Jon_Purdy

Hello eveyrone!

After getting jerked around by my dealer here in Michigan (Blackwell Ford in Plymouth), I decided I should start looking elsewhere for a car but keep the current order in place, the idea being whichever car came in first is the one I buy. Anyway, I talked to a fellow at Ricart Ford in Ohio and he told me that I could place an order for an 06 by putting at least $500 down. I said okay, but what is the total cost? He couldn't give me the actual total, saying that 06 pricing hasn't been finalized yet. He did say that they are selling for $6,000 over sticker. $6,000!!!!!!!!!! Who in their right mind would pay that much over sticker?

Cheers,
Jon

69stang351w

Yeah!
Seems it's all being carried over to the 06 model! Man, when will this all end!
With the 05 there were dealers that gave good prices. Hope the shame for the 06!
Happy Trails!!! :mellow:

TomServo92

As soon as supply surpasses demand and dealers start having them sit on the lots for several months. They'll be begging you to drive one home then.

JPutnam277

Yeah, around Atlanta here there was at least one dealership, Gwinnett Place Ford that was charging $6K over sticker. They would negotiate down to $2.5K over sticker but no lower. Even then they made it out like they were doing you a favor.

ekessler507

Is it any wonder that folks just don't trust dealers ... PERIOD! :nono:


EK

ArkAngelx3

So how do you explain that to all the customers who have paid over sticker on our convertible mustangs, and GT's and couldnt be any happier!!

azoufan

Please tell me that I am not correct in assuming by that statement that you work at a Ford dealer and not only sell, but stand behind the fact that you sell, Mustang's at higher than MSRP?

"Get a rope..."

Sean

OBleedingMe

They're a bunch of naive stinkers who probably don't know any better. You exploited their ignorance. I'm sure that for whatever amount you ripped them off for you made it sound like they were getting a deal. Just because you screwed someone who doesn't know they're being screwed doesn't make it right. They'll eventually figure out that they paid way over what others paid and be very angry. They'll feel sick every time they drive their overpriced car, ruining any sort of enjoyment they might have had. But what do you care - you got their money! Unless you're the only dealer in town, this does not bode well for a word-of-mouth business.

There's a stinker born every minute. You found a few. Congratulations.

Mark05GTCon

"don't know any better"? Where do you guys get this stuff.. the car is priced too low (which Ford maybe will fix for '06). If the GT invoice price was $2500 higher you wouldn't be calling it a ripoff. You'd simply compare it to your other $28K choices and buy the Mustang.

If there is another car which is a better value for the dollar - buy it. Some guys act like a skinny deal is a birthright or something. Why shouldn't the dealers have their day in the sun? It's a hot car. It would be kind of dumb to sell it for less than the market will bear wouldn't it?

You can get a Thunderbird for $10K under sticker easy. If you want to win the game of "best deal compared to invoice" then buy a TBird. But Kelly Blue book is showing $1500 over MSRP as "market value" for the '05 Stang. It's reality.

What do you think is a bigger ripoff.. a Mustang at $2K over sticker, or a TBird at only $5K under sticker?

KansasCityTim

So, just because you, in your infinite wisdom, think it better to price the car higher than Ford offers it, it justifies gouging the public? I mean don't get me wrong, I am all for free market, and if you can get $50,000 for them, it is your prerogative, but it doesn't change the fact that it does nothing for goodwill and if people that were buying them were largely informed as to their true price, they would be pissed at the fact that the dealership, which does almost NOTHING, is retaining the additional value. The error in your argument is that I think most people would mind a lot less if they were paying more money to Ford, who actually designed and produces the car, rather than to a dealer, who is making 30-40% profit for doing very little to nothing. It is almost as if the dealers are being unjustly enriched.

Mark05GTCon

I think it better to price the car where supply and demand will be in equilibrium... I didn't invent the idea. And I think dealers do more than "nothing".

Dealers make maybe 12% on a car sold at sticker. That's with holdback and everything. If you can prove my math is wrong I'll stand corrected.

If that was all the markup I had to pay on other items, from clothes to guitars to stereo gear - I'd be a HAPPY camper.

I guess I just don't mind the dealer making a buck. I paid MSRP - I was willing to do without the car at a higher price than that. But I wasn't cussing the dealer for charging that much... just meant I had to try another car or look somewhere else. Got lucky I feel for MSRP - even though I know some guys are doing better than that.

gashaus34

I wonder how long Ford will string this shortage out... If they have a backlog of people who couldn't get an 05, they're going to have a built in backlog again in 06.
I can't understand why ANYONE would pay $6,000 over. You could search until you find one at MSRP and have it shipped from anywhere in the country for less than that.

OSUstangfan

Do you think these people that pay over MSRP will ever come back to your dealership?? Much less buy a Ford again? I guess it does benefit the dealer...momentarily, but in the long run hurts the company and the industry.

Mark05GTCon

I agree that a person who paid me $6K over MSRP might never forgive me after they sober up. But I'd learn to live with it - that equals a lifetime of x-plan sales.

I'm not a dealer anyway. I'm sure nobody with an internet connection is paying $6K markups... or if they are, it's chump change to them.

jungleman

check out Russ Milne in Michigan. I ordered mine A plan. I bought one for my son and shipped it to California, cost me $1500 over A plan for that one. I was put in the middle of that one. It still was cheaper to buy here and spend the money to ship to California. These were both 2005 models.

Horseowner

The key word that's being overlooked in this discussion is the word "Suggested"... MSRP = the Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price." A price that they believe is fair to both buyer and seller. And it's only that... a suggestion.

If you have any doubts about it being nothing more than a "Suggestion" just stand in the corner of any car dealership 365 days a year and see how many times a customer says, "How much for this red baby" and the salesman replies, "Well sir... the 'suggested' retail price is there on the window sticker." In 999 cases out 1000 the customer replies: "Sticker price!?!? You don't SERIOUSLY expect me to pay the Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price!!! Sharpen your pencil and give me your lowest price!!"

That's because supply exceeds demand and no customer feels obligated to pay the SUGGESTED price when they're in a strong bargaining position. Likewise- when demand exceeds supply, no dealer is going to give away a limited supply vehicle.

LONG GONE are the days of a small town dealership, (they didn't use the word dealership then.. it was called an agency) who had been there 40 years and knew everyone by name in town and had to count on keeping the 1800 folks in town as loyal customers for the rest of their natural lives.

Today the average person moves and relocates every 5 years... (20% of any given population relocates every year) people shop dozens of dealerships in a 200 mile radius via the internet, etc. Customers have no more loyalty than dealerships or salesmen. The American way of life is all about supply and demand.

I've owned more than 40 vehicles and I've only gone back to the same dealership TWICE in all those transactions. I'm often looking for a different brand, or a used car and I'm ALWAYS looking for the best deal in the metroplex.

So when we complain about a dealer having a rare GT (Do YOU see them sitting on the lots in your neighborhood? NOT!) and wanting to make the maximum profit on it... just try to remember the last time you walked in to buy something like an Explorer or an F150 where there were 100 of them lined up on the lot and demanded to buy one for the "Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price?"

"But sir... we're offering Explorers for $100 over invoice this weekend... up to $7,000 OFF the MSRP?!?!"

"Don't give me that bull, boy. I KNOW what the "Suggested" price is and by golly I'm going to pay it!!!"



Nope... it's supply and demand- plain and simple. The manufactuer offers a price "suggestion" and not one transaction in 1000 actually takes place at the "Suggested" retail price. Most take place at less... a few take place at more. Welcome to capitalism 101.

I'm NOT a dealer or salesman but I do understand economics. (I was fortunate to buy mine at $2200 BELOW MSRP (X-plan) BTW but would have paid MSRP and MIGHT have paid MORE than MSRP. The car is worth FAR, FAR more than the "Suggested" price. I don't know of any vehicle on the market for less than $35K that I would RATHER own- TRULY. The other vehicle I was considering was a Nissan 350Z at about that $35K price and after driving the two I'd MUCH rather have the Mustang GT even if the prices were identical!!!

Steve- A happy GT owner who doesn't really care how much Ford "Suggests" the car is worth. Everytime I see people staring or I light 'em up in 2nd, I KNOW what the car's worth to ME!

OBleedingMe

I'm not saying that a dealer shouldn't be allowed to charge what they want for vehicle. Heck no! If you have price fixing then you wind up paying what the government THINKS you should pay for a certain item. Then they have the power to control what you buy.

I'm a believer in the free market, but I'm also a believer in free speech. Like I said, a dealer can charge whatever they want, but that doesn't mean that I have to sit there, shrug my shoulders, and say "Oh well! Supply and demand!" No sir. I can spread the word on dealerships marking up their vehicles. I can play dealerships against each other to try and get the best price possible.

And, perhaps most importantly, I can berate any blockhead who deludes himself into thinking their $25k car is actually worth $35k. Every idiot who pays a markup gives a dealership more confidence that people are stupid enough to pay these prices. The second they have your money, they call up all their fellow dealers and let them know that some schmuck just paid a $6k markup on an '05 Mustang. "Hey, maybe we can up the markup to $10k and drag another $4k out of these stinkers!"

Selling cars is a business, and in business there will always be people ready to take advantage of the weak and submissive. Remember that.

I guess I can see why someone who paid over MSRP will try to justify it by crowing about the free market and supply and demand. They gave in, whether it be due to inexperience, intimidation, or they were just caught up in the heat of the moment. They don't want to admit they screwed up. They don't want to face reality. They don't want to have that sick feeling in their stomach knowing they lost five or ten thousand dollars on a markup that meant nothing the second they drove off the lot.

The only acceptable excuse for paying a markup (in my estimation) is if you're wealthy. Then it doesn't matter because the dealerships won't be encouraged to hike their prices. They know a wealthy person is an exception to the rule. They base their pricing on what we, the general public, are willing to pay.

You want those markups to go away? THEN STOP PAYING THEM. It's as simple as that.

psychen6

When I bought my car, I used the Rizzo Method. Got a good deal that way. You might want to give it a try.

KansasCityTim

Alright...here is the math. Our test subject will be a sparkling new GT Premium with all the goodies...upgrade wheels, IUP, anti-theft, airbags, wheels locks and shaker 1000. Its MSRP is $29,365. Dealer cost after receiving holdback is $25,843. This gives the dealer a 13.6% profit if they sell it for MSRP. Obviously there is some upkeep, storage, and maintenance of a particular unit, but I would contend that 13.6% is healthy to say the least.

Now let's add on some "market adjustments", aka customer gouging. With a $1000 "adjustment", the dealer takes 17.5% over cost; $2000 and we are up to 21.4%; on up to a max I have heard of $6000 for a whopping 36.8%. That is simply atrocious. As I stated in a previous post, I won't argue the mustang is a solid value, and I would think it less maddening if the extra money was going to the firm that designed and builds the Mustang, namely Ford, but I cannot see giving the dealers all the extra money and increasing their profit margins when they do next to nothing in the process. They order and distribute the cars...that's it. Furthermore, customers have no choice but to purchase a car through this distribution system. There is no alternative to going to a Ford dealer. Clearly you have choices among dealers, but I am sure there are places where people have access to few dealers who all may be marking them up. In the end, dealer mark-ups are not "market adjustment"...they are based on a monopolistic practice and collusion inherent in the only available distribution chain.

WISCWBGT

I do have to mention that I saw an '05 GT Convert (loaded) for $45K on a showroom in Wisconsin.
There was no window sticker in sight, of course.
By my math - that's about $12K - $13K over MSRP.

I understand supply and demand, but this was too much.

Brad