91coupe

Going to upgrade to 24lbs injectors which mass air meter is better? The C&L meter for $150 or the Pro M meter for $210. Not sure which one to get. Both are at late model restoration.

skunk21

Pro M. good meter and tech. C&L eh. some guys in my local club have had issues and went to a Pro M and had much better results. Pro M gets more positive feedback than the C&L in my experience.

otmshank

Pro-M is better by a wide margin. If you're going to swap the meter and injectors you really should consider a tune. The EEC has airflow maps and voltage readings specific to the stock air meter. Once you swap out the MAF you effectively invalidate all the airflow data that the EEC has. Your injector size is also hard coded into the tune and should be changed once you swap them. Otherwise the EEC is calculating pulse data for what it thinks are 19# injectors. It's not too hard to change those parameters and there is a dedicated tuning forum at http://eectuning.org/forums/ with some really helpful members.

The car will run ok without a tune but you're leaving efficiency and power on the table if you don't tune.

91coupe

Thanks for the info. Gonna check it out. Another question... Do you think that My engine is needing to be upgraded to 24 lb injectors? I have a cai, 70 mm tb, cobra intake, gt40 heads with roller rockers and a ford b cam.

otmshank

I'd say probably not. You're likely pushing ~290 brake horsepower (if you've dyno'd differently ignore my guess) with that combo and 19# injectors are good at that range. That is the top of the range though. Try this calculator, http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx, and it'll spit out the recommended injector size based on your engine characteristics. I wouldn't recommend fuel pressure regulators to try and increase rail pressure as compensation for the lower injector sizes. Again that messes with what the EEC expects the car to be.

91coupe

I've never took this car to the dyno. Only took it to the track once when I first got it, completely stock with aod and even stock air box. Ran a 15.01.

It'llrun

Great info... I only knew 2 people throughout the 1990's who told anyone NOT to swap to an adjustble regulator w/ N/A(or nitrous) builds!

I'd go on to the 24's, with the Pro-M(didn't know they were still available). It won't be as efficient, but I have little doubt he'll be making some other changes before long, requiring more fuel.

skunk21

Yes you need 24s you are pushing the 19s on the higher side of the duty cycle. I don't care what people say it doesn't take much to push the 19s and an H/C/I is enough. I pretty much figured it was common knowledge that the ecc controls reading not the actual maf but otmshank hit the nail on the head with his info, the drop in wire that C&L has and even pro m is a way of tricking the ecc values, really you want a tune. 24s will carry you a good distance until you do something like boost but of you go to different head/cam combo in the future the 24s will still be fine and allow you room to grow.

I have 19s on my car with ported E7s IMO that is the limit for 19s, ported or thumper E7s and an intake with mild cam. HP levels are low enough to keep the 19s in check but even i could have gone to 24s to allow for growth. If you haven't already look to upgrade your fuel pump to atleast a 155lph and get a tune.

91coupe

Thanks for all the feed back.
I've already upgraded my fuel pump, that really seemed to help.
And when you say tune you mean I should goto a dyno shop or like a sct chip from bama or??

Skunk21. How much hp are you running with the ported e7's, cam and intake.

91coupe

Is there a mass air flow meter part interchange off another car for 24lb injectors. I seen you posted ones for the 19lb.

skunk21

Okay on the fuel pump good. Bring it to a dyno shop.
hasn't been dynoed but my buddy who I got the heads/intake from ran the same set up before he totally redid his motor.l I basically copied the set up and he dynoed at dez racing 270rwhp 315 torque. I'm somewhere ine the 250-270 neighborhood.

No. The #s I gave are eec compatible for the other mafs with 19s but have a larger bore. when going to 24s and upgrading the maf you need a tune. no ways around it.

otmshank

1993 Cobra uses 24# injectors. You'd need MAF, EEC and injectors to do it right. I think skunk is right about the 24#'s, it's better to have more fuel than not enough.

When I say tune I mean the do-it-yourself ones.

Get this http://www.tweecer.com/ or this http://www.moates.net/quarterhorse-for-fords-p-199.html and then this http://eecanalyzer.net/product_info/binary_editor.html and never look back.

On a personal note, I learned tuning from a friend using my 331 supercharged stroker with 42# injectors and a Pro-M. I followed that with the Cobra that wouldn't pass smog with the Ford E cam. My favorite example is the spark advance. Everybody knows that you get good power by getting the timing light, the socket and start turning the distributer until you detonate. With a tuner you can edit the EEC assigned base (10* normally) and/or the complete spark advance table by RPM. So if you're detonating at high RPM you can control just the high RPM advance. In the case of my Cobra the E cam was causing valve overlap which the stock cam did not. The EEC has parameters for injector firing times and the stock parameters were causing the injectors to fire when the exhaust valves were open causing poor fuel economy and increased emissions (California smog fail). I used the tuner to adjust the injector firing times which got me passing smog, smoothed out a mid RPM stumble and netted a 60% increase in fuel economy. This was a result that I could not have gotten by just turning a wrench and replacing parts.

Sorry for the wall of text but I feel very strongly that EEC tuning is the most powerful thing a Mustang hobbyist can learn.

skunk21

You can use the eec from a '93 Cobra like stated but it needs the '93 cobra maf to be a plug and play. really over thinking this thing. by the time you source out a matching '93 cobra setup and pay the price or by a tuner with a program in it you are really close if not at what a good shop would charge to tune the darn thing. I'm a huge fan of dyno tuning, you know what you got ..period. The thing will be setup and running sweet. this is my two cents worth.

onebadvert

I have not used this meter but it is said to be the best.it is programmable so if u decide to do injector changes u can simply reprogram it.

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...ter/index.html

91coupe

Thanks for all the great info. Now I have to do some more research and decide what I'm gonna do.