Tale of Two 'stangs

laserred38

Well, not much of a welcome, but we have a Ford CS rep on the site. Her name is Deysha. Do a quick search and send her a private message to get the ball rolling. That really sucks though.

stupidgenius36

Good luck with it. From what I read, I'd have turned you away too. You tampered with electronics, and now you're having electrical issues. That's the risk you take. Especially with electrical systems...all sorts of things are tied together and are very specific/sensitive.

You should be going after the shop that installed the stereo, but I have a feeling you'll have even less luck with that.

wheelman

Sounds like an uninformed tech if he puts out a blanket statement like removing your passenger seat or upgrading your radio will void your entire warranty.

Tale of Two 'stangs

Thank you! Message sent.

laserred38

While I don't share Sebastian's candor, I do agree that you should try the audio shop, and I would've went there first. I used to work at a very high end audio shop, and every now and then we'd encounter something like this. We would do everything possible to resolve the issue for the customer, including working directly with the manufacturer. Did you try them?

Unrelated, but what ship were you on, if any? My dad was on the Coral Sea in the early 80s...

Tale of Two 'stangs

I have visited the audio shop. The manager and the install tech explained install procedures and what was done to my car. Further, they went through the vehicle and made notes as to sync functionality and observed the airbag system warning light. They want to help correct the problem and even offered to speak to Ford directly on my behalf. I have a follow on appointment to ensure everything was installed per installation guides of audio system and sync interface manufacturers. Additionally, they provided all the technical documents (in PDF). Lastly, they contacted the above manufacturers to work through this issue. I am sure they are making a good faith effort

Further steps taken: Visited another Ford dealer across the state line and just said "I have this warning light that came on" and a service tech went out to the car. After he went through diagnostic protocol with a hand held device, he state there is no error code to read. He got a different device and got the same results. The service manager was called to the car and he brought along a laptop and ran a full diagnostic. This service manager and the technician talked it out for a few moments and came to the conclusion that an airbag sensor was unplugged. They checked the connectors under the recaro seats, then started the vehicle, and the airbag warning light was out. After my spouse sat in the passenger seat, the warning light reappeared. They offered to work on the vehicle, but I declined. I then proceeded to an auto part's store and the store manager attempted to read the error code with his hand held reader and it came up with zero codes. He did it three times to make sure. None of these folks said it was the non-OEM audio system causing the airbag warning light. I smell a rat!

I was a Quartermaster (Navigation Specialist). I served aboard four warships, one auxiliary, two service crafts, and one patrol boat. I received decorations for every naval (Joint) action from 1980 thru 2006. My first ship was the USS Forrestal (CV-59). However, I consider myself a tin can sailor; having served on three small boys. My favorite duty station was the Holy Loch, Scotland, with the Naval Station Panama Canal a close second. My favorite ship was the USS Nicholson (DD-982). I served a total of 27 years. Thank you for asking!

stupidgenius36

He didn't really lie to you. Although blaming it on the seat being removed was a stupid thing to say. He was just looking for reasons to give you for justifying the warranty being void.

It's not necessarily that the stereo *caused* the problem, but the potential is there. Anything non-standard just creates more variables to troubleshoot.

It sounds like the audio shop is doing a good job of trying to help out, so that's good. If another dealership is more willing to work with it, then stick with them as well. Some will work with you more than others, and it always helps to have a good relationship with your service department. Keep us posted...

jc46002003

This is what I'm talking about. These Ford dealers will MAKE ANYTHING UP to punt an issue that doesn't make them a gazillion dollars. At this point, I think the service advisors are trained social engineers in order BS their way out of warranty work they don't make money on.


How exactly did he put his warranty scpeal, did he say the warranty was void on the whole car or just the sensor?


If the sound system installation had anything to do with the sensor, it would have happened the day of the audio install. Not 4 days later when you use the seat. Sounds more like defect to me.


Further, isn't there a law that says they have to prove that any one after market mod causes any one issue? I've seen way bigger issues than this get covered. For example, number 8 failure with a aftermarket tune. They had to fight it but Ford ended up covering it. In other words, your dealer is really pinching the pennies. They must be having financial trouble or they're just extra greedy.

Talk to a different dealer. This time, don't even mention the audio system.

tom281

+1 drive to a new dealer. Hopefully the SA at the dealer you already visited didn't note it in the ford system.

Tale of Two 'stangs

I will keep everyone posted on this issue. There is a body of evidence that the products I had installed are OEM friendly and have a track record superior performance. I am waiting to see if the Ford Service Rep or the iDatalink Rep will offer an expert opinion, solution, or work around that will ensure new vehicle warranty integrity. I do not expect Ford to repair or replace the audio system or its components, but I do expect them to make a good faith effort to repair or replace systems, sub-systems, components, and parts that are clearly under their limited new vehicle warranty or any implied warranty and show no neglect, abuse, or extreme alteration. The airbag sensors, including the connectors, are OEM and show no signs of tamper.

Jazzman442

I would go back the dealer that wanted to help you out. Or discountect the data link and see if it still happens. All it takes is for them to mess up a ground wire ( potential difference ) and things like this happen. They should be reading live data not looking for codes. They can read all the data bus information and tell you what is happening. There is a circuit that measures weight in the seat then turns on the airbag on. I am currently interviewing dealers for some FRPP parts to be installed and there is only one person per my local dealers that do the computer work. LOL

Good Luck are there any dealers on this forum? Ford Engineers? On the Challenger Forum there are several. Makes it nice to trouble shoot this stuff.

Tale of Two 'stangs

Alas, the local dealership Service Manager already noted it and Ford Headquarters in Dearborn has been asked how to proceed. The dealership in Missouri did not go into the system. I declined the service appointment for that reason, but will keep them in mind should my local dealer outright void the new vehicle warranty or any OEM components or parts that have not been altered or show signs of tamper. the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act prohibits a dealership or manufacturer from voiding any expressed warranties, both written and verbal, and plainly states one does not have to buy OEM parts or components or have the work done at an OEM facility.

tom281

You are correct the Act does offer those protections however unfortunately sometimes it takes time, effort, and money to make a dealer follow the Act accordingly. Hopefully this is not the case here. Good luck.

stupidgenius36

Let's not blow this out of proportion. Again...You messed with electronics and are now having electrical issues, so the dealership was justified in turning you away. It's not like you bought wheels and they're blaming electrical problems on them. Hopefully the audio shop can get it sorted out for you.

You can mention the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act all you want, but unless your willing to put forth *your* effort, time, and money to sue them then it's worthless.

Let's say they do work on it...and, after ripping out the stereo and restoring it to stock, find that the stereo install was at fault. Are you gonna happily open up that wallet and pay for their labor and parts since it was your fault?

tom281

Man you would argue with a fence post. Do you really think changing the audio system would make the passenger seat airbag sensor go bad? The same sensor in my Bmw went bad when the car was two years old, was easily replaced under warranty but by your logic my Ipod interface should have voided my factory warranty lol. This is easily a case of this particular dealer being reluctant to simply understand the situation and looking to make a few bucks by running it through his service department.

stupidgenius36

For a mod, you sure do ***** like a child about everything I post. I don't know what the hell your problem is with me. But if you don't like my posts, then don't read them...simple. You don't have to start **** every time I post.

I never said it caused the sensor to go bad, but an electrical issue certainly could've caused the sensor to read differently. The actual point is that he's introduced an extra variable that's not their problem and they shouldn't have to deal with.

laserred38

In the case of airbag sensors, they are extremely sensitive to changes. I'm not sure how many circuits there are in the car, and/or how protected they are, but it *is* possible that a short caused a surge, that maybe, just maybe, made it to that particular circuit.

It's possible, but it's highly unlikely that the events are related.

tom281

First off I don't start or say anything every time you post, this is the 2nd time that I've responded recently after you've posted something that makes it seem like you're an arrogant know it all. Maybe it's just the way you come off? Or maybe you dont like having your point contested by other people. I don't know, frankly I don't care. Maybe try not to rub people the wrong way is all I'm saying. There's many different ways of getting your point across.

Now please back to topic.

Tale of Two 'stangs

Yes, I did upgrade the audio system. These products meet or exceed OEM specifications. If these products prove defective, the manufactures have already said they would stand behind their products. I am not having a general electrical system failure. I have only a defective passenger seat airbag sensor, either with the connectors, side airbag, or pressure sensor. This is very specific. No headlights flicker, etc. This airbag warning lamp never lited until four days after the audio installation and only after my spouse sat in the passenger seat. The airbag warning light has gone out twice, but returns as soon as my spouse sits down. Therefore, it is not an electrical system issue. It is a passive passenger protection sub-system issue. Further, it is a recaro seat issue know to Ford and other owners without an audio modification have had this issue and reported this on TMS.


Knowing your consumer rights and its protections are useful. I have all the time in the world to exert my rights. Additionally, I am educated in consumer affairs and have knowledge of business and corporate law. Further, I know more than one great attorney and several good ones. Most attorneys would take on this case under a contingent agreement, i.e. I have to give them part of my settlement. However, it is going to cost Ford more money to defend this case than it cost to replace the defective parts. Therefore, I win. It just make good business sense to settle.


Well, that depends. If the installation or products installed are faulty then those companies should repair, replace, and/or pay for damages. If I have abused these products or altered the professional installation, then I have to open my wallet. You see, it is good business to stand behind your products in such cases, it build loyalty to the brand. Companies who do not, the consumer will take their business to a competitor.