Steeda/Shelby CAI vs Airaid vs Stock paper/box
2/15/17, 12:58 PM
#1
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Steeda/Shelby CAI vs Airaid vs Stock paper/box
I know it has been awhile since the 05-09 S197 GT was the new hotness, but after tuning my 2014 SHO, I've found that the stock airbox and paper filter is more than enough for the car to run in the 12s with just a tune. The guys with cold air intakes are finding the stock box and paper filter works better and this has me wondering about whether I should go back to the stock airbox and paper filter on my 07 GT.
The Steeda seems to suck in a lot of hot air during the summer. I'm wondering if anyone has done any actual track testing or dyno testing between the Shelby/Steeda 90mm, the Airaid (They claim it is a 99mm), and the stock airbox/paper filter (80mm housing).
The CAI's for the SHO and my Cobalt SS Turbo all claimed 10-12 hp gains, but at the track that meant almost nothing in terms of 1/4 ET or trap speed.
My Mustang has IMRC delete, X-Pipe, mufflers, and my tune, so hardly a "modified" Mustang.
The Steeda seems to suck in a lot of hot air during the summer. I'm wondering if anyone has done any actual track testing or dyno testing between the Shelby/Steeda 90mm, the Airaid (They claim it is a 99mm), and the stock airbox/paper filter (80mm housing).
The CAI's for the SHO and my Cobalt SS Turbo all claimed 10-12 hp gains, but at the track that meant almost nothing in terms of 1/4 ET or trap speed.
My Mustang has IMRC delete, X-Pipe, mufflers, and my tune, so hardly a "modified" Mustang.
2/15/17, 03:11 PM
#2
Shelby GT500 Member
On a 3V? No way, the stock intake is a restriction on those cars. If you had a 5.0, I would say that you would be just as well off with a quality tune and the stock intake at your mods, but on the 3V the old JLT 110mm/Gen 3 I think it is called now or the C&L Racer made the most power & flowed enough power to get the most out of an All Motor setup. In your case, I think you would be just as well off with the Steeda. Even the Bullitt showed like .1 or .2 difference than the stock GT and pretty much all it had different was the CAI & tune.
2/15/17, 07:08 PM
#3
THE RED FLASH ------Moderator
On a 3V? No way, the stock intake is a restriction on those cars. If you had a 5.0, I would say that you would be just as well off with a quality tune and the stock intake at your mods, but on the 3V the old JLT 110mm/Gen 3 I think it is called now or the C&L Racer made the most power & flowed enough power to get the most out of an All Motor setup. In your case, I think you would be just as well off with the Steeda. Even the Bullitt showed like .1 or .2 difference than the stock GT and pretty much all it had different was the CAI & tune.
As most of the power gains are made from re-tuning the PCM and not so much from the CAI's themselves.. At any rate, unless your planning on doing serious upgrades such as heads, cams, LT headers, intakes or FI.. Anything above 90mm MAF on a stock 3v application is pretty much just overkill IMHO..
2/17/17, 03:10 PM
#5
Regarding the restrictions of the stock airbox, I agree.. However on a stock 4.6 3v there is very little to be gained, if any at all by increasing the diameter size of the MAF beyond 90mm, as the stock 3v is only capable of taking in the amount of airflow for which it was designed for..
As most of the power gains are made from re-tuning the PCM and not so much from the CAI's themselves.. At any rate, unless your planning on doing serious upgrades such as heads, cams, LT headers, intakes or FI.. Anything above 90mm MAF on a stock 3v application is pretty much just overkill IMHO..
As most of the power gains are made from re-tuning the PCM and not so much from the CAI's themselves.. At any rate, unless your planning on doing serious upgrades such as heads, cams, LT headers, intakes or FI.. Anything above 90mm MAF on a stock 3v application is pretty much just overkill IMHO..
2/17/17, 03:24 PM
#6
Regarding the restrictions of the stock airbox, I agree.. However on a stock 4.6 3v there is very little to be gained, if any at all by increasing the diameter size of the MAF beyond 90mm, as the stock 3v is only capable of taking in the amount of airflow for which it was designed for..
As most of the power gains are made from re-tuning the PCM and not so much from the CAI's themselves.. At any rate, unless your planning on doing serious upgrades such as heads, cams, LT headers, intakes or FI.. Anything above 90mm MAF on a stock 3v application is pretty much just overkill IMHO..
As most of the power gains are made from re-tuning the PCM and not so much from the CAI's themselves.. At any rate, unless your planning on doing serious upgrades such as heads, cams, LT headers, intakes or FI.. Anything above 90mm MAF on a stock 3v application is pretty much just overkill IMHO..
4/2/17, 10:51 AM
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Has anyone logged MAF flow with their stock airbox to compare with a cold air intake? I've seen plenty of dynos showing hp gains with a cold air intake, but I that's with the hood open and not heat soaked at the track.
I was at the track last year and with an ambient of 57F-61F, the IAT was about 108F and drops down to 84F at the 1/4 mile line. After a few runs, it will heat soak to 133F at the IAT and then just never drops back down. This is like 3%-7% hp loss based on the temperature delta (assuming 1% hp gain for each 10F cooler temps). I've seen much higher IAT temps in the summer when idling.
I was at the track last year and with an ambient of 57F-61F, the IAT was about 108F and drops down to 84F at the 1/4 mile line. After a few runs, it will heat soak to 133F at the IAT and then just never drops back down. This is like 3%-7% hp loss based on the temperature delta (assuming 1% hp gain for each 10F cooler temps). I've seen much higher IAT temps in the summer when idling.
Last edited by metroplex; 4/2/17 at 11:10 AM.
4/2/17, 03:27 PM
#8
THE RED FLASH ------Moderator
Unfortunately I didn't have the opportunity for doing a data log comparison between the stock airbox and Steeda/Airaid CAI's when I still had my previous 05 GT which was N/A, so I can't really provide a definitive answer to your question.. I do however think part of the reason behind the dyno's showing power gains with CAI's is in fact due from having the hoods opened with high-speed fans blowing through the engine bay..
IMO this provides a CAI with an unfair advantage over an "OEM" enclosed airbox.. Therefore I often wonder what the actual results of the power gains would be if the hoods were closed rather than open so that both intakes could be tested on the very same level
At any rate, I really don't think the design of the stock airbox itself was causing such an airflow restriction, but rather from the stock 80mm MAF housing not being large enough.. The type of airbox in which Ford should had used for the 2005-09 GT models was the Saleen "OEM" 98mm airbox that came factory installed on the Saleen 281SC and 281 Extreme models beginning in 2006-07.. That being said, if my current 06 GT was still N/A and "OEM" stock, I'd still take the Saleen airbox over any CAI hands down along with a re-calibration tune to be included as well of course lol.
IMO this provides a CAI with an unfair advantage over an "OEM" enclosed airbox.. Therefore I often wonder what the actual results of the power gains would be if the hoods were closed rather than open so that both intakes could be tested on the very same level
At any rate, I really don't think the design of the stock airbox itself was causing such an airflow restriction, but rather from the stock 80mm MAF housing not being large enough.. The type of airbox in which Ford should had used for the 2005-09 GT models was the Saleen "OEM" 98mm airbox that came factory installed on the Saleen 281SC and 281 Extreme models beginning in 2006-07.. That being said, if my current 06 GT was still N/A and "OEM" stock, I'd still take the Saleen airbox over any CAI hands down along with a re-calibration tune to be included as well of course lol.
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; 4/2/17 at 03:30 PM.
4/2/17, 04:09 PM
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Will that Saleen setup bolt directly to a N/A 07 GT? That hard plastic tube looks a lot like Steeda's setup that rubbed on my 07's coolant hose and power steering reservoir. I believe 05-06 GTs were different from 07-10 GTs because of the thermostat housing/hose setup.
The stock MAF housing is about 83mm. I was flowing a max of 35 lb/min with the Steeda CAI at 6500 RPM, and assuming I can flow that with the stock airbox, the MAF will see more than 4.7V.
The stock MAF housing is about 83mm. I was flowing a max of 35 lb/min with the Steeda CAI at 6500 RPM, and assuming I can flow that with the stock airbox, the MAF will see more than 4.7V.
4/2/17, 09:56 PM
#10
THE RED FLASH ------Moderator
Will that Saleen setup bolt directly to a N/A 07 GT? That hard plastic tube looks a lot like Steeda's setup that rubbed on my 07's coolant hose and power steering reservoir. I believe 05-06 GTs were different from 07-10 GTs because of the thermostat housing/hose setup.
The stock MAF housing is about 83mm. I was flowing a max of 35 lb/min with the Steeda CAI at 6500 RPM, and assuming I can flow that with the stock airbox, the MAF will see more than 4.7V.
The stock MAF housing is about 83mm. I was flowing a max of 35 lb/min with the Steeda CAI at 6500 RPM, and assuming I can flow that with the stock airbox, the MAF will see more than 4.7V.
So it appears I'll have to dig into the archives and make sure about this, as it's been many years since I last did research on this lol.. As for the Saleen setup, the airbox cover is a direct replacement for the 05-09 GT OEM unit.. In other words, only the cover is replaced but the stock airbox itself remains in place.. The hard plastic tube is also a direct replacement for the stock rubber unit.. However I cannot guarantee as to whether or not it will rub on the 07-09 power steering reservoir and coolant hose, being as the Saleen's upper intake manifold sits approx 1/4-1/2 inch higher over the stock manifold..
You may want to ask Dave from saleencars84 about this, as he would be the person to best address your concerns.. You could also find out if he still carries any of the Saleen rubber intake tubes in stock which should most definitely not cause any rubbing nor fitment issues whatsoever..
In the meantime, I've included a link below in case you might be interested in the Saleen setup..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hard-Plastic...oAAMXQrhdTSElA
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; 4/2/17 at 10:00 PM.
4/3/17, 04:09 AM
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Did you end up buying it? Does it accept the factory MAF? Do you have pics on how they cut out the bottom part of the box?
I used a caliper and measured 83mm. It's not a huge difference from 80mm.
Either way it seems the stock lid is good out to 39 lb/min. I was flowing 35 at 6500 RPM with the Steeda, and revved it that high just to get data at the track. I think 6200 rpm shifts might be more beneficial.
I n don't like how the steeda ran 70f hotter than ambient though.
I used a caliper and measured 83mm. It's not a huge difference from 80mm.
Either way it seems the stock lid is good out to 39 lb/min. I was flowing 35 at 6500 RPM with the Steeda, and revved it that high just to get data at the track. I think 6200 rpm shifts might be more beneficial.
I n don't like how the steeda ran 70f hotter than ambient though.
4/3/17, 06:14 AM
#12
Legacy TMS Member
I was running the JLT intake and tune. Then went back to the stock intake and a tune from the same vendor for a stock air box. I couldn't tell the difference at all in performance. Not going back to the JLT.
4/3/17, 03:44 PM
#13
THE RED FLASH ------Moderator
Did you end up buying it? Does it accept the factory MAF? Do you have pics on how they cut out the bottom part of the box?
I used a caliper and measured 83mm. It's not a huge difference from 80mm.
Either way it seems the stock lid is good out to 39 lb/min. I was flowing 35 at 6500 RPM with the Steeda, and revved it that high just to get data at the track. I think 6200 rpm shifts might be more beneficial.
I n don't like how the steeda ran 70f hotter than ambient though.
I used a caliper and measured 83mm. It's not a huge difference from 80mm.
Either way it seems the stock lid is good out to 39 lb/min. I was flowing 35 at 6500 RPM with the Steeda, and revved it that high just to get data at the track. I think 6200 rpm shifts might be more beneficial.
I n don't like how the steeda ran 70f hotter than ambient though.
Yes, I did buy it and still use it along with the rest of my Saleen blower setup.. And it does indeed accept the factory MAF sensor in which I also still run to this day.. In the meantime, I've included a pdf link for images of the factory airbox cut out with instructions from the Saleen manual.. Just go to page #15 and you'll see the images there.. Btw: thanks for also confirming the measurements of 83mm you took of the factory MAF..
As we can now finally put those speculation rumors to rest lol.
www.soec.org/manuals/supercharger/mustang/10-8002-C14338C.pdf
Last edited by m05fastbackGT; 4/3/17 at 03:45 PM.
4/3/17, 04:16 PM
#14
THE RED FLASH ------Moderator
From L-R.. Saleen Extreme 98mm lid/tube and Saleen Ultimate 95mm cold air intake..
4/3/17, 04:19 PM
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Thanks Rocky! I wonder why they cut the bottom of the stock airbox?
Are you able to datalog your ambient temp and IAT temp readings on the street and at the track?
Are you able to datalog your ambient temp and IAT temp readings on the street and at the track?
4/3/17, 04:37 PM
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THE RED FLASH ------Moderator
4/3/17, 05:02 PM
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The IAT and ambient temp sensors wouldn't require the O2 sensor. I can't imagine not having datalog capability! What kind of tuning device did you use for the ECU? If it is a SCT X-cal 2/3/4 you can use it with LiveLink. I prefer HPTuners though. Another solution is to use the Torque app on an Android/iPhone device and a Bluetooth-based ELM327 adapter that plugs into the OBD2 port. I don't like it very much as the ELM327 uses generic protocols and PIDs, not DMR's so the refresh rate is slow and I don't consider it "tuner grade". HPTuners blows SCT/LiveLink out of the water though and they're the only ones that currently support the 10-speed auto on the 2017 F-150s, 2017 Raptors, and even the 2017 GT Supercar.
Last edited by metroplex; 4/3/17 at 05:08 PM.
4/3/17, 07:54 PM
#18
THE RED FLASH ------Moderator
I do have both SCT X cal II and x-cal IV but have never done a data log before nor have any clue how to go about it.. Especially while driving at the same time
4/3/17, 08:08 PM
#19
Originally Posted by m05fastbackGT
Yes, I did buy it and still use it along with the rest of my Saleen blower setup.. And it does indeed accept the factory MAF sensor in which I also still run to this day.. In the meantime, I've included a pdf link for images of the factory airbox cut out with instructions from the Saleen manual.. Just go to page #15 and you'll see the images there.. Btw: thanks for also confirming the measurements of 83mm you took of the factory MAF..
As we can now finally put those speculation rumors to rest lol.
www.soec.org/manuals/supercharger/mustang/10-8002-C14338C.pdf
As we can now finally put those speculation rumors to rest lol.
www.soec.org/manuals/supercharger/mustang/10-8002-C14338C.pdf
Are our setups that close to being the same?
4/4/17, 01:49 AM
#20
THE RED FLASH ------Moderator
