Any chance of a dual clutch transmission top line Mustang?
8/18/10, 08:29 AM
#42
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Well, the Stang is also clomping about with a 19th century era lively axle...
On the other hand, Ford, as evidenced by the new 3.7, 5.0 and lastly, Boss 302, seems to be shedding the "good enough" attitude that prevailed during the S197s development and early years.
As for a DCT, I could potentially see it as a more speedy and efficient alternative to a slush box auto with a manual stick still there for heritage's sake and penny pinching if little else.
On the other hand, Ford, as evidenced by the new 3.7, 5.0 and lastly, Boss 302, seems to be shedding the "good enough" attitude that prevailed during the S197s development and early years.
As for a DCT, I could potentially see it as a more speedy and efficient alternative to a slush box auto with a manual stick still there for heritage's sake and penny pinching if little else.
Last edited by rhumb; 8/18/10 at 08:31 AM.
8/18/10, 11:22 AM
#43
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I received info from one notable insider that DCT for the larger motors is not in the pipeline. It is quite unfortunate, but considering the new autos for these cars aren't that particularly old - and are quite good in their own right - it probably makes sense that there isn't such plans for a DCT.
8/18/10, 03:55 PM
#44
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I received info from one notable insider that DCT for the larger motors is not in the pipeline. It is quite unfortunate, but considering the new autos for these cars aren't that particularly old - and are quite good in their own right - it probably makes sense that there isn't such plans for a DCT.
370Z demonstration in the video below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCWkQ...mbedded#at=137
Last edited by Adam; 8/18/10 at 04:16 PM.
8/19/10, 09:14 AM
#45
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I have a hard time believing this. The Mustang directly competes with the 370Z - and the Z has a much better automatic transmission. 7-speeds plus Downshift Rev Match. If Ford doesn't go DCT then at a very minimum they need a better automatic with paddle shifters. I'm not talking about laggy paddle shifters like you'll find in the Taurus. I want quick precise shifts similar to the Z. I'd rather have no paddle shifters than paddle shifters that are terrible. Do them right or don't do them at all.
370Z demonstration in the video below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCWkQ...mbedded#at=137
370Z demonstration in the video below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCWkQ...mbedded#at=137
8/22/10, 06:20 AM
#46
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I have a hard time believing this. The Mustang directly competes with the 370Z - and the Z has a much better automatic transmission. 7-speeds plus Downshift Rev Match. If Ford doesn't go DCT then at a very minimum they need a better automatic with paddle shifters. I'm not talking about laggy paddle shifters like you'll find in the Taurus. I want quick precise shifts similar to the Z. I'd rather have no paddle shifters than paddle shifters that are terrible. Do them right or don't do them at all.
370Z demonstration in the video below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCWkQ...mbedded#at=137
370Z demonstration in the video below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCWkQ...mbedded#at=137
Edit: On the subject of rev-matching and offering sequential paddle shifting, this can be incorporated with the Ford box as well. Firming up the shifts isn't a problem, either.
Last edited by Falc'man; 8/22/10 at 06:25 AM.
8/22/10, 04:42 PM
#47
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If getting a DCT means that Hill Start Assist is included with the regular manual, I personally hope it never shows up. The Fiesta now has "available hill start assist". It seems that HSA is added with the DCT transmissions, since there's a lag between you pressing the accelerator and the car moving forward. I've got a Porsche, and test drove models with the DCT. The lag drove me nuts. I opted for the 6 speed manual, but the hill start assist came along for the ride anyway. It's incredibly irritating to try to pull away from a light and to have the brakes hold you in place. You've got 2 seconds. Either rev past 1800 RPM, or pull through using lower RPM. Only it groans when you do that. Ever power braked an automatic car? That's what you're doing. HSA is one of the reasons that I'm dumping the Porsche for a GT500. Supply in central PA is low right now, so it looks like I'm going for a 2012.
8/22/10, 05:05 PM
#48
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That's true, the Mustang's other direct competitors, the Camaro and Challenger, use the same old slushbox style technology. I doubt Chevy is planning any kind of DCT in the Camaro anytime soon. While Ford may not have much motivation now, DCT in a Mustang could definitely steal some folks from the import scene. Especially if the ecoboost V6 becomes a reality.
Last edited by Adam; 8/22/10 at 05:06 PM.
8/23/10, 10:43 AM
#49
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I'd be OK with that.
That's true, the Mustang's other direct competitors, the Camaro and Challenger, use the same old slushbox style technology. I doubt Chevy is planning any kind of DCT in the Camaro anytime soon. While Ford may not have much motivation now, DCT in a Mustang could definitely steal some folks from the import scene. Especially if the ecoboost V6 becomes a reality.
That's true, the Mustang's other direct competitors, the Camaro and Challenger, use the same old slushbox style technology. I doubt Chevy is planning any kind of DCT in the Camaro anytime soon. While Ford may not have much motivation now, DCT in a Mustang could definitely steal some folks from the import scene. Especially if the ecoboost V6 becomes a reality.
Yes, the DCT is without doubt a huge improvement over the typical transmissions, and I agree that Ford need to beat it's local competitors to the punch in offering such a unit. The Ecoboost in the stang is a certainty, and this box would complement it perfectly.
8/23/10, 02:03 PM
#50
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No. It's just in it's own league compared to the automatic you'll find in the Mustang/Camaro/Challenge. At least IMO.
In summary, no DCT is okay as long as the standard automatic receives the following improvements:
1. Sports Mode (similar to BMW) that forces the transmission to stay in gear longer without immediately up-shifting
2. Paddle shifters that shift quickly
3. Rev matching similar to 370Z
I think it would be a great improvement. If Ford doesn't want that to be the standard configuration, charge $499 and call it the Automatic Sports Package.
In summary, no DCT is okay as long as the standard automatic receives the following improvements:
1. Sports Mode (similar to BMW) that forces the transmission to stay in gear longer without immediately up-shifting
2. Paddle shifters that shift quickly
3. Rev matching similar to 370Z
I think it would be a great improvement. If Ford doesn't want that to be the standard configuration, charge $499 and call it the Automatic Sports Package.
Last edited by Adam; 8/23/10 at 02:14 PM.
9/21/10, 02:54 PM
#51
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Would be nice, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Of course, I'm basing this on Ford's "Good enough" mantra, which they seem to be vigorously replacing with a "Great" mantra of late if their latest products (including the 3.7 and 5.0 Mustang updates) are any indication.
I think a DCT would be fantastic for these newer, higher-reving motor that benefit most from a slew of tightly packed and quickly swapped cogs. I've driven a couple Audis/VWs with their DCT and think they are the clear tranny tech of the future -- and this coming from an old dyed-in-the-wool stick wiggler. It's hard to argue about the ease and practicality of a slush-box combined with the speed, control and efficiency of a manual. Eye-blink, sub-.100 msec. shifts without even taking one's paws off the rim are fantastic for driving speed and control.
If I were head of Ford, I'd mandate that all current slush boxes and manuals be replaced by DCTs. This would halve the number of trannies Ford would have to make, simplify everything from R&D through production and certification to parts, repairs and warranty at the back end. Better, IMHO, to focus all efforts and resources into developing one superb DCT rather than spreading it out over two good-enough old-school trannies. Heck, that's what Ferrari, the paragon of performance, seems clearly to be doing.
Now let's hear from those who still rue the passing of the 4-bbl carb, leaf springs and drum brakes...
I think a DCT would be fantastic for these newer, higher-reving motor that benefit most from a slew of tightly packed and quickly swapped cogs. I've driven a couple Audis/VWs with their DCT and think they are the clear tranny tech of the future -- and this coming from an old dyed-in-the-wool stick wiggler. It's hard to argue about the ease and practicality of a slush-box combined with the speed, control and efficiency of a manual. Eye-blink, sub-.100 msec. shifts without even taking one's paws off the rim are fantastic for driving speed and control.
If I were head of Ford, I'd mandate that all current slush boxes and manuals be replaced by DCTs. This would halve the number of trannies Ford would have to make, simplify everything from R&D through production and certification to parts, repairs and warranty at the back end. Better, IMHO, to focus all efforts and resources into developing one superb DCT rather than spreading it out over two good-enough old-school trannies. Heck, that's what Ferrari, the paragon of performance, seems clearly to be doing.
Now let's hear from those who still rue the passing of the 4-bbl carb, leaf springs and drum brakes...
Take the new Nissan GTR for instance. No-one is denying it is a very capable car. But anyone can drive the car quickly... because it does pretty much everything for you. It's a car for the Playstation generation (and I like video games!).
Nope, give me a manual gearbox and foot operated clutch over the above every day of the week. I want a sense of involvement when driving, not to press a lone finger on a switch that suddenly engages gear. How boring is that!?
Be careful what you wish for... a lot of modern cars are utterly boring to drive because they do so much for you. The Mustang was made to be driven, and that means the user should be swapping the cogs... not a bunch of electronics.
9/21/10, 08:00 PM
#52
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What do you want ...a drivers car? ...or a Playstation?
Take the new Nissan GTR for instance. No-one is denying it is a very capable car. But anyone can drive the car quickly... because it does pretty much everything for you. It's a car for the Playstation generation (and I like video games!).
Nope, give me a manual gearbox and foot operated clutch over the above every day of the week. I want a sense of involvement when driving, not to press a lone finger on a switch that suddenly engages gear. How boring is that!?
Be careful what you wish for... a lot of modern cars are utterly boring to drive because they do so much for you. The Mustang was made to be driven, and that means the user should be swapping the cogs... not a bunch of electronics.
Take the new Nissan GTR for instance. No-one is denying it is a very capable car. But anyone can drive the car quickly... because it does pretty much everything for you. It's a car for the Playstation generation (and I like video games!).
Nope, give me a manual gearbox and foot operated clutch over the above every day of the week. I want a sense of involvement when driving, not to press a lone finger on a switch that suddenly engages gear. How boring is that!?
Be careful what you wish for... a lot of modern cars are utterly boring to drive because they do so much for you. The Mustang was made to be driven, and that means the user should be swapping the cogs... not a bunch of electronics.
9/29/10, 02:30 PM
#53
Shelby GT350 Member
The Z's manual gear box has rev matching as well. A.K.A. I double clutch for you sir. It seems like a really awesome feature...for my wife who has never driven a manual. Just so no one thinks I'm knocking it, I do think this feature is pretty **** cool though.
I waiver on the DCT. I don't agree with them but I can't argue the performance aspect. To me a DCT is no better than a good automatic. I am not saying I haven't grown to love the paddles in my BMW but my biggest craving is the power. I can shift my manual Si for the fun of shifting. My wife can keep the luxury. I'm happy she wants to learn by using the paddles but I still just don't like the DCT.
That said, I think somewhere in the future it will have a place in the Mustang as it becomes even more common place than it is. Even though the Mustang sports a log axle, I still consider it to be a cutting edge pony this day in age.
Side note: Log axles are like 1911 pistols, everyone has a variant and over the years they have gotten better and better. There is a reason Special Operations have carried the 1911 for so many years. Reliability, accuracy, robustness and consistency. Sorry, just a side note.
I waiver on the DCT. I don't agree with them but I can't argue the performance aspect. To me a DCT is no better than a good automatic. I am not saying I haven't grown to love the paddles in my BMW but my biggest craving is the power. I can shift my manual Si for the fun of shifting. My wife can keep the luxury. I'm happy she wants to learn by using the paddles but I still just don't like the DCT.
That said, I think somewhere in the future it will have a place in the Mustang as it becomes even more common place than it is. Even though the Mustang sports a log axle, I still consider it to be a cutting edge pony this day in age.
Side note: Log axles are like 1911 pistols, everyone has a variant and over the years they have gotten better and better. There is a reason Special Operations have carried the 1911 for so many years. Reliability, accuracy, robustness and consistency. Sorry, just a side note.
9/30/10, 07:08 AM
#55
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[QUOTE=Side note: Log axles are like 1911 pistols, everyone has a variant and over the years they have gotten better and better. There is a reason Special Operations have carried the 1911 for so many years. Reliability, accuracy, robustness and consistency. Sorry, just a side note.[/QUOTE]
Brilliant analogy!
Brilliant analogy!
9/30/10, 10:29 AM
#56
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Or perhaps more like this. Yeah, it does get the ball out of the barrel, but there are better modern solutions.
9/30/10, 11:54 AM
#57
Shelby GT350 Member
Thanks 
I'd like to think so too...
Apparently I walked into that one...hypothetically anyway.
Though this is a bit extreme since the modern bullet is above the ball or lead in years past, it's not the same wagon axle that were used in the Oklahoma Land run either.
So I see the point and lets say, like some have thought, FMC offered an optional bolt in IRS, ala...
And say offered this package for an extra...what seems fair? $3500? $4500. Steep but I think it'd get some hits. Why not. Not super cost effective but these bolt ons are already being built up. Hell take away the chrome coating and just coat the kit to suit the rust needs and you can shave a few hundred right there.
It's an IRS in a box.
1. Cut a hole in that box(frame)
2. Put your junk(IRS) in that box
3. Make her open that box(WOT)
...and that's the way you do it.
At some point a DCT may be in the future as well. For now the marketing dept. says that Mustang drivers who want Auto's just want the plain ole' Auto.
I'd like to think so too...Though this is a bit extreme since the modern bullet is above the ball or lead in years past, it's not the same wagon axle that were used in the Oklahoma Land run either.
So I see the point and lets say, like some have thought, FMC offered an optional bolt in IRS, ala...
And say offered this package for an extra...what seems fair? $3500? $4500. Steep but I think it'd get some hits. Why not. Not super cost effective but these bolt ons are already being built up. Hell take away the chrome coating and just coat the kit to suit the rust needs and you can shave a few hundred right there.
It's an IRS in a box.
1. Cut a hole in that box(frame)
2. Put your junk(IRS) in that box
3. Make her open that box(WOT)
...and that's the way you do it.
At some point a DCT may be in the future as well. For now the marketing dept. says that Mustang drivers who want Auto's just want the plain ole' Auto.
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