Car and Driver does comparisons
10/4/06 | 10:17 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Shelby GT500 Member
Joined: March 10, 2004
Posts: 2,585
Likes: 2
From: Sherman, TX
Car and Driver does comparisons
And the Mustang didn't fair so well. They even say the RX-8 performed better in some cases.
350Z took the cake overall in the category.
http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?...2&postcount=65
350Z took the cake overall in the category.
http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?...2&postcount=65
10/4/06 | 10:33 AM
#4
Bullitt Member
Joined: October 12, 2004
Posts: 299
Likes: 0
The C & D comparo was simply a timed lap around a road course. The reason the mustang didn't fare well is because of the brakes, and the suspension is too soft.
Notice how the GT500 in that same comparo wasn't running right yet blew the mustang GT out of the water. This was due to its improved suspension and superior brakes.
Notice how the GT500 in that same comparo wasn't running right yet blew the mustang GT out of the water. This was due to its improved suspension and superior brakes.
10/4/06 | 11:11 AM
#5
Yeah, that Stang GT didn't fare too well at all on the road course. A lot of motor, but not much else. Fade prone brakes are not a new shortcoming and the suspension is definitely tuned more for boulevard and strip work than serious road course work, but that isn't real news either.
The GT500 hinted at greater potential for the platform, even if the soggy motor didn't allow that potential to be played out so its hard to draw hard conclusions here. Not a good showing for the Stang either, this time in terms of reliability.
Perhaps this might spur Ford to better develop the Stang's potential beyond stoplight and strip racing, either with some Boss 302'esque SE or significant chassis/brake upgrade on the '09 refresh.
But it is quite disappointing that a 2-liter, albeit SC'ed, FWD Chevy Cobalt could readily show the Stang its taillights, never mind the RX-8, EVO or 350Z. In fact, it only beat out the <200hp GTI and Civic Si and the 170(?) hp Miata.
Guess it shows that it ain't only about the motor.
The GT500 hinted at greater potential for the platform, even if the soggy motor didn't allow that potential to be played out so its hard to draw hard conclusions here. Not a good showing for the Stang either, this time in terms of reliability.
Perhaps this might spur Ford to better develop the Stang's potential beyond stoplight and strip racing, either with some Boss 302'esque SE or significant chassis/brake upgrade on the '09 refresh.
But it is quite disappointing that a 2-liter, albeit SC'ed, FWD Chevy Cobalt could readily show the Stang its taillights, never mind the RX-8, EVO or 350Z. In fact, it only beat out the <200hp GTI and Civic Si and the 170(?) hp Miata.
Guess it shows that it ain't only about the motor.
10/4/06 | 11:14 AM
#6
Cobra Member
Joined: May 16, 2006
Posts: 1,322
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From: NV
They tested the 350Z "Track" version which has a bunch of suspension and brake upgrades and starts at about $35K. Of course it was faster. They tested a normal Mustang GT premium (no suspension upgrades) that came to about $30K.
To be fair they should have tested either the the ~$30K 350Z "Enthusiast" version which is more comparable to a standard Mustang GT OR they should have tested the Shelby GT which is similar in price to a 350Z "Track" version and has similar suspension upgrades.
http://www.automedia.com/2006/Nissan...t20060601nz/1/
For the 350Z Track model, Nissan upped the handling by adding substantially stickier asymmetrical Bridgestone rubber (P245/40R18 front, P265/40R19 rear), plus stiffer springs, dampers and stabilizer bars. The brakes are even upgraded with big Brembo calipers, painted a racy gold color. Rotor diameters are pizza pan-sized 12.8 inches in front, 12.7 inches in back.
For the 350Z Track model, Nissan upped the handling by adding substantially stickier asymmetrical Bridgestone rubber (P245/40R18 front, P265/40R19 rear), plus stiffer springs, dampers and stabilizer bars. The brakes are even upgraded with big Brembo calipers, painted a racy gold color. Rotor diameters are pizza pan-sized 12.8 inches in front, 12.7 inches in back.
To be fair they should have tested either the the ~$30K 350Z "Enthusiast" version which is more comparable to a standard Mustang GT OR they should have tested the Shelby GT which is similar in price to a 350Z "Track" version and has similar suspension upgrades.
10/4/06 | 01:48 PM
#8
FRPP Handling Pack did my '06 GT proud at the PIR road course last weekend. And the brakes made it through (4) 20-minute sessions.
10/4/06 | 02:24 PM
#9
Bullitt Member
Joined: July 18, 2006
Posts: 433
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Nothing too terribly surprising there. First of all, the brakes and tires are the limiting factor there I would guess. Because the suspension is not that bad. I surly do not get the feeling that the car has poor body control.
I know the rules for this competition state cars must be stock, but take a GT and throw on some tires with the factory 18"s, brakes, and a little different suspension setup along with a CAI and tune and I have a feeling it would be a very different story.
I know the rules for this competition state cars must be stock, but take a GT and throw on some tires with the factory 18"s, brakes, and a little different suspension setup along with a CAI and tune and I have a feeling it would be a very different story.
10/4/06 | 02:34 PM
#10
GT Member
Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 154
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http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=104196
10/4/06 | 03:47 PM
#11
Mach 1 Member
Joined: June 27, 2006
Posts: 875
Likes: 2
From: Maryland
Nothing too terribly surprising there. First of all, the brakes and tires are the limiting factor there I would guess. Because the suspension is not that bad. I surly do not get the feeling that the car has poor body control.
I know the rules for this competition state cars must be stock, but take a GT and throw on some tires with the factory 18"s, brakes, and a little different suspension setup along with a CAI and tune and I have a feeling it would be a very different story.
I know the rules for this competition state cars must be stock, but take a GT and throw on some tires with the factory 18"s, brakes, and a little different suspension setup along with a CAI and tune and I have a feeling it would be a very different story.
That would be a Shelby GT.
10/4/06 | 04:05 PM
#12
Drag Strip, no care! 
Road race courses give a much fuller assessment of a cars capabilities in conditions that more closely replicate what one might encounter in the real world -- hill, dale, curves, stops, acceleration, deceleration -- often all mixed together, i.e., braking hard into a bumpy decreasing radius curve. It also tests to varying degrees a car's and drivers endurance too, often in rain and darkness too.
Drag racing, OTOH, is a much more synthetic and very constrained test of a car's and driver's abilities, basically being little more than a couple-second spurt down an utterly smooth, straight track. Pretty much the only thing tested is the car's drive train for a couple seconds under the most ideal of conditions.
I tend to notice that I drive for more than a few seconds at a time and have also noticed many turns, stops and other features in my daily driving. Thus, road racing seems to have much more relevance to how I actually drive and what I expect/hope from my ride. Thus, I find road racing much more relevant to general real world driving and a much fuller, richer test of man and machine.
But that's just me
As mentioned, the upcoming Shelby GT might have been a closer match to the 350Z, pricewise and presuambly performancewise, but that's little solace for getting whumped by the similarly priced Cobalt or RX-8.
I really think Ford needs to get more aggressive and "Bolder" in bolstering and broadening the Stang's capabilities to assure its market competitiveness, especially that it soon won't be a one-model Ponycar market.
Road race courses give a much fuller assessment of a cars capabilities in conditions that more closely replicate what one might encounter in the real world -- hill, dale, curves, stops, acceleration, deceleration -- often all mixed together, i.e., braking hard into a bumpy decreasing radius curve. It also tests to varying degrees a car's and drivers endurance too, often in rain and darkness too.
Drag racing, OTOH, is a much more synthetic and very constrained test of a car's and driver's abilities, basically being little more than a couple-second spurt down an utterly smooth, straight track. Pretty much the only thing tested is the car's drive train for a couple seconds under the most ideal of conditions.
I tend to notice that I drive for more than a few seconds at a time and have also noticed many turns, stops and other features in my daily driving. Thus, road racing seems to have much more relevance to how I actually drive and what I expect/hope from my ride. Thus, I find road racing much more relevant to general real world driving and a much fuller, richer test of man and machine.
But that's just me
As mentioned, the upcoming Shelby GT might have been a closer match to the 350Z, pricewise and presuambly performancewise, but that's little solace for getting whumped by the similarly priced Cobalt or RX-8.
I really think Ford needs to get more aggressive and "Bolder" in bolstering and broadening the Stang's capabilities to assure its market competitiveness, especially that it soon won't be a one-model Ponycar market.
10/4/06 | 04:25 PM
#13
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Joined: January 4, 2006
Posts: 3,907
Likes: 31
That is the same 2006 Mustang they have been flogging since last summer.
I wonder how many miles a on it and how hard they have been hitting the brakes?
Here is a picture from last year. Same car, same plate #.
Attachment 10754
I wonder how many miles a on it and how hard they have been hitting the brakes?
Here is a picture from last year. Same car, same plate #.
Attachment 10754
10/4/06 | 04:28 PM
#14
Bullitt Member
Joined: February 25, 2005
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Drag Strip, no care!
Road race courses give a much fuller assessment of a cars capabilities in conditions that more closely replicate what one might encounter in the real world -- hill, dale, curves, stops, acceleration, deceleration -- often all mixed together, i.e., braking hard into a bumpy decreasing radius curve. It also tests to varying degrees a car's and drivers endurance too, often in rain and darkness too.
Drag racing, OTOH, is a much more synthetic and very constrained test of a car's and driver's abilities, basically being little more than a couple-second spurt down an utterly smooth, straight track. Pretty much the only thing tested is the car's drive train for a couple seconds under the most ideal of conditions.
I tend to notice that I drive for more than a few seconds at a time and have also noticed many turns, stops and other features in my daily driving. Thus, road racing seems to have much more relevance to how I actually drive and what I expect/hope from my ride. Thus, I find road racing much more relevant to general real world driving and a much fuller, richer test of man and machine.
But that's just me
As mentioned, the upcoming Shelby GT might have been a closer match to the 350Z, pricewise and presuambly performancewise, but that's little solace for getting whumped by the similarly priced Cobalt or RX-8.
I really think Ford needs to get more aggressive and "Bolder" in bolstering and broadening the Stang's capabilities to assure its market competitiveness, especially that it soon won't be a one-model Ponycar market.
Road race courses give a much fuller assessment of a cars capabilities in conditions that more closely replicate what one might encounter in the real world -- hill, dale, curves, stops, acceleration, deceleration -- often all mixed together, i.e., braking hard into a bumpy decreasing radius curve. It also tests to varying degrees a car's and drivers endurance too, often in rain and darkness too.
Drag racing, OTOH, is a much more synthetic and very constrained test of a car's and driver's abilities, basically being little more than a couple-second spurt down an utterly smooth, straight track. Pretty much the only thing tested is the car's drive train for a couple seconds under the most ideal of conditions.
I tend to notice that I drive for more than a few seconds at a time and have also noticed many turns, stops and other features in my daily driving. Thus, road racing seems to have much more relevance to how I actually drive and what I expect/hope from my ride. Thus, I find road racing much more relevant to general real world driving and a much fuller, richer test of man and machine.
But that's just me
As mentioned, the upcoming Shelby GT might have been a closer match to the 350Z, pricewise and presuambly performancewise, but that's little solace for getting whumped by the similarly priced Cobalt or RX-8.
I really think Ford needs to get more aggressive and "Bolder" in bolstering and broadening the Stang's capabilities to assure its market competitiveness, especially that it soon won't be a one-model Ponycar market.
And it's not just you, I am right there with you !
10/4/06 | 04:45 PM
#15
GT Member
Joined: August 8, 2006
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Drag Strip, no care!
Road race courses give a much fuller assessment of a cars capabilities in conditions that more closely replicate what one might encounter in the real world -- hill, dale, curves, stops, acceleration, deceleration -- often all mixed together, i.e., braking hard into a bumpy decreasing radius curve. It also tests to varying degrees a car's and drivers endurance too, often in rain and darkness too.
Drag racing, OTOH, is a much more synthetic and very constrained test of a car's and driver's abilities, basically being little more than a couple-second spurt down an utterly smooth, straight track. Pretty much the only thing tested is the car's drive train for a couple seconds under the most ideal of conditions.
I tend to notice that I drive for more than a few seconds at a time and have also noticed many turns, stops and other features in my daily driving. Thus, road racing seems to have much more relevance to how I actually drive and what I expect/hope from my ride. Thus, I find road racing much more relevant to general real world driving and a much fuller, richer test of man and machine.
But that's just me
As mentioned, the upcoming Shelby GT might have been a closer match to the 350Z, pricewise and presuambly performancewise, but that's little solace for getting whumped by the similarly priced Cobalt or RX-8.
I really think Ford needs to get more aggressive and "Bolder" in bolstering and broadening the Stang's capabilities to assure its market competitiveness, especially that it soon won't be a one-model Ponycar market.
Road race courses give a much fuller assessment of a cars capabilities in conditions that more closely replicate what one might encounter in the real world -- hill, dale, curves, stops, acceleration, deceleration -- often all mixed together, i.e., braking hard into a bumpy decreasing radius curve. It also tests to varying degrees a car's and drivers endurance too, often in rain and darkness too.
Drag racing, OTOH, is a much more synthetic and very constrained test of a car's and driver's abilities, basically being little more than a couple-second spurt down an utterly smooth, straight track. Pretty much the only thing tested is the car's drive train for a couple seconds under the most ideal of conditions.
I tend to notice that I drive for more than a few seconds at a time and have also noticed many turns, stops and other features in my daily driving. Thus, road racing seems to have much more relevance to how I actually drive and what I expect/hope from my ride. Thus, I find road racing much more relevant to general real world driving and a much fuller, richer test of man and machine.
But that's just me
As mentioned, the upcoming Shelby GT might have been a closer match to the 350Z, pricewise and presuambly performancewise, but that's little solace for getting whumped by the similarly priced Cobalt or RX-8.
I really think Ford needs to get more aggressive and "Bolder" in bolstering and broadening the Stang's capabilities to assure its market competitiveness, especially that it soon won't be a one-model Ponycar market.
10/4/06 | 05:10 PM
#16
Cobra Member
Joined: May 16, 2006
Posts: 1,322
Likes: 0
From: NV
The results would probably would have been a lot different if they had used a Shelby GT or a non "Track" 350Z. Especially if they used a Shelby GT with it's small power upgrade over stock...
10/4/06 | 07:41 PM
#18
Team Mustang Source
Joined: June 19, 2004
Posts: 6,840
Likes: 2
From: Phoenixville, PA
That is the same 2006 Mustang they have been flogging since last summer.
I wonder how many miles a on it and how hard they have been hitting the brakes?
Here is a picture from last year. Same car, same plate #.
Attachment 10754
I wonder how many miles a on it and how hard they have been hitting the brakes?
Here is a picture from last year. Same car, same plate #.
Attachment 10754
10/4/06 | 07:48 PM
#19
Shelby GT350 Member
Joined: March 11, 2004
Posts: 2,146
Likes: 1
The last time I checked the roads that I drive everyday they appeared to resemble a road course, not a drag strip. Drag strip = no care.
I agree with the other comments, given good high performance tires (not all season) and a brake upgrade (GT-500 brakes), the Mustang GT would fare much better in C&D's test. Just those 2 upgrades would knock 5 seconds off the Stang's lap time.
I agree with the other comments, given good high performance tires (not all season) and a brake upgrade (GT-500 brakes), the Mustang GT would fare much better in C&D's test. Just those 2 upgrades would knock 5 seconds off the Stang's lap time.
10/4/06 | 10:11 PM
#20
Mach 1 Member
Joined: July 25, 2006
Posts: 667
Likes: 1
As far as the 350Z goes, it wasn't a fair fight because they used the Track Model. The Track Model features Brembo brakes, a carbon fiber drive shaft, super-lightweight wheels, and better tires. You might as well be comparing apples to oranges. Keep this in mind, the Z is a two seater, a 6 speed, has an aluminum suspension, and has an independent suspension. The 350Z Track was in the under $30,000 category, even though its price is clearly above $30,000 ($34,550 MSRP).
I wouldn't be surprised if the Lotus Elise had the A/C delete option--Yes you can get that car without an air conditioner! One other thing that I didn't read in the article, the Mitsubishi EVO edged out the Charger to claim the ugliest car of the competition.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Lotus Elise had the A/C delete option--Yes you can get that car without an air conditioner! One other thing that I didn't read in the article, the Mitsubishi EVO edged out the Charger to claim the ugliest car of the competition.