A Smaller Mustang with Independent Rear Suspension
12/23/10, 08:15 PM
#41
Bullitt Member
Join Date: November 4, 2010
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I certainly hope so. The Mustang is over 3600 pounds now, so if they can work some magic and reduce the weight a bit, it would be pretty nice. I am not as optimistic that it will be all you say then it could be worth saving up for that, too. The mustang is 3600+ pounds and 412 hp. The Porsche gt2 is something like 3000 and 600 hp. I wonder how close Ford can get.
Edit: But after looking around more, I do think there is something to worry about. GTs going back into the 300hp range from 2014 to 2016 is realistic. Losing possibly 10% to 15% weight and keeping enough amenities to keep people happy might require some sacrifices. I don't think the 2014 will be anything but good, but as new and good as the Coyote engine is, it is not anywhere near the Cafe standards now. It is good for what it is, but it is a performance v8. The v8s might get thinned out and replaced with v6 engines in many of the mid levels including the GT. I am not sure when, but the Cafe standards are tight. If ford can come up with some great 90-100 mpg electric cars and light trucks then that might save some room for V8s. I do not want to seem a naysayer, but I like to be a cautious person. I like the GT as it is, even if it is a bit too heavy. I ordered a 2012 GT, and do not plan on selling it anytime soon. If the 2014 models do end up blowing the doors off of the 2012 I will get one, but I do not think that it is a 100% certainty at this point.
Edit: But after looking around more, I do think there is something to worry about. GTs going back into the 300hp range from 2014 to 2016 is realistic. Losing possibly 10% to 15% weight and keeping enough amenities to keep people happy might require some sacrifices. I don't think the 2014 will be anything but good, but as new and good as the Coyote engine is, it is not anywhere near the Cafe standards now. It is good for what it is, but it is a performance v8. The v8s might get thinned out and replaced with v6 engines in many of the mid levels including the GT. I am not sure when, but the Cafe standards are tight. If ford can come up with some great 90-100 mpg electric cars and light trucks then that might save some room for V8s. I do not want to seem a naysayer, but I like to be a cautious person. I like the GT as it is, even if it is a bit too heavy. I ordered a 2012 GT, and do not plan on selling it anytime soon. If the 2014 models do end up blowing the doors off of the 2012 I will get one, but I do not think that it is a 100% certainty at this point.
Last edited by Itravelalot; 12/24/10 at 01:13 AM.
12/30/10, 10:12 AM
#42
Cobra Member
I'm sure the V8 won't go away completely, but might Ford keep it just for special editions like the Boss/Mach 1/Bullitt/etc and use an Ecoboost V6 for the GT? I suppose they'll have to weigh the extra cost of the Ecoboost engine against the cost of the CAFE fines to see which would end up being more expensive.
It will be interesting when the EPA has given it's rating for the 2011 Ford F-150 with the 3.5L Ecoboost so it can be compared to the F-150 with the 5.0 V8. I'm guessing 2-3 mpg difference. It should give us some insight into what a Mustang GT with an EB6 would deliver. Both engines make about the same amount of hp as tuned for the F-150 but the 3.5EB makes 40 more lb/feet of torque.
It will be interesting when the EPA has given it's rating for the 2011 Ford F-150 with the 3.5L Ecoboost so it can be compared to the F-150 with the 5.0 V8. I'm guessing 2-3 mpg difference. It should give us some insight into what a Mustang GT with an EB6 would deliver. Both engines make about the same amount of hp as tuned for the F-150 but the 3.5EB makes 40 more lb/feet of torque.
12/31/10, 08:26 AM
#43
Bullitt Member
Join Date: March 25, 2004
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm sure the V8 won't go away completely, but might Ford keep it just for special editions like the Boss/Mach 1/Bullitt/etc and use an Ecoboost V6 for the GT? I suppose they'll have to weigh the extra cost of the Ecoboost engine against the cost of the CAFE fines to see which would end up being more expensive.
It will be interesting when the EPA has given it's rating for the 2011 Ford F-150 with the 3.5L Ecoboost so it can be compared to the F-150 with the 5.0 V8. I'm guessing 2-3 mpg difference. It should give us some insight into what a Mustang GT with an EB6 would deliver. Both engines make about the same amount of hp as tuned for the F-150 but the 3.5EB makes 40 more lb/feet of torque.
It will be interesting when the EPA has given it's rating for the 2011 Ford F-150 with the 3.5L Ecoboost so it can be compared to the F-150 with the 5.0 V8. I'm guessing 2-3 mpg difference. It should give us some insight into what a Mustang GT with an EB6 would deliver. Both engines make about the same amount of hp as tuned for the F-150 but the 3.5EB makes 40 more lb/feet of torque.
I also think a V6 GT would not be a performance trade-off. The new 5.0 delivers considerable horsepower, but it is not nearly as impressive when it comes to putting out torque. A boosted D35 could produce the same horsepower with more torque across a wider rpm band. Think back to the Lincoln MKR concept--twin force D35 with 415-HP and 400-lbs of torque, on a stretched Mustang chassis--slap that in a Mustang with the new six-speed and I believe the performance would be on par, if not better than the 5.0.
PS - For those who don't consider a 6-banger a performance engine, check out the performance of Godzilla. It looks like it was beaten with an ugly stick, but it is fast.
12/31/10, 08:42 AM
#44
Legacy TMS Member
If there is a market for a V8 in the GT, Ford will put one in there. CAFE wont drive a V8 from the Mustang - the expectations of the buyer will.
If Ford puts an EB4 or EB6 in the Mustang GT and it outsells the V8 then the V8 disappears from the GT simply due to buyer demand.
Ford isn't going to turn thier back on the V8 GT anytime soon just because the Feds have mandated higher MPG numbers
If Ford puts an EB4 or EB6 in the Mustang GT and it outsells the V8 then the V8 disappears from the GT simply due to buyer demand.
Ford isn't going to turn thier back on the V8 GT anytime soon just because the Feds have mandated higher MPG numbers
12/31/10, 09:33 AM
#45
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
If there is a market for a V8 in the GT, Ford will put one in there. CAFE wont drive a V8 from the Mustang - the expectations of the buyer will.
If Ford puts an EB4 or EB6 in the Mustang GT and it outsells the V8 then the V8 disappears from the GT simply due to buyer demand.
Ford isn't going to turn thier back on the V8 GT anytime soon just because the Feds have mandated higher MPG numbers
If Ford puts an EB4 or EB6 in the Mustang GT and it outsells the V8 then the V8 disappears from the GT simply due to buyer demand.
Ford isn't going to turn thier back on the V8 GT anytime soon just because the Feds have mandated higher MPG numbers
They killed all the HP in cars because of emissions.
Remember, there was no V8 Mustang in 1974.
https://themustangsource.com/timelin...8/74/index.htm
I'm sure the V8 won't go away completely, but might Ford keep it just for special editions like the Boss/Mach 1/Bullitt/etc and use an Ecoboost V6 for the GT? I suppose they'll have to weigh the extra cost of the Ecoboost engine against the cost of the CAFE fines to see which would end up being more expensive.
The V8 will be a GT SE option only.
CAFE is an average. If the V8 is only a small portion of production there is not a problem.
12/31/10, 10:06 AM
#46
GTR Member
If you believe this, you couldn't have been driving in the '70s like me.
They killed all the HP in cars because of emissions.
Remember, there was no V8 Mustang in 1974.
https://themustangsource.com/timelin...8/74/index.htm
This is what I see happening.
The V8 will be a GT SE option only.
CAFE is an average. If the V8 is only a small portion of production there is not a problem.
They killed all the HP in cars because of emissions.
Remember, there was no V8 Mustang in 1974.
https://themustangsource.com/timelin...8/74/index.htm
This is what I see happening.
The V8 will be a GT SE option only.
CAFE is an average. If the V8 is only a small portion of production there is not a problem.
Point 1
True, but then technology has moved on in those 40 years and we can now have our cake and eat it with a 412bhp V8 that'll be cleaner than any smog-choked 70's engine could ever dream of.
Point 2
Perhaps, in the future, but hopefully not for the next generation Mustang. Time will tell though
12/31/10, 03:24 PM
#47
Bullitt Member
Join Date: November 4, 2010
Location: Buckeye, AZ
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If Ford follows CAFE standards, I do not see how V8s could possibly be available in large numbers, even with the newer engines. If Ford uses CAFE more like an extra tax, and just charges a premium on each car that does not pass CAFE to pay the fine they will get, then even bigger engines are a possibility.
1/1/11, 09:23 AM
#48
Legacy TMS Member
If you believe this, you couldn't have been driving in the '70s like me.
They killed all the HP in cars because of emissions.
Remember, there was no V8 Mustang in 1974.
https://themustangsource.com/timeline/74-78/74/index.htm
They killed all the HP in cars because of emissions.
Remember, there was no V8 Mustang in 1974.
https://themustangsource.com/timeline/74-78/74/index.htm
As long as the CAFE average is where it needs to be and the manufacturer can offset carbon regs with credits and there is suffcient profit there, then the V8 will remain in the GT.
Besides, your talking a niche car really, Mustangs and thier V8 cars dont really sell in enough volume to have a serious effect on Ford's economy and pollution requirements. Maybe just maybe you would see the V8 in a Mustang go if Ford dropped the V8 from the F-trucks. Ford goes EB4 and EB6 with no V8 options for the F-trucks then it might be time to worry.
1/1/11, 10:20 AM
#49
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
It could happen.
But it ain't gonna be easy.
Do the math and see how well that works even with a niche car:
"Automakers will be required to meet a fleet-wide average of 35.5 by 2016."
And that is just for now...
1/1/11, 12:22 PM
#50
GTR Member
Well, lets hope plenty of you good folks buy the new Fiesta and Focus, as those cars will help bring down Ford's average consumption.
More Fiestas mean more V8 Mustangs
More Fiestas mean more V8 Mustangs
1/1/11, 12:48 PM
#51
Cobra Member
Join Date: June 25, 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,076
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm a V8 guy, but I am excited about an Ecoboost V6 and maybe even a Ecoboost 4.
Wouldn't mind keeping my 08 GT, and then buying a SVO Type Stang or a Convertible. Something that is stylish, fast and gets good gas mileage.
Wouldn't mind keeping my 08 GT, and then buying a SVO Type Stang or a Convertible. Something that is stylish, fast and gets good gas mileage.
1/1/11, 01:07 PM
#52
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
My thoughts are that my 2007 V6 may turn into something like that.
The 2006 GT has always been a keeper.
1/1/11, 05:43 PM
#53
Bullitt Member
Join Date: September 8, 2009
Location: Santa Barbara, California
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Ford can't afford to make a car for only one market???. There is a micro ford for sale only in India, There are some models only for sale in Australia. And there are some models only the Euros can get a hold of. Is there no explanation as to why those cars and trucks can't be brought to America or why Ford can't sell Mustang as is in other markets? I see their lips moving but what I hear is were going to sell you the lowest common denominator because that is what people in India want.
I think I want to put a whipple in my car and stick an eco boost badge under the GT. :-)
I think I want to put a whipple in my car and stick an eco boost badge under the GT. :-)
1/1/11, 06:01 PM
#54
Bullitt Member
Join Date: January 30, 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Indian Micro Ford is just a last gen Fiesta (unless you're thinking of a different car than I am) being built because it's old and cheap. Euro only models? The next-gen Mondeo and Fusion will be the same car, the next-gen Kuga and Escape will be the same truck. The Australian Falcon was very nearly killed, and will be built off the next Mustang, if at all.
1/1/11, 07:26 PM
#55
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Ford can't afford to make a car for only one market???. There is a micro ford for sale only in India, There are some models only for sale in Australia. And there are some models only the Euros can get a hold of. Is there no explanation as to why those cars and trucks can't be brought to America or why Ford can't sell Mustang as is in other markets? I see their lips moving but what I hear is were going to sell you the lowest common denominator because that is what people in India want.
No way in heck the Indian micro could pass USA safety.
The vans are already here (Transit).
Trucks are coming (Ranger).
1/1/11, 09:33 PM
#56
Mach 1 Member
Join Date: December 25, 2010
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Wolfsburg
How about a high-performance Mustang very similar to what we have today with IRS and Rear Wheel Drive with an optional Turbocharged V-6 Engine (Possibly the Ecoboost?)?
They should do something however to compete with the higher quality interior and refinement of many european cars. Suede wrapped wheel, alcantara leather, more upscale nav options, etc..
1/1/11, 09:35 PM
#57
Mach 1 Member
Join Date: December 25, 2010
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ministang
I've got no problems if Ford wants to make a 4-door sedan out of the new Mustang platform. Just don't call it a Mustang.
I'd love to see a smaller, lighter Mustang with an IRS in 2014, say 3200 lbs, about 12" shorter than the current one, but it definitely needs a V8 option.
I'd love to see a smaller, lighter Mustang with an IRS in 2014, say 3200 lbs, about 12" shorter than the current one, but it definitely needs a V8 option.
1/2/11, 05:02 PM
#58
I Have No Life
There are a LARGE number of people (I being one of them) that feel the GT=V8
Don't worry, Ford is well aware of this too...
Mustang doesn't sell in large numbers compared to that of the rest of Fords lineup, and while everybit helps, the ammount of V8s in their cars is a pretty small ammount.
Now what would you do in the case of looking ahead to the future to satisfy both of these 'issues'? (its a multipart answer, but don't worry...the answer is not going to be V6s shoved down your throat unless you get a GT500)
Don't worry, Ford is well aware of this too...
Mustang doesn't sell in large numbers compared to that of the rest of Fords lineup, and while everybit helps, the ammount of V8s in their cars is a pretty small ammount.
Now what would you do in the case of looking ahead to the future to satisfy both of these 'issues'? (its a multipart answer, but don't worry...the answer is not going to be V6s shoved down your throat unless you get a GT500)
1/3/11, 10:03 AM
#59
Shelby GT350 Member
2014 will have the Coyote 5.0, with direct Injection so the CARB people will stay happy. It will be lighter and have an IRS. It will be smaller overall (L/W/H). The cabin will stay 2+2 with the same interior room where it matters (seating/hip/leg/head) but will be shortened on the dash and rear shelf area. If you like MyTouch you'll have it...if you like Sony you'll get it. If you like amenities like folding mirrors and 10 way power cloth/alcantara/leather seats it will be optioned along with Recaro seats going forward. The look will still scream Mustang and the heritage will not be lost. We will still have the tri-taillights, the sculpted hood and pronounced C scoop. As it looks now it will be everything the car is now and everything we wish it was. The pricing will stay equal to where is stands now (adding Inflation).
The 2012-13 Mustang is a sweet piece of work. The Boss' for 12-13 are amazing and the $29K GT is all one really needs now. The 5.0 will be around for the foreseeable future. The rest of the line will include EcoBoosted engines. A 5.0 TwinForce (Old Name may make a come back) EcoBoost is in the cards. The mileage for base models will reach 35 mpg. The GT will get 30 mpg (est.)
The Crapmaro will also arrive around 2014 as a 2015 model, it too, smaller and lighter, making it about the size of todays Stang. If you want Euro-trashing Luxury and all the bells and whistles there will be a Lincoln Version (think MkC), based off of the same platform.
The 2012-13 Mustang is a sweet piece of work. The Boss' for 12-13 are amazing and the $29K GT is all one really needs now. The 5.0 will be around for the foreseeable future. The rest of the line will include EcoBoosted engines. A 5.0 TwinForce (Old Name may make a come back) EcoBoost is in the cards. The mileage for base models will reach 35 mpg. The GT will get 30 mpg (est.)
The Crapmaro will also arrive around 2014 as a 2015 model, it too, smaller and lighter, making it about the size of todays Stang. If you want Euro-trashing Luxury and all the bells and whistles there will be a Lincoln Version (think MkC), based off of the same platform.
1/3/11, 11:50 AM
#60
GTR Member
Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!! How did I miss that gem of a post from TN?? 
Given that your info is usually, er......top notch.....this is really exciting stuff. Now for some realistic Photoshopping
Given that your info is usually, er......top notch.....this is really exciting stuff. Now for some realistic Photoshopping