TMSBrad

General Motors is committed to "gotta-have" cars, vehicles that consumers will stand in line for — checkbooks in hand.

Gotta-have cars, GM says, will win back buyers who have fled the automaker to help it increase market share and, more important, profits in North America.

The Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky roadsters are two examples. They are in far greater demand than supply.

On this year's auto-show circuit, it unveiled the concept of a sure gotta-have: the Chevrolet Camaro.

But if GM thinks it can attract buyers by bringing back a high-powered, V-8 Camaro sports coupe, it better consider offering a lower-priced V-6 version as well.

So says the man who stands to do battle with Camaro if and when Chevrolet gives a production thumbs up. Hau Thai-Tang is director of advance product creation and head of Ford Motor Co.'s SVT performance division.

Ford hasn't had to worry about a Camaro rival for its Mustang coupe since Chevy mothballed the car after the 2001 model run.

So it's not only surprising Thai-Tang is willing to offer his competition advice, but it's also rather odd that he hopes Chevy gives Camaro the go-ahead and that Dodge does the same for its concept Challenger coupe.

"Chevy easily can take a Vette engine and do a high-performance Camaro, but the trick is to do an affordable V-6 model because if it doesn't, it will struggle," Thai-Tang said in a recent interview.

Thai-Tang, by the way, was chief engineer on the latest-generation Mustang before being promoted to his current post.

"Keep in mind that 70 percent of Mustang sales are the lower-priced $20,000 V-6 models, not the $25,000 V-8s. Chevy has to make money on an affordable $20,000 V-6 Camaro to be able to support a higher-priced, high-performance V-8 version," he said.

Thai-Tang's not worried about a more crowded field.

"Competition helps the sports car breed. People interested in Camaro and Challenger are people interested in sports cars," Thai-Tang said, adding that the Camaro/Challenger concepts spurred interest in the Mustang. Lots of auto-show visitors made their way into a Ford showroom to see how the Mustang stacked up against the concepts.

"Camaro and Challenger are only concepts now, but the strong interest in them helps us. Motor Trend even did a Mustang versus Camaro comparison, and Camaro isn't even built yet."

However, Thai-Tang is proceeding as if Camaro and Challenger soon will be built.

He noted that Ford offers a 300-horsepower V-8 Mustang for about $25,000 and the 500-hp V-8 Shelby GT500 Mustang for about $40,000, adding "there's room for some cars between those cars with a mild performance enhancement, though not to 500 horsepower."

Hmmm. A niche for Chevy and Dodge to explore?

As with the previous-generation Mustang and its Bullitt version that drew on the popularity of the fabled Steve McQueen movie, some limited-edition Mustang derivatives are under consideration.

Thai-Tang won't say what or when, though one example would be the 325-hp "Rent-a-Racer." Ford recently inked a pact with Hertz to offer such versions of Mustang called the Shelby Mustang GTH.

incomingRPG

Somewhat surprised at the 70 percent.

No, a place for the Mustang SE we are all looking forward to.

hi5.0

Whether or not Chevy or Dodge build the Camaro and Challenger respectively, Ford and HTT should be seeking ways to keep improving the Mustang. As for any V8 SE that may be on the horizon, if power remains competitive with a Z28 or RT/TA, then HTT shouldn't be worried. HTT didn't mention anything about Motor Trend's article suggesting the Mustang should "go on a serious diet" to be more competitive with the Camaro's projected performance. Yeah, I know GM and Dodge got nothing yet, but decreasing weight can only do good. Using the new 3.5L V6 as the Mustang's base engine will go a long way toward keeping sales figures strong. Just have its output match or improve upon the ratings given for the Lincoln MKZ, which will hopefully translate into power increases in the V8 models.

Boomer

I VERY highly doubt the Camaro and Challenger will be lighter than the stang.

If they are...it'll cost more for the lightweight materials.

Then again it's pretty useless to argue about a car that isn't out on the market or finalized yet.

stangster

I tend to agree with Boomer - the Camaro and Challenger likely won't be lighter than the Stang. They will want them to be as rigid as possible and to handle torque flex, and yet as inexpensive as possible to keep them in the range of the Stang. As of now, that means enough steel to do the job, or very expensive alternatives.

Galaxie

With tougher crash regulations, cars will only get heavier. The concept challenger was a pig it should be noted.

HTT is right though, the sales of the base model help spread out the costs and help the V8 models affordable.


The last generation of the F-bodies didn't have an appealing 6-cylinder lineup, as a result they lost a lot of sales.

blk05stang

haha good luck getting a GT500 anywhere near 40k

Vermillion06

More special editions are on the way... probably a Mach1? Ford's definitely not neglecting the Mustang like it has some other models.

The Challenger, if and when it gets built, will probably be a two door version of the Charger/300 platform, so it's not going to be a lightweight...

Camaro? Who knows if it will even get built? Of the two, the Challenger seems more likely to go to production.

Boltzman

I by no means am no chevy or dodge guy,but if I had the money ,I would buy both. That camaro IMO looks BAD ***! And the numbers aint that shabby

RaGsHoCkEy88

i second that

THRUST_

Isn't it only because ford decided to make 70% of all mustangs V6's. If they'd decided to make more V8's, they probably could have sold more.

I'm not saying the V6 isn't important to mustangs but I remember GT's selling a lot quicker than the sixes when the 2005 mustang came out.

Josh69

I'm not surprised by the 70% being V6's, after all, 70% of all 'stangs made are V6's, rather than V8's due to 1) manufacturing constraints and 2) EPA ratings.

I'm pretty sure GM is aware of this, it's not a want to, it's a have to.

Josh69

Good timing Thrust!! I think we were writing that response at the same moment!!

ISELLFORD

The last generation of the F-bodies didn't have an appealing 6-cylinder lineup, as a result they lost a lot of sales.[/quote]

We offer a V-6 in the F150 regular cab 4x2 and sell a lot of them.

THRUST_

yeah we definitly were, I always hate it when I'm a few seconds slower than someone else. Not this time

mudshuvel319

I'm not privy to all of Ford's marketing info, but there are plenty of GT Mustangs for sale for the people who want to buy them. Ford does have to deal with the EPA fleet avg, but the Mustang has been selling about 2/3 V6 for the past 20 years or so. It's no secret that tons of people like the new Mustang, but not everyone can afford the V8. So the buyers who either dont care as much about performance, cant afford the extra price, or who have insurance & gas concerns tend to go for the V6. There's no shortage of GTs, so I dont think Ford would sell any more if they produced any more.

TomServo92

He's not referring to the F150. He's referring to the previous gen Camaro/Firebird i.e. GM F-body.

THRUST_

I didn't say there was a shortage of GTs, there isn't, but theres plenty of V6s around too. All I was trying to say was that there used to be a shortage of GTs when they first came out, but the V6s didnt really have that problem.

Sure they've sold that same GT/V6 ratio for years, but that's because that's what they make every year.

Martimus

Actually Thrust I'm not sure this is the case... Ford has to meet Federal CAFE regulations in order to keep the Fed's happy and avoid fines and/or other penalties. If they produced twice the number of GT's they'd possibly see a reduction in the overall passenger car fleet EPA estimated gas mileage. I believe in 2005 CAFE required an overall fleet average of 27.5mph. I may be mistaken but I think Fords 2005 average was 28.4mph. Given that I believe the EPA estimated gas mileage on the GT is 3mph less than the V-6, Ford would need to re-engineer another popular passenger car in their fleet to get better gas mileage or risk seeing their CAFE average drop.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/CAFE...erCarFleet.htm

From looking around on the NHTSA web site it looks like fines COULD get pricey for non-compliance. I found a reference that stated that Chrysler paid approximately 8.5 Million dollars in CAFE fines in 2004 alone. In 2000 BMW paid the Federal Government 26.4 million dollars in CAFE fines!

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/CAFE...D-SUMMARY.html

Stang281

I agree with the fact that Ford could sell more GTs than the current rate, but I don't agree that building at a higher rate than the current rate is the solution to doing that. I believe that better allocation of GTs to areas that will sell more would allow them to sell more GTs.

All it would take to do that would be for each regional manager to look at statistics of where the GTs are most popular (most sold), and reporting to the national allocation manager(s) so that they know where to allocate GTs to increase GT sales efficiency.

Regarding GTs being sold more (i.e. sold out at most dealers) when released, that just further proves that the GT allocation is/was lower than V6s. It started that way, and continues that way. There will be and was always more V6s on most dealership's lots than GTs.

I completely agree with Mr. Thai-Tang, regarding the potential success that GM and Dodge will see if they can come up with successful, more popular (i.e. majority of sales) fuel and cost efficient trims.

I don't know if GM is doing the right thing at this time, though. I'm almost positive they are losing their "Big Three" spot this year to Toyota. I don't know where Honda is at, but i'm sure they are close as well.

Personally, looking over Toyota's past and current state, they did an excellent job predicting the need for fuel efficient vehicles. They pretty much got rid of their not-so-great fuel efficient vehicles and replaced them with average to great fuel efficient vehicles.