bob

tru'dat! at this juncture in time the only thing that would kill a V8 is consumer pessimism.

exchallenger

For sure some people do need to become better acquainted with the coming CAFE standards, confusing as they are. Some people also need to realize that denying the reality of 55mpg mandates is just wishful thinking. Just because a market exists for a certain product (say, a 420 hp Mustang) doesn't mean it can legally be produced. A market existed for 425hp Hemi engines in 1973, but guess what? They were impossible to make due to pollution/emission standards. The impossible to meet emission standards of the '70s are being replaced with impossible to meet fuel economy standards in the near future.

bob

A V8 Mustang's impact on CAFE is negliable (even the GT500). If you guys want to worry about the feds killing V8's keep an eye toward carbon limits improsed by the EPA and even thats not full proof since a manufacturer can pad thier EPA/CAFE numbers with hybrids and pure electrics (which btw, the feds give a bonus to when calculating CAFE).

Here is a good post on the subject on a brand-x site

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/auto...e-cars-527559/

exchallenger

If we want to worry about Feds killing v-8 engines? If? Listen, they are well on their way to forcing manufacturers to kill v-8 engines. I remember seeing a $1000 gas guzzler tax on a Dodge Challenger srt in 2010. That's per car, for just barely missing getting a 27.5 mpg fleet average. And by the way, is it even a V-8 if you have to have cylinder deactivation to even make the inadequate numbers they made? Forget V-8 engines, you will be lucky to see V-6 engines in five years, most will be fours.

Rather B.Blown

I don't think its going to be against the law to build high horsepower, v-8, 10, 12 cylinder engines. For (most) of the greenies, yes its about carbon emissions and MPG and the environment. But for the government, its just about money and they are using the platform of the greenies to get it. You'll still be able to purchase a big hp Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, or whatever they come out with. You'll just be paying out the **** in additional taxes, penalties, probably even cubic inch taxes every year for registration at some point.

2 Go Snake

Dont forget the insurance companies. They will want a good portion of the money you are willing to pay for your high performance desires. In the future, high performance V8 powered cars may be sold but will be much more costly. Buy now or live with your regrets.

bob

Yet the 2013 GT500 with 650hp isn't subject to the gas guzzler penalty, nor were the 2011 or 2012 GT500s with 550hp. In fact the GT500s with the GG tax and the highest penalty were the lowest powered cars (the 500hp 07-09 GT500s), the subsequent 2010 GT500 had a lesser tax and as stated with the 2011+ models eliminated altogether.

I really think your fear is misplaced, why would Ford introduce the coyote/road-runner only to kill the engine in a coupla years? Why is GM working on a Gen 5 LS motor displacing 6+ liters (essentially an evolution of the current engine featuring DI and by some accounts making more than 450 horsepower) and I'm sure Dodge has something in the works for thier hemi engines as well.

BTW any vehicle capable of achieving 22.5 mpg or better can easily avoid the GG tax (which was implemented in 1978 and hasn't changed since).

http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/index.htm

exchallenger

They don't make enough gt500s to talk about regarding fuel economy over the whole fleet. Might as well be talking about Ferrari 430s. I have yet to even SEE one on the street. Concentrate on the regular high production number vehicles.
Even if you factor in hybrids and electric cars, and whatever mulitplier they use to credit them, you still need to hit at least 40mpg for the rest by my rough estimate. So if a Mustang pulls down 30mpg (v-6) you'd have to have an off-setting 50mpg car to average out and avoid the penalty. Know what a 50mpg car looks like? Not 50 highway mpg but 50mpg combined. Tell you what, all cars are going to change dramatically and not just the ones you probably wouldn't buy. Plastics manufacturers are already trying to figure out how to make lighter stuff with the same strength. Cars will lose up to 100kg per year, that's over 200lbs, per year! This is a freight train heading our way.

exchallenger

One more point, that the 2013 650hp GT500 didn't get hit with the gas guzzler tax is beyond my comprehension. It's kind of like how I don't understand how my soon-to-be traded-in enormous 4050lb Challenger, hardest car I ever in my life tried to park, is rated as a COMPACT CAR.

davesvt2000

As I said on page one, post #6

bob

Car sizes are dictated by interior volume, not exterior dimensions. Wierd but true

Should come to the tidewater area, I can count at least five that are daily drivers just like mine anyways, whats roughly 75,000 Mustangs (YTD) compared to 1.6 million total (all brands) vehicles (YTD), a puny 4%, and of those roughly half are V8 cars. The take rate on the Fiesta, Focus and Fusion alone account for roughly 340,000-350,000 cars and then you get into trucks, vans, and utlility vehicles which have a different standard and from what I've read the ecoboost F-150 is selling surprisingly well. So against all that, you have maybe 40,000 Mustangs that have little effect on overall CAFE.

exchallenger

Trucks are indeed a different standard, I was only referring to cars of course. As to the 75,000 annual mustang output ytd, I don't dispute that number but I do know Ford has made over 150,000 units in previous years. Current economic conditions I blame for the low numbers of high performance, somewhat upscale cars. These crappy numbers wouldn't have continued forever were it not for impending fuel economy mandates.
As for the GT500, I remember one year they made like 2000 units and another they made I want to say 5000 or so, not much. If you're seeing a cluster of them where you live you're lucky. I'm trying to convince a buddy of mine to buy a 2013 so I can see one too.

Resolution78

i had the option of a gt500 for less than my boss, was told they would get me out the door for 45-46k....... i passed on it for the boss

Fenderaddict2

Same offer. Same result.