12C/OBoss

Posted on AFM a little while ago... I am so pissed about this I don't even know what to say!! They obviously have a MAJOR issue with this motor, because for the last 20 years no tsb like this was ever issued for something as trivial as exhaust mods!!!!!

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...ning-mods.html

meanmud

Yeah, why wouldn't they allow folks to do stupid-**** things to their motors?

I do agree that a simple mod like an exhaust shouldn't provoke such actions, but when you start f'n with timing, spark, fuel, etc....

LateApex

Not that uncommon, really. Chevy, Subaru, Mitsubishi all do something similar - that's just off the top of my head. They still have to prove the mod caused the damage - TSBs don't change the law.

Its a high compression, tightly ECU - controlled engine. You mod, you roll the dice - same as it's ever been. A least it has been for the 25 years I've been modding cars.

black_bullitt

Initial thoughts... From the tuning aspect, I wonder if this is yet another measure to protect the TracKey. We've already seen Ford allegedly ask aftermarket tuners to cease and desist with the "ghost cam" tunes. This seems to fall in line with that. However, the other mods, well... I don't know. I wonder what the Magnuson-Moss Act has to say about that...

06GT

Nothing shocking there...

1BadBoss

06GT, that's the TSB I was referring to in my last post about the exhaust change. Mufflers are included. So do we take a chance and possibly void the warranty by do this simple muffler swap. I think this is BS too. Just covering their butt, or could there be other issuses with the motor or tune we don't know about and making any change greatly affects the engine.

06GT

Mufflers aren't going to blow your engine, and no tech is going to say that they caused damage to anything.

Read the TSB carefully--it is specifically pointed at aftermarket tunes, and other mods that require aftermarket tunes like nitrous, blowers, catless header setups, etc.

There is another thread here about aftermarket tunes and repeated failure of #8 pistons on the 5.0. Ford doesn't want to replace 11ty million engines because of overly aggressive aftermarket tunes.

06GT

This.

Big Vito

I need a tune if I put a turbo on? I guess I can trash that idea

chutoyy

Watch out for the "provisional warranty..." Loophole to the law... They won't "void" your warranty, but you 'pay up front' for the diagnostic/service and then they have a tech come out there, go through your car, and deem whether or not it's a warrantable defect.

Rather B.Blown

I find it funny that people are surprised by this. Yes, they can't do that. If the motor blows up and all you have done is change the mufflers, THEY CANT CO THAT!! Really? You may be correct under the law, but you better have deep pockets, because if they want to challenge it, you better hope that you can out spend FoMoCo on lawyers for the next 5 years to prove it. And in our current system, you'll spend 10 times more than the entire car cost to recoup a couple of grand in repairs. Is the case law on your side? Yes. Is it economically viable to fight it? No.

So have fun with your tunes, blowers etc.










(waits for someone to pop in a tell how FRPP blowers don't void your bumper to bumper 36m/36K warranty. Yeah, good luck with that when the differential or the tranny takes a s**t) Have at it. The lawyers will cost you 5X more than the repairs would have. Got to pay to play folks. If it could handle 600 hp reliably, it would have had 600hp to begin with.

Magnuson-Moss Act doesn't mean crap if you can't afford the lawyers to argue it.

LQQK

Well, looks like I'll be selling my corsa axle backs, I'm not willing to gamble with Ford-->

LateApex

Unless you are having a tune done to account for the new influx of horsepower from the mufflers -and you shouldn't, there won't be any - why? Mufflers are completely post-sensor and are really for sound only on these cars. To me, it's clear that this TSB is really pointing at tuning - the rest is just "supporting material", as in - "When people do xxx mod or yyy mod, they typically have a tune as well which is known to sometimes detonate this motor, so look for that.". The tuning aftermarket hasn't reliably figured out this 5.0 motor yet with a high degree of confidence, in my opinion, but we knew that well before the Boss was a reality. The Boss motor changes it up even more.

Who here remembers back to the initial 4.6 modular days? Yeah, it was pretty much like this. They will figure it out eventually. For now, the risk of running on the bleeding edge is likely not worth it. I'd like a few extra, usable horses myself, but only if it can be done reliably. Threads like this confirm for me that we aren't there yet.

cloud9

Good answer. I am betting this is probably one of the most aggressively tuned factory engines Ford has built. Based on it's performance per liter, it's unlikely there's a lot left on the table to be had reliably, and we don't even have TracKey yet.

meanmud

just don't hammer it for a while....

2012-LS134

In addition to LateApex’s good answer, consider what we are in effect doing to the exhaust system back pressure when we remove the side exhaust baffle plates? I can’t see how this would be any different than changing mufflers. Even straight flo-thru mufflers will yield similar exhaust system backpressure reductions as those gained by removing the side exhaust discs. Is Ford going to void the power train warranty because you removed the exhaust discs? I think NOT – especially when you consider how the Ford BOSS promotional videos describe the exhaust system has been designed for customer to remove the side exhaust discs or install exhaust dump valves. Bottom line, If you want a different sound, go ahead and change your mufflers without worry.

speedrx

I don't blame Ford, people do stupid things and expect Ford to pay for their stupidity. Ford is providing a warranty for what they built, not for what you built. Like someone said, Ford is not the only one to do this, they all have a similar policy.

Manufacturers have enough challenges with all the government regulations imposed on them, emissions, fuel mileage, sue happy people, etc. Make all the mods you want, just take responsibility, you break it, you own it.

fdjizm

if an engine mod damages your engine that claimed is not honored, it never was.
why is this news?

LateApex

It isn't.

P0 Corsa

Speedrx, Cloud9, LateApex and Rather B. Blown, all great comments!

Reinforces my intent to just wait for Trackkey (which is coming) and be happy with what the Boss team gives us. No one knows the software intricacies of the Boss 5.0 than these guys. May be more performance available but this certainly gives us something to grow into.