Mikey

Originally Posted by nota4re
OK, we got back over to the dyno yesterday and had a chance to put my LS on the rollers. At the beginning of this thread, we published results of my car (stock at the time) compared to another LS where we had just installed Kooks Headers, H-pipe (no cats), and mufflers. Very impressive differences. However now we have a test that may be more accurate. The results remain very impressive - although a little less pronounced than when we used two different cars.

Having established a baseline with my car when it was stock, we now re-tested my car with the Kooks Headers (1.75" primaries), H-Pipe WITH Cats, and Kook's mufflers.

The results are that we got an almost consistent 15-20 HP across the entire RPM range and peak advantages around 3500RPM of 25HP. Similarly, TQ was improved across the RPM band, with a fat spot of +40 in the same ~3500 RPM mark.


*** I interpret this as peak 25HP & peak 40TQ @ 3500 RPM, WITH the hi-flow cats. I want to make sure I understand this, because I'm strongly considering the Kooks 1.75" headers and hi-flow catted h-pipe.

RTD

No. It means that the biggest gain was around 3500 RPM, which obviously is neither the hp or torque peak RPM for a Roadrunner.

The actual peak numbers I posted were taken straight from his dyno graph - 13 hp and 18 ft-lbs over stock with the high flow cats.

It seems like the real exh restriction in these cars is the cats.

Dig-It Racing

Take a look at the lower and mid-range of the curves of both graphs. While running without cats will allow for more power, there's some real nice gains in the lower end of the hp and torque bands. Look again.

DA712

Drew,
Can you give a update as to when you expect to have these available?

Thanks, Dave

nota4re

Please let me clarify the tests that we ran so that there is no confusion.

The first time we dyno'd we had 2 pretty identical LS's. Mine was stock with the exception of track key. The objective was to get a baseline on my car because we were going to do he full Kook's install and then we could compare baseline to the modified car. However, we also had this second LS there where we had already installed the complete Kook's system with NO CATs. So, the dyno results were comparing my (stock) car to his Kook's (no cats) car. There was a pretty big difference as can be seen from the dyno. Same day, same dyno, same temp and humidity... but different cars.

The second set of dyno charts is where we took my car back to the same dyno after installing the Kook's system although this time we had the CATs on my car.

ace72ace

I got approval from the real Boss to budget money for some mods when I pick up my new Boss this fall. So before I commit big money for a full Kooks exhaust, I really really REALLY need to see a video (with sound of course) of the catted system before purchasing.

Kendall, I sent you a PM a few weeks ago, if you could get back to me I would appreciate it. I was wondering what the added cost for ceramic coating of the LTH goes for? I thought I had seen somewhere it was $199, but need to be sure.

Lastly, I hope that full catted exhaust will not throw a CEL on the 2013 Boss. While just an annoyance, I'd rather not have to deal with it.

Thanks.

Rich

nota4re

Rich, I will capture some videos of the exhaust and post them here for all. I will get this done by the weekend.

Regarding the CAT situation, we are still working with Kooks and their CAT supplier to find a solution. While the Kooks solution works well for a GT engine, the ECU calibration for checking Catalytic efficiency is "tighter" of the Boss. Kooks and the CAT supplier had sent us another set of CATs to try and, unfortunately, these did not work. However, they now have a Boss locally and they have a solution that IS working. We should have this newest, hopefully "final", version by next week and we will report back on the results.

It should be noted tha the challenge is NOT necessarily to make the car run clean - as we all believe that the CATs that we have on the car would pass the sniffer test. The issue is in making the car's ECU believe that the CATs are still within spec and to NOT illuminate the MIL light. I think we are very close to a solution.... Stay tuned.

ace72ace

Thanks for the quick reply! I'm sure we are all looking forward to the videos.

About how much for the ceramic coating on the headers?

Mikey

Thanks Kendall! Can't wait to hear this exhaust, as I'm looking to purchase the full Kooks system for my 2013 GT. I know it won't sound identical, but close enough -- at this point I haven't found a video of the Kooks full system with the catted h-pipe anywhere!

ace72ace

Well if it sounds anywhere near as good as the 4.6L 3v GT vid that I posted on page 6, this should be freakin' awesome.

FAST FRED

Subscribing

ufnavy06

Did we ever figure out if trackey is compatible with the exhaust? I don't remember seeing that.

ace72ace

Yeah it seems that all the various things mentioned over the course of the thread have gotten a bit scattered. If I'm not mistaken the list of open issues in no particular order are;

1) When will a full 'catted' system be available that won't/should throw a CEL

2) If ordering a full Kooks exhaust, how much extra for ceramic coating?

3) Will this system be compatible with Trackey?

Anyone else feel free to add a 4, 5...

nota4re

Kooks works closely with one of the largest catalytic converter manufacturers for the OEM's. Kooks reasonably assumed that the cats they had previously tested successfully for theMustang GT would also be OK with the Boss. Unfortunately, the unique programming in the Boss was enough of a difference that these cats didn't work. A couple of weeks ago, I received another set of cats to try. Ultimately, these cats didn't work out either. In the interim time, the cat company outfitted a local Boss with a newly designed set of cats and there has been NO issues. These new cats are on their way to us now - but I'm pretty confident that we'll have a solution that we've had the opportunity to validate soon. (As I understand, these new cats are longer than the cats we tried before and they provide more surface area to improve the effectivness.)

I'll find that out as Kook's does provide that as an option. They ship to Jet Coat and then Jet Coat ships to you. I apologize that I don't know the price for this. We have our local preferred ceramic coating shop and we use the local one and not the Kook's service.

Not sure the root of this question??? Of course the system works VERY well with Trackey.

ace72ace

Excellent news! I only cared about 1 & 2, someone else had brought up the Trackey subject... Now I can sit back and wait for my videos.

Will you be putting the Boss with the new cats on the dyno?

RTD

Will the new cats make more hp than the old cats?

The gain of 13 hp and 18 ft-lbs over stock from the catted system was a little disappointing compared to the very stout gain of 35 hp and 41 ft-lbs over stock from the catless system.

ace72ace

I'm not too hung up on the lower values due to dyno variables for weather conditions (temp, humidity, barometric pressure, etc.), as long as the graph line has a similar shape across the RPM range. Yeah it's a little disappointing to see a just over 50% drop with the cats (18hp vs 35), so I was hoping for another dyno graph with the 'longer cats' that don't throw a CEL. With any luck a new graph may show perhaps a higher HP number, like 22, 23hp and comparable increases in TQ.

I understand it's a long and painstaking process for the dyno runs that Kendall provides for us as described before, using a 3 man team. However capturing all the data, and then providing the graphs with a detailed description of the procedures and results are well worth it, at least to me.

Because of the info already provided in this thread I'm 90% sure I will order the complete exhaust system once the newer cats have been tested. The clincher for me will be the video. =D

A 90 second clip of startup, followed by the idle where you can hear the higher RPM idle and then the slower idle as the engine heats up, and then finishing with a few jabs to the accelerator to make the exhaust bark and then hear the 'burble and bark' as the engine falls back to idle is what I'm looking for. Also a video w/audio from the side of the car with the side pipes fully open would be greatly appreciated (from a distance of at least 20+ feet away). All too often you get videos on youtube with some goober sticking his smartphone inches from the exhaust so you can see the gasses coming out of the pipe(s). I'm much more interested in the tenor and tone of the exhaust from several feet away so the sound is reflecting off the pavement.

The reason for this is simple. If you have an iphone for instance, and want to play music/streaming audio using the built in speaker from the bottom of the phone, you can hear a lot more sound if you put the phone on a table/flat surface because the sound reflects off of the flat surface and amplifies the sound waves. Gets even louder if you put your iphone in a corner, like I do when streaming sports radio stream when shaving at my bathroom sink. So to get a video from the side if possible would give a good example of what to expect someone on a sidewalk might hear when you rumble on by with your new CoolTech / Kooks exhaust!

Thanks in advance for whatever you can provide!

RJorge1950

Hi ace72ace!

You got my vote to go out to Cool Tech and record the video as I am sure Kendall could use the help while he is busy on the DYNO.

Kendall hope these new CAT'S do the trick. These longer CAT'S will they fit the KOOK'S system you have? Longer CAT'S could translate in increased restriction to the gas path so the DYNO test should tell us.

Rob

ace72ace

Gee thanks! As long as they pay my air fare, pick me up at the airport in their LS, feed me dinner and provide cold beer, I'll bring my HD cameras and we are good to go!

12C/OBoss

Just a heads up...

A Ford Engineer lurks on here and last year we pm'd back and forth about tuning my Boss and then the KB Blower install. He said the single best mod for power is removing the cats. Then headers only after tuning and other mods as the factory headers left VERY little on the table.


So with that said MOST aftermarket cat back exhaust systems do very little other than sound awesome, and an aftermarket offroad x pipe (which the engineer hates on the Coyote/Roadrunner motors due to the sound) makes the MOST power/tq, followed by headers with a tune and then CAI with a tune


So if i still owned my Boss I would have installed the Kooks headers with their side exhaust (no cats and side pipes with a blower....SICK LOUD) and kept the Borla S type rear section. I applaud Kooks and Kendall for all their hard work trying to improve an already extremely powerful and efficient motor!