CUON24

i personally would not buy the mustang....i would get an rx-7 3rd gen....the reason im getting the mustang is because its american...im sick of everyone who 'loves' our country but drives a toyota. AMERICAN BUILT OR BUST

2005muzzy

I don't wanna hear that kind of talk!!! Mama is gonna wash your mouth out with soap!!!

FrankBullitt05

umm, if it was the exact same car, except it was built in Japan or Korea or England or Germany or whatever...I would still get it, but it just wouldn't feel right...it wouldn't be a Mustang

In any case, I think the whole debate over import v domestic is losing weight as more and more 'Japanese' cars are being built in the states and 'American' cars are being built in China...so go figure

CUON24

the mustang is made out of japanese metal.... Screw toyota...they have the overweight dyno queen supra ::thumbs down::

TampaBear67

La... La..... La.... La.... La.... La.... La... La... La...La...! I Can't Hear You! La... La... La.....La.... La... La... La.........................

gw186

I dont think I would like the car as much if it wasnt a mustang.

BillP

Charles-

If your mom dressed like your girlfriend, would you "hit it"?

Slapping the Mustang name on a car doesn't make it a Mustang. Think about the Avanti II, the Mustang II, etc.

autothing

Yeah, I think this topic is a moot point -- this isn't even speculation -- it's just crazy, lol

Robert

I wonder what news that is? It could actually be a very good thing.

Please define what makes an "American built" car?

And if you only want to "buy American," as it were, then I must assume you hate all the outsourcing that the Bush administation has backed.

Exactly right. So let's stop spittin' chewin' tobacco for a second and tackle this question folks: Is Daimler-Chrysler an American company or a German company?

You're entilted to your opinion, of course, but Toyota make the best cars in the world, overall, and you're hatred of them doesn't change that fact. And the Supra was an awesome vehicle...which will likely be back.

A Ford/Toyota union could be a very good thing.

autothing

Robert - good points and enjoy the further wrath of Toyota haters round these parts, lol... As for Ford and Toyota, I think Ford is using Toyota technology to help them mainstream the hybrid car revolution.

It's probably a Toyota Trojan Horse and all those nice Japanese people will spring out to crush mighty Ford with their ugly, UGLY Toyota Echos powered by rabid gerbils. Well ok, that's what I heard at least

CUON24

American Built is simply that...dont read into it too much. It simply means assembled here as a whole in the U.S. I understand that your probably going to wine "well the 3rd nut on the intake manifold was actually made in the southeastern portion of Japan...and oh oh that front fender weld actually came as an assembly from China" or whatever...but you get the gist of what im saying. I want to see American workers building my car.

Who says Toyota makes the best cars in the world? YOUR OPINION? Every Toyota ive been in has been a piece. The panels never match, their margins are horrible, the ride quality is nothing to write home about. They are boring run of the mill cars.

So i say this. Why dont we level the playing field with companies such as Toyota and Charge them a tax to sell their cars here? Like they do to American automobiles

And its not just the Bush administration my friend, this has been going on forever. America has been outsourcing jobs for a very long time. Its not just the President. So lets be adults and not make this a political battle because i am very politically in tune.

Now tell me from the standpoint of a manufacturer would you rather pay more benefits, more hourly salary, and more time to produce the same part that can be made in another country for half the cost?

I think we all know the answer

Toyota is successful not because of their "superior quality in automobiles" but rather because they are able to export their product at a cost that is affordable to the majority of the American public. Try exporting an American made vehicle to Japan...do you have any idea how many taxes are imposed on it?

Diamler Chrysler is a German company...if Chrysler took over it would be Chrysler Diamler

So before you ramble on about how great this union would be....i have news for you. There are a lot of people who buy a Ford because of its American heritage. Yes, thats right....I drive a Mustang because a Mustang is about as American as it can get ....and no matter how hard Toyota trys they will never have that heritage. It is not something that can be purchased with stock or on an auction block. It is something that every modern car lacks. Owning a mustang means owning something you can be proud of....its something that gets respect on the streets and is loved by the majority of women...how much better can it get?

I dont mean to slam the supra...but the Detroit area has produced nothing but a bunch of 600 hp supra dissapointments. Just what ive seen.

my 2 cents

tom_vilsack

No-mustang build overseas
No-mustang built by gm
No-2005 mustang called anything else

Call me a stick in the mud,redneck,whatever...but i want my mustang built by ford,built in good old usa,and i love the name...

Purple Hayz

You've clearly missed the point. "American built" is not "simply" ANYTHING. Assembled here as a whole in the U.S.? Put the crack pipe down. If that's your defining criteria, you are in for some serious disappointment. Would you consider the Focus, penned in Europe in built in Hermosillo (Mexico) to be "all American?" Would you dub the Nissan Titan, the production of which employs (and by implication, FEEDS) hundreds of American workers, to be somehow "un-American?" Your desire to "see American workers building [your] car" is admirable, but on those grounds alone which of the above would you drive?

True, the profits from the latter do indeed go back to Japan, just as the profits from the former go the suits in Dearborn. So I ask you, which is the lesser of two evils?

There was an excellent automotive article recently that detailed the futility of archaic expressions like "made in America" I believe it may have been on Edmunds.com.... B)



You might consider becoming a little more politically "in tune." I will concede that W's administration was not the first to see American jobs outsourced to other countries if YOU concede that no other president in U.S. History has ever made it so easy (and indeed rational) for American firms to do so. References on this topic (and the specific tax/labor policies that give rise to it) are widely available.

The incessant Toyota bashing is getting a little tired, no? I admit "best cars in the world" is a highly ambiguous expression. If by "best" we mean most exciting or powerful or steeped in heritage then Toyota scores rock bottom on all accounts. My "opinion" is that Toyota's vehicles invoke about as much passion as a can of Tomato soup. But if the definition of "best" refers to build quality, reliability, and value retention, then Robert's assertion was no opinion, but rather a sound conclusion based on the facts. "Who says Toyota makes the best cars in the world?" No single person, it would seem. More like millions of them. Spend 5 minutes analyzing the growth trajectories and market share shifts (not to mention profitability) of Toyota vis a vis FoMoCo/GM over the past 15 years. If the car-buying public "puts their money where their mouth is" so to speak, then the verdict is in, and it doesn't look good.

I for one will never purchase a Japanese vehicle. I prefer the styling and performance of the domestics, and I do cling to an ever tenuous sense of "American" loyalty. But that loyalty is neither rational (from a strictly utilitarian perspective) nor all that common, as recent sales data clearly show. In a nutshell, we (the domestic loyalists) are something of a dying breed, and this trend will NOT reverse itself until the domestics learn to beat the Japanese at their own game (ironic considering that WE taught them the manufacturing methods post WWII). Your tariff suggestion, while intriguing, is a non-starter. You need simply refer to Bush's much maligned steel tariff debacle (recently repealed, btw) as evidence of this point. :notnice:

No sir. To reclaim lost ground, to get American buyers back, we need to out-perform, out-design, out-manufacture, out-market, and out-class the Japanese. We need to quit playing catch-up, and get things right from JOB 1. The Focus is a better vehicle than the Civic. Hands down. But the Civic didn't launch with half a dozen recalls, and now the Civic outsells the Focus. The F150 is a better truck (sans powertrain) than the Titan, but the F150 had an outstanding launch, and now the Titan has barely made a ripple in the shares of full size truck sales :w00t:

Two textbook examples of how to and how not to launch a vehicle. From everything we've heard the AAI built Stang should go toe to toe with the imports on build quality and reliability. The task now becomes making such efforts the rule, rather than the exception...

Shea

The 05 Mustang kicks butt. Name one import that compares (performance-wise) for 25K. End of story. This thread is dumb.

Robert

That's the problem here - you're not reading enough.

Let me complicate things even further for you. The new Acura TL is built in the US, designed in the US (by American designers and engineers), but the engine comes from Japan. And while Acura is owned by Honda, Acura is strictly a North American brand - they're not sold anywhere else in the world. The TL is assembled by American workers. So, by your definition, the Acura TL is an American car. Yes...?

It's "common knowledge." Toyota/Lexus have the highest customer satisfaction index in the industry according to every major industry tracker from Consumer Reports, to J.D. Powers, to Lemonaide. The big mags back this up every time a Toyota is tested too.

Sorry to hear that. All my experiences with them have been good. My '86 Celica GTS was the most reliable and best finished car I ever owned. With 236K on the odometer, the engine ran like the day I got it. I had very, very few problems with that car. And show me ANY...and I mean, ANY four cylinder American car from 1986 that had the style, finish, quality of the Celica GTS. And not ONE offered a fuel-injected 16 valve TVIS engine! Not to mention the host of comfort and convenience features that car had!

Because they're too firmly entrenched. Too many people buy them and would be pissed at such a move. Also, Toyota and Honda build factories here, employee people, pay corporate and municipal taxes...well, you get the idea. They're good corporate denizens.

I'm delighted.

So what's your point?

Wrong. Have you checked the price of Toyotas recently? They're quite expensive, often a little more than the equivalent competition. Read the following to see how the imports are kicking our butts: http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0...utos-231621.htm

Agreed. Which makes the new made-in-America Dodge Magnum Hemi wagon, technically a German vehicle...or is it an American vehicle. It's made in the States, after all. See what I'm saying?

I agree, the Mustang - like the Corvette - has heritage and pedigree. The Japanese are too new to the game to have developed that. What they do have, and where they've been beating us, is in quality. North American automakers have fallen behind the world curve, and are only recently starting to get back in the game. For example, Toyota demands defect-free parts from suppliers, and is willing to stop production to correct problems, and uses many common parts for simplicity and consistent quality. Ford won't do that, although the reasons have in part to do with UAW rules and regulations, which have been another stranglehold to American automakers remaining competitive on the world stage. Check this out to see what I mean: http://www.noUAW.com/

Not sure what you mean here.

jgsmuzzy

I think that the main point of what is being said here is that the lines that define American / British / German / Japanese car "BRANDS" has been very much blurred by the "Aquisition" growth of the major Automobile manufacturers.

Look at ford......Ford, Volvo, Nissan, Land Rover, etc etc.

VW / Audi / Skoda

Mercedes / Dodge / Chrysler /

All the manufacturers are in bed with each other, all have their fingers in each others pots. In Britain, Ford manufacture supermini cars that wouldn't be given the time of day in the States because of their size and lack of performance. The reason they do well here is because of the amazing economy they give. Diesels are extremely popular here, again because of economy. With gas prices at $2.50 (£1.50) per gallon in the US versus $5.36 (£2.99) a gallon here, it is easy to see why American vehicles are large engine / large horsepower beasts!

Going back to it.......I still see ford Uk as a British company, they have factories here and employ thousands of people. We have Nissan, Toyota, Honda and other Japanese manufacturers here. :w00t: to them for employing our citizens, I may not like their cars, but I still class them as British as they are built here using many parts that are manufactured here, thus the effective employee levels are massive in associated industries.

My main point is that with the blurred lines over "Nationality" of brands, it is not as easy to define what is "All American" or "European" or "Japanese" any more........

Would I buy a Mustang if it was made by Toyota.......I don't think so, but that's just me

:flag2:

Robert

You've clearly missed the point. "American built" is not "simply" ANYTHING. Assembled here as a whole in the U.S.? Put the crack pipe down. If that's your defining criteria, you are in for some serious disappointment. Would you consider the Focus, penned in Europe in built in Hermosillo (Mexico) to be "all American?" Would you dub the Nissan Titan, the production of which employs (and by implication, FEEDS) hundreds of American workers, to be somehow "un-American?" Your desire to "see American workers building [your] car" is admirable, but on those grounds alone which of the above would you drive?

True, the profits from the latter do indeed go back to Japan, just as the profits from the former go the suits in Dearborn. So I ask you, which is the lesser of two evils?

There was an excellent automotive article recently that detailed the futility of archaic expressions like "made in America" I believe it may have been on Edmunds.com.... B)



You might consider becoming a little more politically "in tune." I will concede that W's administration was not the first to see American jobs outsourced to other countries if YOU concede that no other president in U.S. History has ever made it so easy (and indeed rational) for American firms to do so. References on this topic (and the specific tax/labor policies that give rise to it) are widely available.

The incessant Toyota bashing is getting a little tired, no? I admit "best cars in the world" is a highly ambiguous expression. If by "best" we mean most exciting or powerful or steeped in heritage then Toyota scores rock bottom on all accounts. My "opinion" is that Toyota's vehicles invoke about as much passion as a can of Tomato soup. But if the definition of "best" refers to build quality, reliability, and value retention, then Robert's assertion was no opinion, but rather a sound conclusion based on the facts. "Who says Toyota makes the best cars in the world?" No single person, it would seem. More like millions of them. Spend 5 minutes analyzing the growth trajectories and market share shifts (not to mention profitability) of Toyota vis a vis FoMoCo/GM over the past 15 years. If the car-buying public "puts their money where their mouth is" so to speak, then the verdict is in, and it doesn't look good.

I for one will never purchase a Japanese vehicle. I prefer the styling and performance of the domestics, and I do cling to an ever tenuous sense of "American" loyalty. But that loyalty is neither rational (from a strictly utilitarian perspective) nor all that common, as recent sales data clearly show. In a nutshell, we (the domestic loyalists) are something of a dying breed, and this trend will NOT reverse itself until the domestics learn to beat the Japanese at their own game (ironic considering that WE taught them the manufacturing methods post WWII). Your tariff suggestion, while intriguing, is a non-starter. You need simply refer to Bush's much maligned steel tariff debacle (recently repealed, btw) as evidence of this point. :notnice:

No sir. To reclaim lost ground, to get American buyers back, we need to out-perform, out-design, out-manufacture, out-market, and out-class the Japanese. We need to quit playing catch-up, and get things right from JOB 1. The Focus is a better vehicle than the Civic. Hands down. But the Civic didn't launch with half a dozen recalls, and now the Civic outsells the Focus. The F150 is a better truck (sans powertrain) than the Titan, but the F150 had an outstanding launch, and now the Titan has barely made a ripple in the shares of full size truck sales :w00t:

Two textbook examples of how to and how not to launch a vehicle. From everything we've heard the AAI built Stang should go toe to toe with the imports on build quality and reliability. The task now becomes making such efforts the rule, rather than the exception... [/b][/quote]
Very, very well said, my friend.

My family had a 1968 Mustang fastback. God I loved that car. Fortunately, my dad kept it long enough that I got to drive it for a couple of years after I got my license, before he decided to sell it. Please don't ask why!

My first car was the 1986 Toyota Celica GTS. It was truly a phenomenal car - often referred to as the "Japanese Mustang" - though it really didn't look anything like a Mustang. I liked it as well as our classic Mustang, but for different reasons.

And when I said "best quality" I was indeed referring to fit, finish, features and reliability. Toyota doesn't currently have anything that excites me product-wise. Although if I could get my hands on a 1967 Toyota GT2000...the Japanese actually do have some auto heritage, they just didn't export it back then.

So I don't have the aversion to imports the way some people on this board do. And most of the ones who do, go home and switch on their Sony TV sets and cook popcorn in their Panasonic microwave ovens - so what's with this bullcrap loyalty nonsense when it comes to cars?!

We used to make the best vehicles in the world. As I so often say: Show me the 1967 BMW equivalent of the 1967 Mustang GT 390. I can't even PICTURE anything from BMW at that time that came remotely close. Yet nowadays, we've got stuff like the M3. What happened? We got caught napping in the '70s is what happened. So it annoys me to no end when people rationalize the purchase of an inferior product in the name of "made in America." And now, "made in America" isn't necessarily valid anymore, anyway.

ponyboy66

"Who says Toyota makes the best cars in the world?" No single person, it would seem. More like millions of them. Spend 5 minutes analyzing the growth trajectories and market share shifts (not to mention profitability) of Toyota vis a vis FoMoCo/GM over the past 15 years. If the car-buying public "puts their money where their mouth is" so to speak, then the verdict is in, and it doesn't look good.
[/QUOTE]
Don't get me wrong, but this is a somewhat skewed view.
The fact that people buy more of something is in no way an indication of the quality. Especially in America. Don't tell me that Wal-Mart has the best products available. Quite the contrary. But, they are the cheapest. And Wal-Mart is the number 1 retailer in the world. Americans buy payments first, price second, quality and reliability third. Those are the simple facts. Americans would rather buy a $60 lawn mower every other year than buy a $120 one every 4. Perception is reality.
My 2 cents. IMHO.

As to the original question:
Mustang is a mustang is a mustang.
You have to define that. What makes it mustang? Well I guess everyone has their own opinion.
It's built by Ford, made in the US by American workers. Period.
If it were somehow built by GM, it would no longer be a mustang. It would be a car built by GM that has the mustang name. Perception.
I happen to dislike Ford. I love the mustang though. I always tease people about owning Fords, they say "you own a Ford". My answer..... No, I own a mustang.
This is based on my personal, past experience with Ford. Again perception. I'm positive that Ford makes great products, but it will not be my manufacturer of choice.

Robert

Not precisely accurate. Take a look at the price of Toyotas - they're far from cheap. They have, however, developed an unparalleled reputation for quality and dependibility.

That's the chief reason for their remarkable sales growth. Honda is a very close second for the same reasons...and in fact, Honda's are a little cheaper than Toyotas.

ponyboy66

Ok, I'll give you that. I think the mentality is changing that way.
I still believe my original statement is true in general.
If you also look at the production numbers on the '05 that will tell you how much of the automotive market is flooded with choice. The 65 sold 500,000 units. The 05 build will be 180k. Is it just more choice? Quality?
Value? Dunno.
I'm not a marketing or consumer expert.
Good points Robert.