Another greedy dealer in Baltimore
10/26/04, 05:48 AM
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I got a call from Koons Ford on Security Blvd outside of Baltimore, MD yesterday around 3:30pm saying a Silver GT 5-speed was in. I was pretty excited to head down and check it out since I get out of work then. So I head over and there is pretty Silver GT sitting in the showroom. Now what got my attention next is the Red V6 they got over two weeks ago was still there as well.
I go in and I talk with the nice sales associate I have been dealing with. She tries her best to tell me about the car while I sit in it. I have to say that the interior is not cheap now that I have experienced it first hand. I would put it about on par with my Accord and light-years ahead of the 350z or G35 (pre 05). It did not have the IUP though so it did look a little plain but not cheap.
After sitting in the car and getting a feel for it, I was interested in what pricing they were offering. I know I didn't want this exact one but I wanted to get an idea of what the dealer was looking for. She told me $5,000 over MSRP and sure enough, there was a sticker on the window with that. I told her that whoever made that call was crazy. Koons has always had a rep for being a sleazy dealer and it looks like this time it’s no different. The saleswoman agreed that it was ridiculous but she was new and didn't really have any say. In fact, she asked what I did and when I told her I work for T Rowe Price she asked if we had any jobs available related to her major. I though this was kind of funny but I felt for her trying to make a living. They aren't going to sell many cars like that (see V6 still on the showroom floor).
Of course since I was at the Ferrari (oops Ford) dealer I couldn’t think about taking it for a test drive unless I want to put money down on it. The saleswoman was very sorry, gave me her information, and would contact me when things got a little saner around there. On the way out another associate standing around a bunch of people said “I thought you were going to buy that car” and to that I said “not a chance for 5k more then its even worth!”
The bottom line is Ford needs to do something about this and quickly. The Mustang is not a limited production vehicle and should not be treated as such. I can understand a dealer wanting to get as close to MSRP as possible but over MSRP is short of criminal. When the 6-speed Accords came out in the spring of 2003 they were (and still are) a limited production model. Even so I was able to deal with most Honda dealers to get well under MSRP. If Ford wants to repair their brand image, the dealers aren’t helping trying to rape buyers. Every car I’ve owned prior to my Accord has been a Ford product but after seeing the price gauging first hand I’m not thinking about going back anytime soon. I was really excited about owning a Mustang up to that point.
I go in and I talk with the nice sales associate I have been dealing with. She tries her best to tell me about the car while I sit in it. I have to say that the interior is not cheap now that I have experienced it first hand. I would put it about on par with my Accord and light-years ahead of the 350z or G35 (pre 05). It did not have the IUP though so it did look a little plain but not cheap.
After sitting in the car and getting a feel for it, I was interested in what pricing they were offering. I know I didn't want this exact one but I wanted to get an idea of what the dealer was looking for. She told me $5,000 over MSRP and sure enough, there was a sticker on the window with that. I told her that whoever made that call was crazy. Koons has always had a rep for being a sleazy dealer and it looks like this time it’s no different. The saleswoman agreed that it was ridiculous but she was new and didn't really have any say. In fact, she asked what I did and when I told her I work for T Rowe Price she asked if we had any jobs available related to her major. I though this was kind of funny but I felt for her trying to make a living. They aren't going to sell many cars like that (see V6 still on the showroom floor).
Of course since I was at the Ferrari (oops Ford) dealer I couldn’t think about taking it for a test drive unless I want to put money down on it. The saleswoman was very sorry, gave me her information, and would contact me when things got a little saner around there. On the way out another associate standing around a bunch of people said “I thought you were going to buy that car” and to that I said “not a chance for 5k more then its even worth!”
The bottom line is Ford needs to do something about this and quickly. The Mustang is not a limited production vehicle and should not be treated as such. I can understand a dealer wanting to get as close to MSRP as possible but over MSRP is short of criminal. When the 6-speed Accords came out in the spring of 2003 they were (and still are) a limited production model. Even so I was able to deal with most Honda dealers to get well under MSRP. If Ford wants to repair their brand image, the dealers aren’t helping trying to rape buyers. Every car I’ve owned prior to my Accord has been a Ford product but after seeing the price gauging first hand I’m not thinking about going back anytime soon. I was really excited about owning a Mustang up to that point.
10/26/04, 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by bpmurr@October 26, 2004, 5:51 AM
The bottom line is Ford needs to do something about this and quickly. The Mustang is not a limited production vehicle and should not be treated as such. I can understand a dealer wanting to get as close to MSRP as possible but over MSRP is short of criminal. When the 6-speed Accords came out in the spring of 2003 they were (and still are) a limited production model. Even so I was able to deal with most Honda dealers to get well under MSRP. If Ford wants to repair their brand image, the dealers aren’t helping trying to rape buyers. Every car I’ve owned prior to my Accord has been a Ford product but after seeing the price gauging first hand I’m not thinking about going back anytime soon. I was really excited about owning a Mustang up to that point.
The bottom line is Ford needs to do something about this and quickly. The Mustang is not a limited production vehicle and should not be treated as such. I can understand a dealer wanting to get as close to MSRP as possible but over MSRP is short of criminal. When the 6-speed Accords came out in the spring of 2003 they were (and still are) a limited production model. Even so I was able to deal with most Honda dealers to get well under MSRP. If Ford wants to repair their brand image, the dealers aren’t helping trying to rape buyers. Every car I’ve owned prior to my Accord has been a Ford product but after seeing the price gauging first hand I’m not thinking about going back anytime soon. I was really excited about owning a Mustang up to that point.
10/26/04, 07:15 AM
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It's an artificial market created by dealers in order to jack up profits. Like I said before in my post I have no problem with MSRP. What Koons is doing would be the same thing as if Best Buy during the PS2 launch sold it for say $400.00 in stead of $299.00. Now I know people bought them and sold them on Ebay for more but the stores didn't jack people. I just would expect better business practices but this is why car sales will never be looked at in a positive light.
10/26/04, 08:53 AM
#5
I totally agree with everybody...Don't let one or a few dealers screw with your mind or pocket book...Just go elsewhere OR wait a little bit...That same car will probably still be there in a month or so and hopefully they will get the hint that buyers are not as stupid as they would like them to be. I know I wouldn't spend 5,000.00 above msrp only to lose 8000.00 the moment you went out the door. But then I don't have the money to burn and I would hope that those that do got their money by being smarter with a buck. :notnice: :notnice: :notnice:
10/26/04, 09:04 AM
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It's an artificial market created by dealers in order to jack up profits.
Not to say I would buy at that price, but it's a valid option for those not willing to wait a few months. Are they jacking people? Yes. But only those willing to be jacked.
10/26/04, 09:18 AM
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I went to the local dealer last night and still no 05's in sight. The salesman said that they just received the invoices the on Saturday and they should have the cars any day now. I asked him about ordering one at $500 over invoice. He laughed and said you are kidding right. I told him that I was serious and he responded that they are going to be starting out about $3000 over msrp when they show up. He said that there is 20 - 30 people coming in every day wanting to see the new car. I responded back that is fine let them pay that but I am not paying that for a production car.
Anyway I got my brochure and left. I will keep checking back and see what they actually put on the car.
Anyway I got my brochure and left. I will keep checking back and see what they actually put on the car.
10/26/04, 09:22 AM
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man, thats crazy. my dad just bought an 05 GT Black on saturday. he paid 500 under invoice. ill post some pics one day this week. it rains everytime i am off!
10/26/04, 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by SickofMyVWAlready@October 26, 2004, 9:07 AM
:nono: It's Supply & Demand - that simple. The car is in short supply right now and demand is through the roof. There's nothing artificial about it.
Not to say I would buy at that price, but it's a valid option for those not willing to wait a few months. Are they jacking people? Yes. But only those willing to be jacked.
It's an artificial market created by dealers in order to jack up profits.
Not to say I would buy at that price, but it's a valid option for those not willing to wait a few months. Are they jacking people? Yes. But only those willing to be jacked.
10/26/04, 10:50 AM
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So, here is my story about price jacking...
My gal pal and I are cruising down Beach Blvd here in HB at about 5:30PM yesterday. Of course, everytime I go by a Ford Dealership, I have to look to see if there is a 05... So I glance, and what to my wondering eyes does appear? A Satin Silver GT! I break every traffic and speed law getting across the 3 lanes of hwy, make an illegal uturn, break several more speed laws, and rip into the dealership. My friend, is just shaking her head, "Aw &$*%@@, I knew this was gonna happen". I have the car out of gear, and foot out of the door before the engine is off.
The five Salespeople sitting outside the dealership prolly thought "Easy kill, she is squealing!" Its true, I did squeal. As I walked up to the car, the sales guy says to me, "Hi Im..." I didnt wait, I pointed to the 05, and asked, "Is that sold yet?" He says, "to you!". I laughed and said, "Nope, I have a black GT on order through RSM. But, if you get one before he does, I will buy here." So he gets all jazzed, and starts his game. Didnt last long.
He tells me to take a seat inside it. So, I do. I look at him and say, "Do you have any Black GTs?" He says, "no, but we are Power Ford, we have the largest allocation of Mustangs in SoCal, I am sure I can find you one." NOT. Then I ask, "how many pre-orders do you have, and why is this one not sold?" he says, " we have had one pre-order, and this one was just traded to us by another dealship for our Black GT". During all this I havent really looked in the car I am sititng in. I look over, and note, its an Auto.
Now, no offense to Auto drivers, *I* personally dont like auto GTs. So, I look out at the guy and say, "Its an auto, can you find me a stick?" Then he says the most amazing thing...
"They dont make 05 GTs, that are stick." I about peed my pants I was laughing so hard. My friend (who was in the passanger side futzing with buttons and dials) started cracking up as well, and says, "OMG you said that to the wrong person."
I replied, "um, yeh... they do. I know of 4 people that have taken delivery this week alone." He says, "I talked to the guy at the plant, and he said they arent making them yet." and I said, "there was a quality hold, and a IUP hold, but I havent heard anything about a STICK hold." He looks at me, "Whats IUP?" I couldnt contain myself and asked him, "I bet you also think there was a problem with the heads on the GTs too, huh?" After the look of absolute confusion on his face, I say to him... "Oh, BTW I get XPlan." He says, "Oh, we arent honoring any plans here". And I say, "thats too bad, I wont be buying a car here, are you guys sticking to MSRP?" He says, "About 3 grand over MSRP." I look at him in astonishment, and say, "I would never buy from a dealship that is doing that. And I can tell you that there are plenty of people who wouldnt either." He says, "Would you buy it at sticker?" and I said, "Not on your life, I am paying $89 over invoice." Meanwhile my friend has messed with all the dials, and I wanted to see how the MyColor worked. The sales guy couldnt tell me, so the blond and I figured it out ourselves. He gave me the keys and let me turn it over, and play for a bit. I said to him, "I am not buying a car from you, so if you want me out of this thing, I understand." and he says, "Its cool. I havent seen anyone this excited about this car, have fun. BTW how did a girl get to know so much about the 05?" This time my friend about lost her bladder.
I told him, "there are websites out there, where you can find the info. The very same websites where people are posting addresses and phone numbers of dealships like you to avoid for marking up. You are losing potenially hundresds of customers." He says, "Someone will pay it, I know it." I said, "Yeh, someone will. But, this car has been sitting here for 3 days, and other dealships who arent marking up cant keep them on the lot for 3 hours. Thats the difference." With that, I got out of the car, and left. My friend said to me, "He lied to you, the sticker says $5,500 Market Adjustment on the sticker". I just shook my head. Idiots.
No, I dont have pics, it was a Satin Silver, dark charcoal int, auto GT. Cloth seats, aluminum dash. I was very impressed with the interior. Very annoyed by the sales team.
My gal pal and I are cruising down Beach Blvd here in HB at about 5:30PM yesterday. Of course, everytime I go by a Ford Dealership, I have to look to see if there is a 05... So I glance, and what to my wondering eyes does appear? A Satin Silver GT! I break every traffic and speed law getting across the 3 lanes of hwy, make an illegal uturn, break several more speed laws, and rip into the dealership. My friend, is just shaking her head, "Aw &$*%@@, I knew this was gonna happen". I have the car out of gear, and foot out of the door before the engine is off.
The five Salespeople sitting outside the dealership prolly thought "Easy kill, she is squealing!" Its true, I did squeal. As I walked up to the car, the sales guy says to me, "Hi Im..." I didnt wait, I pointed to the 05, and asked, "Is that sold yet?" He says, "to you!". I laughed and said, "Nope, I have a black GT on order through RSM. But, if you get one before he does, I will buy here." So he gets all jazzed, and starts his game. Didnt last long.
He tells me to take a seat inside it. So, I do. I look at him and say, "Do you have any Black GTs?" He says, "no, but we are Power Ford, we have the largest allocation of Mustangs in SoCal, I am sure I can find you one." NOT. Then I ask, "how many pre-orders do you have, and why is this one not sold?" he says, " we have had one pre-order, and this one was just traded to us by another dealship for our Black GT". During all this I havent really looked in the car I am sititng in. I look over, and note, its an Auto.
Now, no offense to Auto drivers, *I* personally dont like auto GTs. So, I look out at the guy and say, "Its an auto, can you find me a stick?" Then he says the most amazing thing...
"They dont make 05 GTs, that are stick." I about peed my pants I was laughing so hard. My friend (who was in the passanger side futzing with buttons and dials) started cracking up as well, and says, "OMG you said that to the wrong person."
I replied, "um, yeh... they do. I know of 4 people that have taken delivery this week alone." He says, "I talked to the guy at the plant, and he said they arent making them yet." and I said, "there was a quality hold, and a IUP hold, but I havent heard anything about a STICK hold." He looks at me, "Whats IUP?" I couldnt contain myself and asked him, "I bet you also think there was a problem with the heads on the GTs too, huh?" After the look of absolute confusion on his face, I say to him... "Oh, BTW I get XPlan." He says, "Oh, we arent honoring any plans here". And I say, "thats too bad, I wont be buying a car here, are you guys sticking to MSRP?" He says, "About 3 grand over MSRP." I look at him in astonishment, and say, "I would never buy from a dealship that is doing that. And I can tell you that there are plenty of people who wouldnt either." He says, "Would you buy it at sticker?" and I said, "Not on your life, I am paying $89 over invoice." Meanwhile my friend has messed with all the dials, and I wanted to see how the MyColor worked. The sales guy couldnt tell me, so the blond and I figured it out ourselves. He gave me the keys and let me turn it over, and play for a bit. I said to him, "I am not buying a car from you, so if you want me out of this thing, I understand." and he says, "Its cool. I havent seen anyone this excited about this car, have fun. BTW how did a girl get to know so much about the 05?" This time my friend about lost her bladder.
I told him, "there are websites out there, where you can find the info. The very same websites where people are posting addresses and phone numbers of dealships like you to avoid for marking up. You are losing potenially hundresds of customers." He says, "Someone will pay it, I know it." I said, "Yeh, someone will. But, this car has been sitting here for 3 days, and other dealships who arent marking up cant keep them on the lot for 3 hours. Thats the difference." With that, I got out of the car, and left. My friend said to me, "He lied to you, the sticker says $5,500 Market Adjustment on the sticker". I just shook my head. Idiots.
No, I dont have pics, it was a Satin Silver, dark charcoal int, auto GT. Cloth seats, aluminum dash. I was very impressed with the interior. Very annoyed by the sales team.
10/26/04, 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by bpmurr@October 26, 2004, 7:18 AM
It's an artificial market created by dealers in order to jack up profits. Like I said before in my post I have no problem with MSRP. What Koons is doing would be the same thing as if Best Buy during the PS2 launch sold it for say $400.00 in stead of $299.00. Now I know people bought them and sold them on Ebay for more but the stores didn't jack people. I just would expect better business practices but this is why car sales will never be looked at in a positive light.
It's an artificial market created by dealers in order to jack up profits. Like I said before in my post I have no problem with MSRP. What Koons is doing would be the same thing as if Best Buy during the PS2 launch sold it for say $400.00 in stead of $299.00. Now I know people bought them and sold them on Ebay for more but the stores didn't jack people. I just would expect better business practices but this is why car sales will never be looked at in a positive light.
You can't compare the auto industry to a store like best buy cause best buy always has fixed prices, where car dealerships seldom do. This is what I think is wrong with the auto industry. if a dealer had fixed prices, we wouldn't have this problem.
10/26/04, 11:13 AM
#14
Originally posted by JessicaRabbitt@October 26, 2004, 11:53 AM
So, here is my story about price jacking...
The five Salespeople sitting outside the dealership prolly thought "Easy kill, she is squealing!" Its true, I did squeal.
So, here is my story about price jacking...
The five Salespeople sitting outside the dealership prolly thought "Easy kill, she is squealing!" Its true, I did squeal.
Wait, what was the rest of the story again?..........
10/26/04, 11:18 AM
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Koons Ford Baltimore is ridiculous with their markups. When I was looking at buying my GT, they had one up there that was close to what I wanted. Color, etc. I went up there one Sunday (they were closed), and looked at the car I wanted...then just looked around the lot. They had a few Mach 1s and Cobras on the lot as well...all with a $5K-$10K markup.
I don't think I'll ever be dealing with Koons Baltimore. Don't know about their service, but just the fact they do that "just because"...please. Especially when there are like, eleventy billion other dealers within an hour's drive from them.
Anyway...I know Koons in Annapolis has two '05s in...a black V6, and a red GT...the black V6 was out driving around on Saturday afternoon, and the two attractive females driving it told me what the dealer had. Drove by last night, and the GT was in the showroom.
I don't think I'll ever be dealing with Koons Baltimore. Don't know about their service, but just the fact they do that "just because"...please. Especially when there are like, eleventy billion other dealers within an hour's drive from them.
Anyway...I know Koons in Annapolis has two '05s in...a black V6, and a red GT...the black V6 was out driving around on Saturday afternoon, and the two attractive females driving it told me what the dealer had. Drove by last night, and the GT was in the showroom.
10/26/04, 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by JessicaRabbitt@October 26, 2004, 10:53 AM
No, I dont have pics, it was a Satin Silver, dark charcoal int, auto GT. Cloth seats, aluminum dash.
No, I dont have pics, it was a Satin Silver, dark charcoal int, auto GT. Cloth seats, aluminum dash.
10/26/04, 11:30 AM
#19
Originally posted by JessicaRabbitt@October 26, 2004, 12:19 PM
Kevin,
No jumping up and down, but, I did run. :P
Kevin,
No jumping up and down, but, I did run. :P
two thumbs up there, come visit my dealership! Oh, when its raining and a little chilly......
10/26/04, 11:46 AM
#20
Shelby GT500 Member
Originally posted by JessicaRabbitt@October 26, 2004, 11:53 AM
So, here is my story about price jacking...
...I told him, "there are websites out there, where you can find the info. The very same websites where people are posting addresses and phone numbers of dealships like you to avoid for marking up. You are losing potenially hundresds of customers."
So, here is my story about price jacking...
...I told him, "there are websites out there, where you can find the info. The very same websites where people are posting addresses and phone numbers of dealships like you to avoid for marking up. You are losing potenially hundresds of customers."