2015 Mustang:Horsepower Unleashed – Motivating the All-New Ford Mustang with Improved
7/24/14, 12:55 PM
#101
Cobra Member
Again, in my opinion of course, I don't see how that is all necessary to make it more "truck worthy." I'm not disputing the engine has differences... Unless, they were purposely handicapping the F-150 5.0 to bolster EcoBoost sales. Take a look at local lots - the dealers hardly order 5.0 trucks and they get extra incentives to sell EcoBoost trucks...
That being said. I was planning on an f150 with the 3.5eco. But with that 2.7eco giving a ton of tq and better mpg (bc the 3.5eco is actually pretty terrible in real life). I'm stoked!!!
7/24/14, 12:58 PM
#102
Cobra Member
Let me try to illustrate this a bit better. The 5.0 in the Mustang makes less torque under 3,000rpm than the 5.0 in the F-150 does. I've seen it on a dyno, and both vehicles had a 6R80 with a 3.15 axle. The F-150 needs all its torque down low to for towing(obviously lol), as the 5.0 mustang engine doesn't produce good torque numbers for towing below 3,500rpm, which most people are driving their vehicles at. Actually, I've constantly been thinking how much less low end torque my 5.0 has over my old Chevy LS engine the more I drive it. These 5.0s are the K20 of V8s, in the fact that they need to be spun high to make power. I hope I'm not coming off as a know-it-all, but I've been building and machining V8 engines since I was 15. The differences between the two 5.0 engines are as clear as day to an engine builder. The parts mentioned would easily drop 60hp. I just don't see where the 10tq was lost. Perhaps in the camshaft timing, or maybe marketing on the 5.0>3.5TT feud. Here's stock dyno numbers of a 5.0 F-150 to back up my claims. Stock coyote mustangs put down roughly 360hp/350tq. These are SAE corrected. http://m.f150forum.com/showthread.ph...311&styleid=20 What is selling the EcoBoost F-150, IMHO, is the MPG lie that Ford is marketing. My fathers EB can't get better than 17mpg, yet it's rated at something like 22mpg.
7/24/14, 01:07 PM
#103
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It allows for the higher compression engine which gives better power before the turbo spools.
It allows the intake and exhaust ports to be open simultaneously to allow air to flow through the engine keeping the turbos spooled up.
And I'm sure there's more I can't think of right now.
7/24/14, 01:13 PM
#105
Legacy TMS Member
I'll add that I do get what you're saying Patrick, in the fact that why would they take a perfectly fine 5.0 coyote and detune it for a truck. I honestly think Ford could have designed a more efficient truck motor out of the 5.0 than they did, but I do understand some of the changes made where necessary to make this high revving V8 more truck oriented. In that aspect, I suppose they didn't want the V8 to have more power than their twin-turbo v6, so they could sell more.
Not to mention the whole aluminum thing...
7/24/14, 04:53 PM
#106
Cobra Member
http://blog.caranddriver.com/2015-fo...boost-engines/
Just published.
It says the Eco4 hits peak tq at 3000rpms and runs to ~5500rpms.
Thought most interesting is the improvements to the MT-82 and the differential (mainly to make up some durability from the loss of a LRA).
"The Getrag-supplied MT82 six-speed manual gets revised low-drag synchros and a new, stiffer linkage to improve shift quality. The manual’s shifter also switches from pushing down to access the reverse gate to a lift-up collar on the shifter.
Ford’s in-house final drive was also reworked, with the company fitting 9.8-inch differential internals in an 8.8-inch-sized unit with a stiffer ring, pinion, and case. Those hurting from the loss of an ultra-durable live rear axle should find salve for their wounds in that fact. Manual-transmission cars use an iron differential carrier to combat the impact loads of high-rpm manual shifts, whereas the automatic cars have an aluminum carrier. Both manual and automatic cars employ an aluminum differential cover. For the record, the iron carrier is 24 pounds heavier than the aluminum one."
Just published.
It says the Eco4 hits peak tq at 3000rpms and runs to ~5500rpms.
Thought most interesting is the improvements to the MT-82 and the differential (mainly to make up some durability from the loss of a LRA).
"The Getrag-supplied MT82 six-speed manual gets revised low-drag synchros and a new, stiffer linkage to improve shift quality. The manual’s shifter also switches from pushing down to access the reverse gate to a lift-up collar on the shifter.
Ford’s in-house final drive was also reworked, with the company fitting 9.8-inch differential internals in an 8.8-inch-sized unit with a stiffer ring, pinion, and case. Those hurting from the loss of an ultra-durable live rear axle should find salve for their wounds in that fact. Manual-transmission cars use an iron differential carrier to combat the impact loads of high-rpm manual shifts, whereas the automatic cars have an aluminum carrier. Both manual and automatic cars employ an aluminum differential cover. For the record, the iron carrier is 24 pounds heavier than the aluminum one."
7/25/14, 06:21 AM
#107
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I can't recall the exact article that I read that spoke about the valve overlap so I'm not sure if they specified at what RPM this happened. However, they specifically said they could do this with the direct injection because they can prevent the flow of gas into the cylinder during this time. Something that is impossible with port fuel injection. I don't see why air flowing straight through the engine would cause any sort of emissions issue.
7/25/14, 04:56 PM
#108
Funny, how the 4 banger is bigger news than the V8. I love it. Bring that 4 banger out baby. Its gonna rock. Put a good tune on there and you will be mid 300's for HP and high 300's for torque. Let the games begin.
7/25/14, 04:59 PM
#109
7/25/14, 05:31 PM
#110
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Also, Consumer Reports recently reported that all the EB Fords they have tested fell significantly short of their sticker mileage ratings. The new EB may be great - just do your homework before buying. Personally, I think Ford has "bet the ranch" on the EB and must hype it regardless of its real world mileage and durability.
7/25/14, 06:20 PM
#111
Legacy TMS Member
I would be very careful buying the EcoBoost based on my experience with a 2011 F-150 Platinum with the 3.5 EB. It was rated at 21 mpg highway, but would not get more than 17.5 on the highway at a constant 60 mph. It did have tons of torque and power, however. Also, Consumer Reports recently reported that all the EB Fords they have tested fell significantly short of their sticker mileage ratings. The new EB may be great - just do your homework before buying. Personally, I think Ford has "bet the ranch" on the EB and must hype it regardless of its real world mileage and durability.
7/25/14, 06:34 PM
#112
I'd choose the EcoBoost over the V6 not because of MPG but because it has more low end torque thats available lower in the RPM range. Also the weight distribution is a little better at 52/48. Also tuners are going to have a blast with this engine.
However I have my mind set that if I were to buy another Mustang it must be a GT.
However I have my mind set that if I were to buy another Mustang it must be a GT.
7/25/14, 09:23 PM
#113
Bullitt Member
I hear ya, and agree. I'm not saying the engine isn't detuned and doesn't make less power in different RPM ranges. And yeah I love winding out my 5.0, and I'll even agree to the K20 comment lol. You know what I'm saying though and I'll stand by it, especially considering the crap mileage and crap durability I've personally seen on the 3.5TT. The 2.7 makes some GREAT numbers, but we'll see how it holds up.
Not to mention the whole aluminum thing...
. The only reason I can see why the deliberately detuned the 5.0 so much is to sell the 3.5TT, like you were saying. I agree with you, as I believe the 3.5TT is lowkey junk, or at least not what Ford hyped it to be. The marketed mileage has gotta be a flat out lie from what I've experienced and been told by numerous members(including you) on this forum. The 2.7 does make excellent numbers, I'm glad you mention that because I didn't know about that engine. That Aluminum structure is a subject for another day hahah .How're you liking your coyote? Do you need new tires yet? :P
It's nice they have something for everyone now. V8 for the performance oriented, Turbo I4 for the average person that wants some good passing power(or the turbo lovers), and the V6 for the high school girls :P
Last edited by KushBandit; 7/26/14 at 02:10 AM.
7/25/14, 09:29 PM
#114
I would be very careful buying the EcoBoost based on my experience with a 2011 F-150 Platinum with the 3.5 EB. It was rated at 21 mpg highway, but would not get more than 17.5 on the highway at a constant 60 mph. It did have tons of torque and power, however.
Also, Consumer Reports recently reported that all the EB Fords they have tested fell significantly short of their sticker mileage ratings. The new EB may be great - just do your homework before buying. Personally, I think Ford has "bet the ranch" on the EB and must hype it regardless of its real world mileage and durability.
Also, Consumer Reports recently reported that all the EB Fords they have tested fell significantly short of their sticker mileage ratings. The new EB may be great - just do your homework before buying. Personally, I think Ford has "bet the ranch" on the EB and must hype it regardless of its real world mileage and durability.
7/25/14, 10:07 PM
#115
Cobra Member
I can't speak personally about an EB. But I can get way below or way above the sticker mpgs on the mustang just by slightly adjusting driving habits. For example, just by using 6th gear as often as possible nets about 2mpg vs using it rarely. My neighbor has a f150 EB and he gets around 17-18mpg too. But I think driving habits have a lot to do with the underperformance.
7/26/14, 12:02 AM
#116
Bullitt Member
I can't speak personally about an EB. But I can get way below or way above the sticker mpgs on the mustang just by slightly adjusting driving habits. For example, just by using 6th gear as often as possible nets about 2mpg vs using it rarely. My neighbor has a f150 EB and he gets around 17-18mpg too. But I think driving habits have a lot to do with the underperformance.
7/26/14, 07:52 AM
#118
Legacy TMS Member
My father has a '13 F-150 Ecoboost platinum, and we've only gotten it to 17.5 mpg. My father drives like an oldman and rarely ever goes WOT. I tried as best as I could and couldn't best his mileage. On the other hand, my '11 gets better mileage than my window sticker advertised. I can get 17 city while babying it from light to light, and 28 highway when I'm cruising at 60-65mph.
7/26/14, 10:22 AM
#119
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I would be very careful buying the EcoBoost based on my experience with a 2011 F-150 Platinum with the 3.5 EB. It was rated at 21 mpg highway, but would not get more than 17.5 on the highway at a constant 60 mph. It did have tons of torque and power, however.
Also, Consumer Reports recently reported that all the EB Fords they have tested fell significantly short of their sticker mileage ratings. The new EB may be great - just do your homework before buying. Personally, I think Ford has "bet the ranch" on the EB and must hype it regardless of its real world mileage and durability.
Also, Consumer Reports recently reported that all the EB Fords they have tested fell significantly short of their sticker mileage ratings. The new EB may be great - just do your homework before buying. Personally, I think Ford has "bet the ranch" on the EB and must hype it regardless of its real world mileage and durability.
Dave
7/26/14, 11:05 AM
#120
I'm picking up what you're putting down . The only reason I can see why the deliberately detuned the 5.0 so much is to sell the 3.5TT, like you were saying. I agree with you, as I believe the 3.5TT is lowkey junk, or at least not what Ford hyped it to be. The marketed mileage has gotta be a flat out lie from what I've experienced and been told by numerous members(including you) on this forum. The 2.7 does make excellent numbers, I'm glad you mention that because I didn't know about that engine. That Aluminum structure is a subject for another day hahah . How're you liking your coyote? Do you need new tires yet? :P Of course it is, it's the first Turbo 4-cylinder to be in a mustang since the SVO, where as the mustang has essentially always had a V8 option. Also, Fords whole new flagship to the public is this EcoBoost line. I'd rather see a twin turbo v6 under the hood. That would definitely be something new for a mustang. It's nice they have something for everyone now. V8 for the performance oriented, Turbo I4 for the average person that wants some good passing power(or the turbo lovers), and the V6 for the high school girls :P
. The only reason I can see why the deliberately detuned the 5.0 so much is to sell the 3.5TT, like you were saying. I agree with you, as I believe the 3.5TT is lowkey junk, or at least not what Ford hyped it to be. The marketed mileage has gotta be a flat out lie from what I've experienced and been told by numerous members(including you) on this forum. The 2.7 does make excellent numbers, I'm glad you mention that because I didn't know about that engine. That Aluminum structure is a subject for another day hahah . How're you liking your coyote? Do you need new tires yet? :P Of course it is, it's the first Turbo 4-cylinder to be in a mustang since the SVO, where as the mustang has essentially always had a V8 option. Also, Fords whole new flagship to the public is this EcoBoost line. I'd rather see a twin turbo v6 under the hood. That would definitely be something new for a mustang. It's nice they have something for everyone now. V8 for the performance oriented, Turbo I4 for the average person that wants some good passing power(or the turbo lovers), and the V6 for the high school girls :P
