GR-1 that if produced, it would probably go with the hurricane instead of a V-10, so i guess this changes that.

slavehand

So if I am reading this correctly, the thread is about the "Hurricane" motor being killed off but if, the GR-1 is produced, it will have the "Hurricane" motor instead of the all-alluminum v-10. Awesome :scratch:

mustang_sallad

no, all i'm saying is that when the march issue of motor trend came out, obviously written a couple weeks before this news came out last week, it looked like the GR-1, if produced, would get the hurricane instead of the v-10.

Detnews seems to think that now that V10 will actually go into production.