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Hello All - need some recommendations…. I’ve got a 70 fastback 351 Windsor w/C4 and 8” rear with drum brakes. I’m doing a 408 stroker upgrade that will have about 500 tq and 525 hp. I’ve got a ride tech Street Grip suspension upgrade installed and am very worried about the C4 and the 8” rear end.
Any thoughts on what options available. C6? Stock 9” rear end or a “built” rear end? Upgrades for C4? Manual 4 or 5 speed? Etc., etc…. I’m not an expert by any means. Don’t want to break the bank….. Help!!!!!
The Easy Although Not So Easy To Find These Days Would Be a Small Case C-6 and 9 Inch Out of a 69-70 Car and It Would Be Minimal Fab Work. Choices are Endless But Can Be Narrowed Down If You Tell Us What Your End Use Will Be! Just Cruisin Around, Touring, Track Use or Dragstrip Etc. Tire Size You Wish To Run. Really The More Info The Better!
A Few of The Old Timers Here Has Owned & Still Own The Older Cars Although Our Usual Traffic is Asking About 05 Ups! I Do Still Own Vintage Fords The Closest to a Older Mustang is My 73 Xr-7 Cougar! 351C Auto, Air. Cammed, Intake & Holley 4 Barrel Upgrade From 2 Barrel
Speak of The Devil Here is One of My Forays into The Past!
It Will Take My Noodle a Little Time To Go Back in The Day & Remember The Old Knowledge on the Older Cars! But it Will Come Back! For Me Back in Those Days It Was a Lot More About What You Could Find in a Pre Internet World! Lots of Book Reading, Parts Cars & Trial & Error!
Thanks Kc. End use will be cruising and occasionally shredding the tires. I’ve been in love with the 69-70 body style since I was a youngster, but I’m far from an expert. Born in 64…..I retired and now am building the car I’ve always wanted…..here’s some pics before upgrades… It is at shop now getting my new engine, suspension, instrument panel, and a few other goodies…. Power windows and locks, etc.
I’ve got cragar mags with BF Goodrich radial T/A tires , 225. Almost no clearance on rear fender wells with the street grip suspension so assuming I’ll need to swap the wheels and maybe tires no matter what I do. What about new aftermarket stuff? Currie, Tremec, etc., without getting crazy expensive? Gear ratio? Disc brakes? Blah, blah….. other aftermarket kits that will work?
A Lot To Consider. There are Those of The Mindset I Want an Old Car That Drives Just Like a New One. Basically a Shell on A Modern Chassis. Or Myself in The Case of An Old Car Like This I Would Want it How I Dreamed it as a Teen But Could Not Afford. Funky Old But New Oem Type Suspension Etc. I Can Still Remember What it Felt Like To get in That California Special in 1981 and All it's Sounds Squeeks and Poor Handling To Boot. The Feel of The Stock Seats and Exactly Where My Right Hand Was On the Ignition Switch & Shifter. So For Me a Transmission That Felt Like My 07 Shelby and Everything Else is Part of a Different Experience. I Guess You Would Call My Dream Car if I Had Your 70 Would a Day Two Type Car.
Now Some of My Old Mopars I Had With 4 Speeds My Knee's Would Not Handle The Clutch's They Had Back Then! **** Near Had To Stand on The Pedal Then.
Now Also to Consider is How The Body {Your Body} Will Handle What You Build. I Would Not Want As Loud as I Liked Back in the Day But Not Whisper Quiet Either. Since You Are Kinda Jumping Into This at The Other End as It Were I Would Go To A Car Show and Talk To Folks With Similar Cars & Close To Your Age To get Some Real World Input. A Ride in One Similar To What You are Considering Would Be a Real Eye Opener.
Just a Bit To Get You Thinking!
Fixed Your Pics too!
Absolutely Beautiful Car & I Would Not Stray Too far From The Look as it is Timeless. As Far as Wheels The Cragars are a Great Choice For Me But My All Time Favorite Are The Black Backed Magnum 500's and In No Larger Than 15" But That is Me I Like The Look Of The Old White Letter Factory Look Tires!
Everybody Will Have a Different Take But give Me a SLEEPER Look Vintage Muscle With a PUSHROD V8! The Sound is What I Equate With That Era!
With All The Muscle You Will Be Packing I Don't Think You Will Need To Steep a Gear which Can Be A Pain If You Go With Old School Non Overdrive Transmission. That Will Be a Big Factor. If You are Going Automatic Then an Overdrive Conversion Might Be a Way To Go.
Yes I Think a Trip To a Good Muscle Car Car Show Would Be a Really Good Thing To Do! So Many Options But it Boils Down To What Will Be Enjoyable For You! I Vote For Fast But Reliable as a High Maintenance Car Can Zap The Fun Right Out of a Project.
Great You are Starting With a Solid Car as Many Start With a Basket Case and Never Finish!
Thanks Kc. End use will be cruising and occasionally shredding the tires. I’ve been in love with the 69-70 body style since I was a youngster, but I’m far from an expert. Born in 64…..I retired and now am building the car I’ve always wanted…..here’s some pics before upgrades… It is at shop now getting my new engine, suspension, instrument panel, and a few other goodies…. Power windows and locks, etc.
I’ve got cragar mags with BF Goodrich radial T/A tires , 225. Almost no clearance on rear fender wells with the street grip suspension so assuming I’ll need to swap the wheels and maybe tires no matter what I do. What about new aftermarket stuff? Currie, Tremec, etc., without getting crazy expensive? Gear ratio? Disc brakes? Blah, blah….. other aftermarket kits that will work?
really appreciate the input. Mike
Wow beautiful, looking forward to seeing and reading more about your journey!
Thanks again Kc. Definitely a lot to consider! While I definitely love the 69-70 styling, I’m also a proponent of technology….. I had a 69 coupe 40 years ago but kids and wife (and lack of money) got in the way before I could do much more than get it running and paint it…. I bought this one about ten years ago and have been slowly restoring it. Everything except the engine basically. It was in storage for three years after I retired so now that I’ve got the time and means, I’m doing the engine and suspension and a few other things. It started as a 302 blue fastback with standard interior.
if I had one as a teen, I would have put all sorts of mods on it to make it a hot rod. Technology has changed so much since they came out of the factory and I have no problem using it where it makes sense to me and as long as it’s made for a vintage mustang. My only blunder so far was not even thinking about the rear end. I knew my C4 (freshly rebuilt with heavy duty TQ converter) would be ok for a while if I take it easy on the pedal but with 500/525 TQ/HP, the old 8” rear won’t last a week… I’ll end up breaking an axle or driveshaft etc. so I need to do something. My dilemma is what to do and should I go ahead and change the C4 as well.
liked your idea of going to a car show and getting better educated on options. There are so many ways I could do this from stock parts to high performance custom stuff with prices to match! I’m leaning towards a stock 9”, 31 spline axles with disc brakes but with the Ridetech suspension mods, I believe i’ll have to change wheels and or tires for clearance since it lowered the body about two inches and I think the 9” rear and disc brake mod add two inches side to side so current wheels and tire combo will hit the fenders. Definitely need to do more research.
Back in the Day a Lincoln Versailles Had The 9 Inch With Disc Brakes! Surely Those are Long Picked Clean. I Do See Folks on The Tv Builder Shows Using 8.8 Out of Explorers I Think. Would Have To Dig a Bit. If You Could Get One With Trac-Loc & The Gear Ratio You Wanted That Would Be a More Cost Effective Swap.
Hope These Vids Help You Get a Plan!
With a Non Overdrive Trans I Think 3.55 is as Low Ratio as I Would Go! Unless You End Up With Tubs and a Super Tall Tire!
Back in the Day My Big Block Mopars Really Liked The 3.23 and 3.55 Ratio's. Usually They Had a 2.76 Which Was a Top End Only Gear!
Back in the Day a Lincoln Versailles Had The 9 Inch With Disc Brakes! Surely Those are Long Picked Clean. I Do See Folks on The Tv Builder Shows Using 8.8 Out of Explorers I Think. Would Have To Dig a Bit. If You Could Get One With Trac-Loc & The Gear Ratio You Wanted That Would Be a More Cost Effective Swap.
Hope These Vids Help You Get a Plan!
With a Non Overdrive Trans I Think 3.55 is as Low Ratio as I Would Go! Unless You End Up With Tubs and a Super Tall Tire!
KC
The explorer 8.8s are long gone. I've been looking for one, and they're gone. A friend that has a garage said they can't get one, said people are putting them in Jeep Cherokee off road builds.
Here are Some Options For Those Hunting a Certainly RARE These Days, But Still Here & There 8.8 on an Explorer. And Other Used Parts You Are Searching For! Call For Unlisted Items!
I Found a Couple Here They Are Regular Wrecking Yards and Will Ship!. The Axle Assemblies Were $380.00 + Shipping.
Now Here is the Kicker. Since Most People Won't Want to go to a Wrecking Yard & Pull One The Pick Your Part Yards Have a Better Supply. Using a 1996-2001 Explorer with a 3.73 as a Source vehicle I Found Some in Indiana Where the Op is From. Hope This is Helpful to Those on the Hunt! They are Not Everywhere so Those in Certain States May Have To Travel a Bit So This is Not For Everybody But a Shot! Also Not Every Pick a Part Type Yard is on the Network So You May Have a Local Yard With An Axle Not Listed on the LKQ Network. Looks Like Under $300.00 If Your Game For The Pull & The Chase!
Hi KC- almost done with my project. Attached a couple pics. Down to inches….. my hood won’t close with the manifold and 750 DP. We cobbled together a drop base with 2” filter element (black on order) and it just closes but the carb vent tubes poke into the pleats of the filter top. Tried a shaker but no joy. The plenum stuck out over the hood. I really want to keep the classic scoop look but fear I’m screwed. Any ideas?
as an update - 351 W stroked to 408; 537 TQ and 550 HP. Went with a performance 9” rear end, disc brakes all around; ridetech Street Grip suspension mod, lots of interior goodies, Dakota digital dash, power windows, locks, camera system , etc. new tires that won’t last long,😆😆; subframe connectors, cup Holders!: Bluetooth retro audio with added door speakers; LED headlights; and so on and so on….
its been a journey but am super excited to get it back next week!
appreciate any ideas on the hood scoop dilemma. Want to keep the look with turn signals etc.
A Quick Look At Some of My Old Holleys Laying Around And A Factory Holley Spreadbore Has Much Shorter Factory Vents. the Old Double Pumper I Ran on My 440 Mopar Had Them Removed By Somebody Else. Never Had Issues With It! But That is Just Me! Ever Seen The Vents on a Marine Carb? Anyhoo Your Choices Are in Reality. A Hole in The Hood With a Scoop. Shorten Vent Tubes. Lower Height Spacer Plate, Change Intake Manifold Or Tweaking Engine Mounts To Drop a Bit or Mixture of More Than One.
Looking At Installed Pic Have You Already Removed Plate Vs Strap Pic? Hard To Tell!
Would an Oval Filter Fit in Scoop Recess Better. A Pic From The Top With Scoop Removed Might Be The Tell!
Thanks for the fast reply KC…. We definitely removed the spacer first thing. Thought about cutting the vent tubes down but my engine guy doesn’t want to mod a brand new carb. My best friend, serious motor head, said to just go EFI….. but since I was 16 yo, I’ve always dreamed of having a mustang with a Holley 750 DP…😆😆. Back in the 70’s that meant serious business!!! I love my new power plant and drive train…. It was built by SPEC Racing in Huntingburg, Indiana where we live and it’s beautiful, sounds beastly and I want to keep it as built and tuned on the dyno.
im looking more at maybe modifying a bigger “Boss” style scoop to add the turn indicators, etc. would be relatively cheap and I can actually do some fiberglass/body work. I was a licensed aircraft mechanic before I retired so it’s not completely foreign to me and I think it may be fairly straight forward. Do you know of any aftermarket shops that sell the larger scoops with turn indicators? I’d rather buy one than make one but either way….
really do appreciate your help on these things.
BTW- I went with 3.50 gears on the rear. Now I need to find a place close by so I can “explore” my new toy….. wife actuall told me today that I would be smart to put a 3pt roll bar/cage in it with a better seat…. For some reason she thinks I’m going to end up in a cornfield upside down….. might not be a bad idea!!!
Hi KC - read through the vent tube thread on the carb. I’m thinking that since I’ve got a filter top, that clearance to a standard solid cleaner top won’t be an issue and it should work just fine as an interim solution. It should still be able to vent to equalize as intended. Or am I stupid?😆😆. Thanks Mike
I Have Always Been Partial To The Factory Early 60's Hi-Po Air Cleaner. Here is a Variation with an Offset. You Would Think There Would Be More Pictures. Anyhoo Yes I Think a Flat Top Filter Would Be Fine With The Vents. You Have The Slice and If You Did Need To Trim You Could MimIc Slice.
Morning KC - I’m definitely keeping the 750 DP. When my youngest son inherits this car, he says he is going to go EFI with a super charger and a manual transmission. I guess he can do whatever he wants then but as long as I’m around,,,,, old school is old school and it’s going to stay that way!
I love the Hi-Po look myself. My original setup had the Hi-Po air cleaner on top of an Edelbrock performer manifold and Holley 600 with 2” filter and it was still a very, very tight fit. To get this close we had use a 1 1/2 “drop base” with the 2” element and filter top, which is what we ended up with and as shown in the pics. Barely clears the Distributor and carb linkages. We had to cut the The hood scoop “bold tails” to make it fit as they were hitting the chrome ring of the filter top. It’s functional now but not ideal.
im going to keep researching various solutions. I’m sure I’m not the only guy that has run into this issue. I think I’m still leaning towards the larger Boss style scoop modified to accept turn indicator lights. At least it will be an original classic look although not original to my car. I should be able to cut off the back of a standard scoop with turn indicators and glass it into the bigger scoop.
just came across another option I had not fully considered. I could go with a “Bug Catcher” butterfly style scoop. Obviously will have to rework the hood but this option would look pretty awesome and should work fine. They have black, aluminum, chrome etc…
Plenty of Flush Mount Amber Lamps Out There Such as Used on Heavy Trucks for Side Markers. It Would Make Install on Scoop Easier. Just Watch Out For Ones That Don't have a Reflector Incorporated. As Far as The Bug Catcher I Always Equate Those With Being on a 6-71 or 8-71 Blown Car not an N/A Setup. But That is Me!
If You are Gonna Run Sans Scoop I Love The Cobra Oval!
Hey KC- after thinking about it for about a minute,,, I agree,,, the faux bug catcher scoop isn’t a good idea unless it’s atop a supercharger. So far the only “fake” things in my car are the hood pins which will be addressed when I do paint next year. I’ve tried to stay true to this build and era so I’ll chalk that up to a momentary lapse of judgement!!!!
Which puts me back to a modified big block hood scoop. Since this thing will never see a rain drop, I do like the big oval air cleaner but I think I’ll focus on the big scoop solution modified with turn indicators. I’ve found a couple pics and if done right should look good and serve its intended purpose of letting the engine breathe.
if you ever need any help with a helicopter build,,, I’m your guy…. Just let me know!
Glad We Agree on the Bug Catcher! For a Minute I Thought You Might Tell Me To Autorotate!
Please Post Your Solutions after You get Er Dialed in! Maybe an In Cockpit Vid Someday! Love To Hear & See it Haul! Just Keep It Sane Don't Want Your Vid To Be a Cause of Damage or Injury! Roll Bar or Not!
Oh and Sorry I Was So Preoccupied With The Questions At Hand I Forgot To Say Great Looking Engine and Nice Clean Install! Should Haul Buns!
