Discussion: Is this a true linage or marketing
9/24/10, 12:53 PM
#1
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Discussion: Is this a true linage or marketing
This is meant to generate discussion and ideas. I saw on another board that this car is not a true decendant of the Boss 302 of 69 -70. They cited that the original was unique and could not be copied in a garage with bolt on parts. The suspension was also unique to other mustangs at the time. This post was from a owner of an 69/70 Mustang so I know we all look at new versions with some reservation.
Discussion point, is the new Boss 302 just a quickie mod job from Ford or a true mod done with racing in mind. Just as it was done back in 1969 for Factory Backed racing. Will it have a buck tag or a VIN identifier, will the block be identified??
Some has compaired this model with the Mach 1 in the early 00's, a new tune, hot rod UDP, new heads (DOHC) model.
This 12 model will mimic the 69 version and the 13 will the 70 model (hmm wonder if the shaker will re appear??)
Discussion point, is the new Boss 302 just a quickie mod job from Ford or a true mod done with racing in mind. Just as it was done back in 1969 for Factory Backed racing. Will it have a buck tag or a VIN identifier, will the block be identified??
Some has compaired this model with the Mach 1 in the early 00's, a new tune, hot rod UDP, new heads (DOHC) model.
This 12 model will mimic the 69 version and the 13 will the 70 model (hmm wonder if the shaker will re appear??)
9/24/10, 12:57 PM
#2
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everything is marketing even the 69-70.
That being said I do not think it will be easy to recreate that ugly of a paint job
great car just needs some vinyl/paint remover.
That being said I do not think it will be easy to recreate that ugly of a paint job
great car just needs some vinyl/paint remover.
9/24/10, 01:30 PM
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9/24/10, 02:11 PM
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Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but:
Even a 69-70 could be built in a garage out of another "lesser" trim. You would just form quite the relationship with the local Ford parts guy. The same could be said for the 2012, if you had the money and wanted to I'm sure that everything could be ordered over the counter from a Ford parts dept. But that would not make "cents", and good luck getting the correct tune out of a Ford service dept into your GT ECM.
The only way either of these cars could truely be unique and not be copied is if Ford required a VIN & old part as a core before you were able to order any new parts.
Even a 69-70 could be built in a garage out of another "lesser" trim. You would just form quite the relationship with the local Ford parts guy. The same could be said for the 2012, if you had the money and wanted to I'm sure that everything could be ordered over the counter from a Ford parts dept. But that would not make "cents", and good luck getting the correct tune out of a Ford service dept into your GT ECM.
The only way either of these cars could truely be unique and not be copied is if Ford required a VIN & old part as a core before you were able to order any new parts.
9/24/10, 02:44 PM
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I think Ford did a great job with what has been released so far on this new Boss. It does pay homage to the original and I am sure the original is happy with its 2nd generation Boss 302 some 40 years later.
9/24/10, 02:54 PM
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What parts on the '69 Boss 302 were so unique that a person back in 1969-70 could not order from a Ford Parts Department? Seems strange that Ford would sell a new production car that you could not buy replacement parts for.
9/24/10, 03:26 PM
#10
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All Boss302 parts were availible from Ford in 69 /70.What was so special about boss 302 parts besides the motor. if I could still find it I had a small book that had the special parts listed . I know the front fenders were rolled to fit the f/60/15 tire and magnum 500 wheels . They had stagered shocks in the rear, also sway bars . some had a monte carlo bar between the shock towers Most of that stuff was also avalible on Mach1 and boss 9.
9/24/10, 03:29 PM
#11
This is the most drastically changed SE Mustang Ford has built in some time. I personally hope that not all the parts are available, so that people don't try and build clones of them.
With the totally revised suspension, Torsen diff, and beefed up motor, this is going to be one hell of a car.
With the totally revised suspension, Torsen diff, and beefed up motor, this is going to be one hell of a car.
9/24/10, 03:42 PM
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From an earlier thread. Happy shopping....
Because there are so many changes/upgrades to this car I thought I'd put together a summary for your viewing pleasure. I think I have captured everything from the releases but I'll update if there is anything else.
2012 Boss Mustang Upgrades
Powertrain
Boss 302R Intake
Forged Pistons
Forged Con-Rods
Race-Spec Main and Rod Bearings
Sodium Filled Exhaust Valves
Hi-Lift Cams
7500 RPM Limit
CNC’d Heads
Oil Cooler
Larger Radiator
Revised Radiator Plumbing
Revised Oil Pan Baffling
Race Inspired Clutch
3.73 Axle Ratio
Finned Aluminum Diff Cover
Limited Slip Diff with carbon fiber plates (Torsen Limited Slip Available)
Quad Exhaust
Suspension
Higher Rate Springs (lowered 11MM front – 1MM rear)
Adjustable Struts/Shocks
Tuned Electronic Steering with 3 Settings
Unique traction control system settings
Unique electronic stability control settings
Body
Black or White Roof Panel and Coordinated C-Stripe
Unique Front Facia with Blocked off Fog Lamps and Splitter
Small Rear Spoiler
Interior
Alcantara Steering Wheel
Unique Shift ****
Unique Cloth Seats (Recaros available)
Dark Metallic Instrument Panel Finish
Unique Guages
Unique Door Sill
11 Pounds of Sound Deadening Removed
Brakes, Wheels and Tires
Brembo 14 inch vented discs front
Boss specific rear compounds pads rear
Vented Brake Shields
Unique ABS tuning
Reinforced Brake Lines
Lightweight 19X9 and 19X9.5 Wheels
Pirelli P-Zero Tires 255/40/ZR19 Front 285/35/ZR19 Rear
Laguna Seca Package
Available in Black or Silver with Red Accents
Rear Seat Delete
Standard Recaro Seats
Rear Body Stiffening X-Brace
Softer Front and Firmer Rear Springs
Stiffer Damper Settings
Larger Rear Anti-Roll Bar
Unique 19x9 Front and 19x10 Rear wheels
Pirelli Corsa Tires 255/40/ZR19 Front and 285/35/ZR19 Rear
Larger Front Splitter
Pedestal Rear Spoiler
Brake Ducts
Torsen Diff Standard
Auxiliary Gauge Package with Oil/Water Temp and Lap Timer
Unique Laguna Seca Fake Gas tank thing (lol, forgot what they call it)
Nicely done Ford!
2012 Boss Mustang Upgrades
Powertrain
Boss 302R Intake
Forged Pistons
Forged Con-Rods
Race-Spec Main and Rod Bearings
Sodium Filled Exhaust Valves
Hi-Lift Cams
7500 RPM Limit
CNC’d Heads
Oil Cooler
Larger Radiator
Revised Radiator Plumbing
Revised Oil Pan Baffling
Race Inspired Clutch
3.73 Axle Ratio
Finned Aluminum Diff Cover
Limited Slip Diff with carbon fiber plates (Torsen Limited Slip Available)
Quad Exhaust
Suspension
Higher Rate Springs (lowered 11MM front – 1MM rear)
Adjustable Struts/Shocks
Tuned Electronic Steering with 3 Settings
Unique traction control system settings
Unique electronic stability control settings
Body
Black or White Roof Panel and Coordinated C-Stripe
Unique Front Facia with Blocked off Fog Lamps and Splitter
Small Rear Spoiler
Interior
Alcantara Steering Wheel
Unique Shift ****
Unique Cloth Seats (Recaros available)
Dark Metallic Instrument Panel Finish
Unique Guages
Unique Door Sill
11 Pounds of Sound Deadening Removed
Brakes, Wheels and Tires
Brembo 14 inch vented discs front
Boss specific rear compounds pads rear
Vented Brake Shields
Unique ABS tuning
Reinforced Brake Lines
Lightweight 19X9 and 19X9.5 Wheels
Pirelli P-Zero Tires 255/40/ZR19 Front 285/35/ZR19 Rear
Laguna Seca Package
Available in Black or Silver with Red Accents
Rear Seat Delete
Standard Recaro Seats
Rear Body Stiffening X-Brace
Softer Front and Firmer Rear Springs
Stiffer Damper Settings
Larger Rear Anti-Roll Bar
Unique 19x9 Front and 19x10 Rear wheels
Pirelli Corsa Tires 255/40/ZR19 Front and 285/35/ZR19 Rear
Larger Front Splitter
Pedestal Rear Spoiler
Brake Ducts
Torsen Diff Standard
Auxiliary Gauge Package with Oil/Water Temp and Lap Timer
Unique Laguna Seca Fake Gas tank thing (lol, forgot what they call it)
Nicely done Ford!
Last edited by PTRocks; 9/24/10 at 11:43 PM.
9/24/10, 03:44 PM
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I understand the 69-70 owners desire to be unique, however the truth is the new Boss would beat the old Boss in EVERY possible performance category. And by such a wide margin that the results would be embarrassing.
9/24/10, 04:24 PM
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9/24/10, 10:12 PM
#15
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"The Boss 302 isn’t something a Mustang GT owner can buy all the parts for out of a catalog or that a tuner can get by adding a chip. This is a front-to-back re-engineered Mustang with every system designed to make a good driver great and a great driver even better."
"The real key to handling, though, is in the adjustable shocks and struts, standard on all Boss Mustang models.
“We’ve given drivers five settings for their shocks,” says Brent Clark, supervisor of the Mustang vehicle dynamics team. “One is the softest, two is the factory setting and five is the firmest, and we’ve provided a wide range of adjustment. A customer can drive to the track on setting two, crank it up to five for improved response on the track, then dial down to one for a more relaxed ride home. What’s unique is that drivers will find – thanks to the way the suspension works as a complete system – the softest setting isn’t too loose and the firmest setting isn’t too controlled; each step just provides additional levels of control.”
Also unique is the method of shock adjustment. Ditching the weight and complexity of electronic wizardry, the Mustang team opted for traditional race-style hands-on adjustability – similar to the Gabriel shocks available on the original Boss 302.
“The shock adjustment is right at the top of the shock tower, built into the rod and easily accessible from under the hood or inside the trunk,” says Clark. “You just take a small flat-head screwdriver, turn the adjustment screw between one and five, and head back out onto the track.”
Given the configuration of the Boss engine intake, I would doubt the appearance of a shaker scoop induction system.
9/25/10, 07:53 AM
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as it was said earlier, that post was from a purest, an original owner of a 69. I remember when the mag mustang monthly was the only resto source. I remember the articles of how the 65 GT with a 271hp was raced with the new 82 GT, and the older one still one. Then as the 80's progressed, they had to step up the competition as the 65 GT lost, so they raced later on the Boss 302 for a while against them.
I have owned a 66, 68, 78, 95, and now a 06 and maybe soon a 12.
I have owned a 66, 68, 78, 95, and now a 06 and maybe soon a 12.
9/25/10, 10:53 PM
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IMO, pure marketing. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday. Or something like that. No coincidence the FR500C's name changed over to Boss 302R in advance of the 2012 SE. IIRC, unlike the original Boss 302, these 2012+ versions are limited-edition cars that pay homage to the originals. Retro appeal right there. Back then, Ford needed to sell street versions of the Boss 302 in order to go racing in Trans-Am. Now that's not so much the case with the Grand Am/GT road racing cars.
That being said, these are not mere quickie paint/tape-stripe specials. The unique "hard parts" can be had - it'll only be a matter of time and $$$. Or else a reasonable or perhaps better "substitute" parts could be obtained from the aftermarket in the future. It would be the electronics portion that would be more difficult to replicate.
That being said, these are not mere quickie paint/tape-stripe specials. The unique "hard parts" can be had - it'll only be a matter of time and $$$. Or else a reasonable or perhaps better "substitute" parts could be obtained from the aftermarket in the future. It would be the electronics portion that would be more difficult to replicate.
9/26/10, 06:04 AM
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9/26/10, 07:16 AM
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There is a difference between getting a part for warranty work and having parts sold through Ford Racing, etc.
So it won't be that easy to build your own Boss.
I'm sure it might be possible to get a Boss engine but you'll pay 20k+ for it. I think the GT500 engines are over 25k.
If someone wants to pay out that kind of coin then let'em.
I think most people will just do a Boss striping package and to the average person on the street it will BE a Boss.
Last edited by Whammer; 9/26/10 at 07:17 AM.