TRRBGT

From all the other rumors I've heard, it sounds like that might happen.. you know, like as in the Falcon. And although I like the idea of reworking/rebadging it a Lincoln and selling it here, that didn't work too well for GM when they tried it.



Oh wait, or did it?

Twin Turbo

The Caddy does not share the same Zeta platform as the Pontiac/Holden/Camaro though. I'm pretty sure it uses the smaller Alpha platform. GM are planning on using a revised Alpha platform for the next generation Camaro.

TRRBGT

It's built on the Sigma II platform actually. Sigma was originally intended to be a GWRD and started development at Holden but ended up only underpinning Cadillacs. And although the CTS/CTS-V aren’t rebadged versions of anything else like the G8 was, the cars built on Zeta and Sigma very similar in a lot of ways. I guess my point was that if you're going to do that, you've got to do it right. Make it different, make is special and don’t make the same mistakes GM made. Which who know, might have just been a marketing thing.

Twin Turbo

D'oh, that's right, it's the Sigma platform!

You're right though, platform sharing is all very well, but it needs to be distinct. Ford got it bang on in '64 with the Mustang. Sure, it shared a lot of the Falcon's platform, but looked nothing like it.

GM got it very wrong with the GTO. The Holden Monaro was/is a great car, but slapping a new grille and badges on it does not make it a good GTO.

But Ford still need to be careful. If they do use the next-gen Falcon platform, it'd better be flexible. Whilst the Camaro was spun off the Zeta platform (Holden Commodore) it's proven to be pretty heavy. I guess that's why GM are looking to use the smaller RWD platform for the next-gen Camaro.

mach1fever

There was not enough brand awareness on the g8. They had already pulled the plug on the brand before the 09 model year. Its a great car and I drive one as a daily driver. Btw I knocked down 13.7's consistently in 90 degree heat on stock tires in my G8 GT. The value has rebounded after Pontiac was killed similar to the GTO. People are appreciating them with your 25-30 somethings buying them. They gave a great compromise of bmw style, muscle car grunt, and great handling. It is finally reaching its target market. A great family car that is budget friendly, stylish, and fast. For the money hands down beats out the Tauras.

Respectfully,

Roger

908ssp

Cougar or whatever it might be called with a Lincoln brand could be a real winner if pegged against the CTS-V but like anything it has to be done right.

There really was nothing wrong with the G8. Just bad timing and wishy washy management at GM. Pontiac should have been GM euro performance brand not Buick. But the chinese love Buicks and are you going to argue with the worlds largest untapped car market and the biggest consumers of Buicks?

Automagically

I agree with all of the above but the bold I pointed out because it's the unfortunate truth for the G8. I absolutely loved that car. If it had gotten better fuel mileage, I'd be in one right now. My absolute favorite sedan from the American market possibly even the euro market sold in the U.S. given it combined Euro flair with American muscle. Pontiac was slated to be the BMW of North America but they couldn't live down the terrible reputation, terrible marketing and minimal fan base. It just plain sucked.


As far as the Cougar or Lincoln LS, whatever the thought has turned to should be swayed by the current CTS-V coupe becoming a very hot ticket. But Lincoln has never brought anything like this to the table and probably never will.

black_bullitt

I like the idea of a Gran Torino coming back... I just saw a concept based for one based off that Interceptor concept a few days ago... Went searching for it, didn't find it, but I did find this, which is kind of interesting...

ford4v429

as for returning the Cougar, I wish they would have...when I first got my 06, I was(still am) in love with tthe car, but could see a lot of lost sales due to the rear legroom...I remember putting up threads over at blueovalforums asking the same...why not stretch it about 4", raise the rear roofline to notchback, make a cougar...I think it coulda happened- theres some GREAT chops over at BOF of cougar ideas too...

the cougar on the mustang and bringing back the 56 F100 body on the old ranger chassis I still think woulda been a couple 'gotta have it' cars...so easy just to pull the plug instead these days.

97svtgoin05gt

Wow, that is pretty cool I must say!

20115.0

^ thats awesome!

Wolfsburg

Looks much better than I would've imagined a modern Torino would!

jsaylor

I'll disagree, and I'll tell you why. The Pontiac G8 was a great rwd performance sedan, particularly for the money. The problem was that the G8 arrived not only in the midst of a down economy, but also at a time when people had already begun to expect either

1: a lot of feature content in their cars for that kind of money.

or 2: styling that can excuse a lack of content.

Option 1 explains why the Taurus, and the SHO in particular, is a success. In fact that has become Ford's strategy for the entire brand. Option 2 explains how the Charger and 300C made/make the cut, that and a rather low price of entry.

The G8 has the low price of entry, but it didn't have the attention grabbing styling of the 300C or the amenities and features of the Taurus. I'm not surprised that we are getting a Supra effect now where a car that was an obvious failure when new is succeeding after the fact. But, I'm likewise not surprised the G8 failed when new and it wouldn't fare any better if they tried the exact same formula over again.

It isn't enough to just be fast anymore, you have to bring something else to the table. And while the G8 was a better performance car than the Taurus, in almost every other way it wasn't nearly as good as the Taurus...and that killed it.

As for a Cougar cousin to the Mustang, in particular a modern day take on the original 67-70 model which is pretty obviously the version of that car most folks want to see revived, I think the likelihood is good that we'll get exactly that as a sort of revived take on the Lincoln Mk VII. The irony here being that the Lincoln Mk VII was, in terms of execution arguably a dead ringer for a modern day take on the original Cougar concept. Perhaps that explains why Mercury went away as much as anything; the entry level luxury niche that used to be filled by 'tweener' brands like Mercury is now a valued and necessary portion of the typical luxury brands portfolio.

rhumb

I would disagree in some part with Jsaylor as I don't think it was that the G8 was feature poor, though probably not a loaded to the gills as the Taurus, but rather, that its assets and attributes, and it had plenty of them, were a bit more subtle than what could readily be captured on a 10 page option list and then packaged into neat, tidy ads. I would suggest the G8's demise was the result of:

• Bad timing, especially to introduce a totally new car. This would have been a millstone around the neck of any new car and probably did more to doom it than anything else.
• Mediocre advertising that failed to adequately sell the cars qualitative assets beyond the quantitative aspects. Its rather easy to advertise that my car has X number of widgets more than the competition but more challenging to convey, say, the handling balance from a sophisticated and well balanced chassis. The latter, even if well done, does take some more time to sink into the market psyche and given the aforementioned bad economy and lack of time to develop that concept, well, that probably doomed the car. It did have many other inherent qualities over the Taurus too, such as much better interior space for example.
• It did have excellent looks, if not in quite the obvious flashy way of the Chrysler/Dodge big sedans. Again, like selling its more subtle dynamic qualities, its styling, too, was more subtle and sophisticated, appealing more to a more sophisticated market used to buying BMWs and Audis than, gasp, a Pontiac. Again, this would have taken time to for the G8 to develop credibility, but it never had that time.

As Mach1Fever mentions, the G8 was inherently an excellent car, perhaps the finest large RWD family sedan ever sold in America and a car I certainly would have had on my short list to replace my M3 when it comes time for a larger, newer car. In my mind, a stick shift GXP was pretty much a working man's BMW M5 and an incredible value. Sadly, only now are more people coming to that realization, if too late to buy the car (new) and save Pontiac.

Oh well, other than the very small chance Chevy may reintroduce this platform as a Caprice/Impala/Chevelle, which I think would be a stroke of unlikely genius, we'll never see it again.

jsaylor

The failure of the G8 is difficult to put into words and do so succinctly. That said, something in your reply may have helped me sum it up. In hindsight the primary problem with the G8 may be that it was a car built for a consumer that does not actually exist in meaningful numbers.

Content and luxury-driven consumers were going to be driven away from the G8 by a lack of the same within that car.

Consumers who are attracted to a car with overtly muscular or dynamic styling were driven away by the subtle styling cues of the G8.

Consumers who were attracted to the G8's subtle styling were likely, as you suggest, driven away by the fact that the car was a Pontiac/GM product.

That leaves the G8 with handling, great rear seat room, a good price, and excellent power. Unfortunately for Pontiac, I find myself increasingly convinced that stellar handling is not a significant selling point within this segment which isn't really a surprise given the history of this class of car on our shores. So, is the combination of a competitive price tag, good rear seat room, and a powerful engine sufficient to create a meaningful amount of sales to consumers who reside outside of the three types of consumers listed above?

Obviously it wasn't, and ultimately I think the G8 died due to....

1 ....a lack of both focus and understanding regarding who Pontiac/GM could actually sell a car too

...and...

2 ....too little effort dedicated to how they could make the G8 appeal to the type of customer who would consider such a car.

rhumb

Agreed for the most part.

I'm not sure that a market didn't/couldn't exist for the G8 particular qualities, but certainly if one did or could have, there just wasn't enough time and/or Pontiac failed to adequately appeal to it.

I tend to think that a potential, and large market, could have developed, kind of at the intersection of typical domestic consumers that like a lot of cheap power and room, but also heretofore import buyers that would love to buy a suitable domestic (seller at least) car with the proper level of sophistication and broad band performance (ride, handling and braking on top of simple acceleration) were it offered (the G8) and they were convinced it was the real deal (took too long for them to warm up to and be convinced). I'm more in the latter and, as mentioned, was quite taken overall by the G8, especially in GT and GXP trim.

That all said, perhaps there is more of a market for Chevy (or Buick?) version than Chevy realizes as they are probably gun-shy after the G8 experience, though I don't think that would be a proper analysis and conclusion.

Again, though, I think it was time, or the lack of, that primarily doomed the G8.

Tsbird1994

You do realize that the mustang was a rebadged/reskinned version of another Ford for its entire life (up until 05 when they finally built a dedicated chassis for it)

rhumb

True when you think about it. First it was basically a sporty Falcon variant.

Not sure what chassis the '71-'73 Stang shared, was it a carry over of the Falcon-based platform or more based on the Torino?

The Mustang II was essentially a tarted up Pinto and then the FoxStang of course shared the Fox chassis with any number of contemporaries from sedans to station wagons to whatever else.

The current Stang, the S-197 was originally developed off the Lincoln LS/Jag S-Type platform but by the time they got done with it, it was essentially a unique platform for better or worse.

mach1fever

I agree that the car arrived in a down economy. I don't agree with the content. The only thing it doesn't have is NAV because GM was/is trying to keep OnStar afloat. (It has a lot invested in it) Otherwise it has plenty of content. The Tauras was a complete redesign of a car that was 2 MY's newer. Thats comparing apples and oranges. If we are talking price points 28k is a lot cheaper than a fully optioned SHO at 43K. The styling is/was great and still gets plenty of looks. I think it was pretty in your face for a sport sedan but borrowed almost everything from the bimmer. I love the SHO but I wouldn't be a buyer at 38k+ that the SHO requires. Neither would the G8's target audience.(affluent 30 somethings with young children, a budget, and a penchant for speed) Bottom line is it didn't have enough marketing support, long enough to develop a fan base (there were very few made), or the timing to become a smash hit. Your logic works for the goat but not the G8 since it is a completely different audience. The goat was a great car but should not have been called a GTO.

Roger