F1 2013 Season (Spoilers Inside)
 

I'm surprised no one has talked about the 2013 season yet especially with how good the season was last year. I have to say I am really pulling for Ferrari this year. I am enamored with Alonso, and hope that he can grab a title this year. Massa is really good as well, but Alonso just has that charisma.


Ok, to the ***spoilers***

Melbourne was wet during qualifications 1-3, and I could not be happier with that. Finally some wet tire practice time under the drivers' belts. Couple spins, but no injuries made for a very interesting first round of qualification.

2nd and 3rd were exciting to see, especially interesting in 3rd where the track dried enough for the drivers to migrate to the SuperSoft Pirellis instead of the Intermediates they started the session on. Button, I believe, threw down the first impressive lap time on the SS tires, but was quickly bumped down the ladder.

At the end of qualifications we saw two Red Bulls leading the pack followed by Alonso in his Ferrari, Hamilton in his Mercedes AMG (Glad to see him make the jump), and Massa in his Ferrari.

Amazingly little drama happened at the first corner in Melbourne, and the cars all kept it fairly tidy through the entire race with retiring occurring only for mechanical/electrical faults and none from collisions. A great way to start the season. I don't mind spins like we saw in Q1, but I am not a fan of the big crashes.

I have to say that I'm extremely disappointed with how NBC chose to display the race. I wasn't even aware that Raikkonen had taken first place until during commercials the order flashed on screen after Alonso had come out of the pits. Up until that point I believed that Alonso had kept the lead, and I was pretty surprised that by that point Kimi already had a substantial lead.

There was a lot of passing in the second DRS zone between turns two and three which was extremely fun to watch. Alonso keeping Vettel behind him was awesome.

Another shock to me was Sutil doing so well keeping the tires together for ten laps longer than the other front runners. Those SuperSofts should just be banned. Tires that look that tattered after 8 laps on his Force India shouldn't even be provided on race day.

The finishing positions were a bit surprising to me, especially because I hadn't really seen Kimi all race (started in 9th after a very slow Q3), but finishing 10 seconds ahead of Alonso is an impressive feat (If only the Caterhams would have just moved out of his way). I'm really not sure what I don't like about Vettel, but he just isn't impressive to me. He seems like a decent guy in the interviews, so I don't dislike him like I do Maldonado(Don't get me started... I was so glad to see him slide off turn 1 and get stuck, I was practically giddy), but I just can't like the guy. Anyway, him getting 3rd behind Fernando and Kimi just made my day.

Anybody else watch the race or am I the only nut here?

I believe it is playing again tomorrow at 1:00 on NBC Sports if you didn't catch it tonight (I don't blame you).

Just finished watching the race and very nice to see Kimi atop the podium! Kimi started 7th not 9th, by the way.

I thought Force India was great and Mclaren was disappointing. Will Weber ever learn how to start a race properly? Would like to see Perez win a race this season. And Estaban Gutierrez has the best name since Vitantonio Liuzzi!

I thought NBC did a very nice job with their first race. Should be a great season.

Honestly I didn't even pay attention to where Kimi started. He was ninth in Q3 when I looked for him. He didn't even hit the track until about the 6 minute mark, and there was a lot of mobility at the top of the board which was more interesting. Seeing him on top of the podium was a big surprise, and I was happy to see him strutting his stuff. I could not believe how fast his Lotus pulled away from the Force India car right after the pass. Looks like they are going to have a good season if that performance is repeatable.

I'm not sure if the McLaren's are disappointing, or if the drivers are lackluster. Checo qualifying 15th when Button held the top spot for a while just shows the difference in talent levels there. Unfortunately that didn't change the race finish, 9th and 11th is not where McLaren's should be.

Mercedes is starting to scare me. I wanted to root for Hamilton this season, but despite his ability it just looked like the car let him down when it came to power. His team mate (Rosberg) having to retire during turn 4 was painful to watch(explaining to my girlfriend that "retiring" did not mean he was quitting the team at 1 in the morning was also no easy task). I hope that they get whatever that was sorted out. They were saying gearbox trouble, but that was a lot of smoke for a broken gearbox. I hope Hamilton can keep this up and prove he didn't just make the move for the money, but because he believed being a bigger part of development was more important than just driving.

I didn't watch it, but I like the results. I just don't want another season where Vettel wins everything. Good for Kimi!

I think Mercedes will win once, maybe twice this year, but remember, they're focusing their efforts and resources more on the car for next year.

I'm liking what I'm seeing from NBC so far, they've had lots of coverage, and I love the reshowing of the race later on in the day.

i'm an alonso/massa/ferrari fan. however i've been in awe of hamilton's and vettle's dominance streaks. hat's off to redbull too although they cheat (hahaha). i can't wait to watch this season unfold and 2nd place finish is good a good start!

I'm a huge Alonso/Ferrari fan. I agree with what Alonso said after the race, "fantastic." Much better than last year already. He is by far the best driver in the field. He deserves another title and hopefully he gets it this year.

My favorite team was McLaren since Mika Hakkinen days. Currently, I like Kimi Raikkonen the most, I'm glad he won today.

Adrian Newey is pure genius.

Find somewhere to watch next week's race! :D Any predictions? Lots of chances to pass with the two very long DRS zones.

EDIT: http://www.gptoday.com/details/view/...d#.UUh-0Fs9ywI

Nevermind, looks like there will still just be the one along the pit stretch.

which is really odd, since Sepang has two really long straights!

Yeah, but think of the advantage someone would have getting two DRS zones in a row like that. It could make a close 1-2 into an easy pass and great gain.

Although the DRS zones are meant for passing I don't think they should give an advantage beyond that. After the pass it should be up to the driver to make a lead.

**spoilers**

And consider me extremely disappointed. I had high hopes for Alonso today. Good bye front wing. Good bye race 2.

*spoiler alert*


same here, hated to see Alonso's result


also, I was really hoping the Red Bulls would take each other out, I'm so tired of Vettel finishing at the top every race.

Great race . . . and team orders rear their proverbial ugly head again!!

Did you see the post-finish shot in the green room before the Red Bull drivers went out on the podium?

I did!! It's the first time I have watched all of the post-race coverage in a long time!

That interchange between Webber and Vettel was the story of the race, even though there were few words. The looks alone told the story. I thought Webber should have won.

Now that most people will have seen it, that was ridiculous, and makes me dislike Vettel even more. They tell both drivers to throttle back and coast to victory, and Vettel gives a big FU to Weber, who has stayed behind him when he was faster. By the time Weber realized what was going on, there was nothing he could do (needed to save fuel, on the harder tires). This will be interesting to see play out for the rest of the season.

Also, the exchange between Hamilton and Rosberg was interesting. Seeing the post race comments Lewis made, I wouldn't be surprised to see him pull over for Rosberg in the same situation later on in the year. He knew he was slower, and it was almost as if he wasn't aware Nico was told to stay behind and felt bad about it.

Well is this something new, the depth of which has escaped me? The tension between vet and web?

I knew I didn't like Vetted, but I didn't have a real reason before this race. I like Webber and seeing Vettel throw a fit since he wasn't in front was ridiculous. I didn't hear the team radio correspondences until today, and didn't know that Vettel had been told and confirmed to hang back yet he pushed anyway knowing that Webber had followed orders. There was nothing to gain for the team. Webber had it in the bag. If he didn't he would have gone for it and kicked Vettel's butt.

Nico was told to hold position, which is reasonable. There is no gain if you race your own team to get the same points for the team and risk trying to pass your team mate if something goes wrong. Hamilton is in it to win, and I know if Rosberg went for a pass they would be racing through the finish line.

I'm just getting back into F1 this year so I have a ton of reading to do. I do plan to catch the European race at the Nurbugring on July 7th this year. Tickets aren't too spendy. I will be driving the Mustang up there so there might be some Paparazzi just like pretty much everywhere else I go here in Germany.

Hey Steve!

How's Germany?

This season will be great, and I can't wait to see what the teams do for the new regulations for next year.

I really did not like Q3 last night. What? 3.5 minutes of actual on-track times? Vettel didn't even set a lap time.

I am very happy to see Hamilton up front instead of Seb, and the next two Raikkonen and Alonso makes me pretty excited for the race.

I can't believe the luck, or lack thereof, of Mark Webber. Man, he's had it hard as of late. Running out of fuel on-track lead to him retire in Q2 then he was penalized since he did not have the full liter of fuel to test when the car was brought back. We'll see what he can do starting from the very back. Should be a good race for him, but it is very frustrating to see what's been going on for him lately.

I am not the first person to say this, but I'm sure most people agree: this tire situation is idiotic. 10 laps is the life on the optionals. Pathetic. I understand that the dynamics of tire choices being so varied allows for more strategy, but I want to see a race. I want to see guys going fast on track and not babying the car to make sure the tires last long enough.

For that reason alone, I think that this track will work to Kimi's advantage in the race tonight. The Lotus has been very soft on tires, so I think they will be able to go further on each set giving them a huge advantage at this track.

Tonight's going to be an awesome race. When the front runners have to pit after ~10 laps and drop back on to the track they will likely be hitting the middle of the pack if the others start on the primes. Should make for an awesome run for everyone as a lot of the teams who aren't usually close get to mix it up together. I'm stoked.

I know that Primes have to be used for at least 40% of the race, but is that true for optionals too? If I were on the grid today, I'd rather take the slower tire all day and go for distance instead of out-and-out speed if it means I need to take a 30 second pit.

Riccardo getting 7th on the grid and 5th in Q2 was pretty awesome. I'm excited to see him qualifying so well.

I actually like that the tires degrade so fast, gives much more strategy opportunities, and it makes the drivers have to look after the tires instead of going balls to the wall on the softs.


I'm pretty sure I heard this will be Mark Webber's last year in F1, and that he's going to race with Porsche's next year at the World Endurance Championships. I say good for him, he's too good of a driver to be treated like he is at Red Bull.

I never knew anything about the 40% rule, just that under dry conditions teams had to use both tires.

You guys could well be right. I don't know where I heard that, but looks like you both were right on with what www.formula1.com

hmmm, maybe there's more to the rule, but that above says 30 seconds added if you don't use both. Sounds like it's better to use just one. It takes longer than 30 seconds to go down pit lane and swap tires.

So if a team gets in a bind, just stay out. Instead of losing 45-50 seconds going for a pitstop, just stay out and lose only 30? hmmmmmmmm....


edit: it says "race suspended" but why would any race be suspended without it being wet?

Poor Webber can't get a **** break!

Not gonna say anything but: Holy cow what an incredible finish! Outstanding!

Most pit stop times (In-Stop-Out) are under 30 seconds. I think today's delta was ~19-20 seconds . . .

yeah, apparently. I swear it seems longer than 20 seconds though.

Years ago F1 drivers were gentlemen - in it to win but still sportsmen. These days too many are jerks. Vettel certainly showed that and, while many of you seem to like Alonso, I got really fed up with him and his attitude when he and Hamilton were team mates. I was delighted to see Hamilton keep Vettel off the podium in China.

I was so happy he kept Vettel behind. I'm at the point where I pretty much hate Vettel. I've never rooted so hard for a 3rd place result in my life, especially since it seemed certain he'd catch Lewis.

A very long time ago, i.e., before Senna and Michael.

People also seem quicker to judge young drivers nowadays. I think Fernando has matured quite a bit over the years . . . as most of us have (or should).

Even if the two aren't the best of pals, in interviews both of them consistently praise the other as a great driver. I don't expect everyone to be chums like Webber and Button seem to be, but the respect Hamilton and Alonso have shown through what I've seen has been admirable.

I want to say that when they were team mates it seemed (to me) like Alonso expected preferential treatment in deciding the equipment they would use which is not uncharacteristic for a more experienced driver. I'm sure he was also just as surprised as everyone else that Hamilton was putting him through his paces.

Edit: from today: http://m.guardiannews.com/sport/2013...lewis-hamilton

Saw this commercial pop up on Reddit today from the 2007 season at McLaren. Thought it was fitting for the discussion here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt7vD6_tblw

Dangit, can't believe i am just now catching this thread! Huge F1 fan here! This season has been incredible so far! Go Lewis and Kimi! :D

Stangmahn Germany is good save for the weather but then again I'm in the armpit called Bavaria down south. The best is when the weather is nice I can take advantage of all the country roads with unrestricted speed limits. Oh and I just found out that my Bosses wife is brazillian and a very good friend of her dad happens to be Helio C. I'm trying to get him to see if he will help us get special passes for July. I know he drives in Indy but it can't hurt to ask.

cool man! Never know who people you know might know!


Glad the race is on at a reasonable hour this week, that staying up will 5 was getting old

Reasonable hour? So freaking early... I'd rather stay up until 1-2 than to get up at 4:30. Haha. It was a great race with a lot of contact, and some drama with mechanical and tire issues. I have no idea what happened with Massa's tire falling apart like that.

Anybody else excited to see the boys in Spain? I'm stoked to see everyone in good form since they all have had extra practice on this track. Should be awesome.

great race, great results, and I like the strategies...I'll post more later once everyone has seen it

Darn good race indeed!

unless it was camera angle and lighting enhancing what i saw on tv, i don't think i've ever seen so many marbles (slag?) off the racing line! i really didn't think there was a "tire issue", more of an annoyance that got press. like will buxton commented though, from ferrari's point of view it's not an issue.

the slag has been awful all year, this race not even as bad as the last couple. But this is what F1 wants from Pirelli. They could make tires that last the whole race, but they don't want to. This makes strategy important.

Everyone knows how the tires are, grow up and deal with it.

Not sure if I'm supposed to post this, but I think all of the races are posted on Vimeo right now. Search for F1 2013 - xxxxxx Grand Prix - Race, and I see at least 4 there. :)

Edit: They were taken down. They might be re-hosted. I am in no way suggesting that you should do this, but there is a download button...

As for the race. I am not opposed to pit stops, and reading about how they are going back to 2012 spec tires in Canada and beyond has me a little sad. I'm fine with them using the old tires since the delamination of several over the past two weekends is extremely frightening, but why not go to a more durable tire and do a longer race? The argument I've been hearing against these tires is that they force pit-stops and passing happens in the pits which is not as exciting, but if we saw more durable tires for longer stints in a longer race where 3/4 stop strategies would still work it would make for very interesting racing.

they won't go to longer races because the teams and drivers won't allow it. Aside from the fact they'll have to do something about the fueling situation.

F1 actually has a time limit for the races, something agreed upon by the drivers if I'm not mistaken. After some races are done, those guys are flat worn out.

2 hours is the limit, and this race ended in 1:39 I believe. 20 minutes more to hit the time limit would mean 10 more laps. Fuel would be a big issue.

The racing/strategy is great this season . . . teams will always find something to complain about from year-to-year.

And glad to see Honda back in F1 . . . in 2015. http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsp...ry/108157.html

Honda confirms return to F1 in 2015

I saw that. I wonder what livery they will use now that they are losing both Mercedes and Vodafone.

Seems like that sets up McLaren for another hard run next season. Building a new car around a new drivetrain that they will only have for one season is quite the expensive endeavor. I hope that we can see them pick back up soon.

great race, but the results are not what they should have been.

ok i'll bite, what should they have been?

what camera shot is that where they show the cars flipping left/right is that turn 10/11 or 13/14? anyway, i always remember the cars (or maybe just some drivers) REALLY flipping/flying left and right through there like nothing i've ever seen... today it didn't seem that way.

happy for rosberg always liked him, very dutiful and the father connection. happy for mercedes 1st ever win here.

some day... oh man, some day i'll be there :)

Perez was a madman today . . . Really screwed Kimi!! But enjoyed his divebomb tactics.

Mercedes should have finished 1-2. They had the best cars all weekend, and only due to Monaco being Monaco they got shafted.

In probably the only race (maybe one other) that will see a safety car, it comes out at the absolute wrong time for the Mercedes team. RBR was just completing their planned pitstops, and Mercedes was just getting started. Hamilton has to slow down because there's not room in the Monaco pits for both cars (unlike every other track), and loses 2 positions. Then because there's nowhere to pass at Monaco, he can't get around the RBR cars who he's clearly faster than. I'm just glad Rosberg won, I'd have been mad if that brat Vettel had managed to finagle his way to the top.

I love the Monaco track, but I really wish they'd figure out something else there. The only way to pass there anywhere on the track is to make a really risky move, and in some places the track is barely wider than two cars side-by-side.

I definitely know what ur saying, my only response is the only response i think anyone can give it's monaco! To me its like i dont care about which driver wins just watching the best drivers in the world do what they can in that environment is awesome. Sounds odd i know. Although over the years i have wondered how cool of a race it would be if they all drove fiat 500's or something and enacted minimal penalties for contact - maybe the only rule would be u cant disable another car :) but its stll exciting to see what they do with f1 cars that are not ideal for this.

oh, it's incredible to watch how close they get to the barriers every lap. Flying around blind corners at 120 and getting the car 3 inches from the corner, all it takes is entry into the corner just a fraction of a second early or late and they'll hit the walls. It's just a shame there's never any passing there, especially now with KERS and DRS.

Thats why fiat 500's :) haha. That could be like some exhibition race to get ppl into f1. Too bad its already popular! Sometimes it can get so sterile. Not that i want anything dangerous or life threatening. I was a little concerned about tires especially when i saw all that rubber a couple weeks ago from a safety pov. But yeah its definitely only one of the many challenges over the years that push them to be better which is what racing is all about. Overcoming challenges and barriers! And in this race the challenge is the race itself.

I never really liked Perez. He just drives too dangerously. If he were just going too fast and risking himself, that's good racing. Putting others in danger is not good racing. Several times if the person on the defense didn't dodge Perez attacking from behind there would have been accidents. His "divebomb" on Alonso is a good example. Could he have gotten around Alonso without hitting him or the barrier if Alonso hadn't moved? I don't think so. That's not good racing. I'm glad Kimi put him in the barrier. Guy needs to learn that he doesn't get right of way just because he enters a turn way too fast. I also don't like that he uses Jenson as a barrier and seems more than happy to bump into him risking both of their races.

Anybody think Hamilton has a good chance of winning in Canada? Historically he has done very well there, but with the car the way it is now, who knows?

What do you guys think happened since their 3/4 finish in Malaysia? I know at the end of that race we were hearing that they needed to preserve tires, but throughout that race they were doing very well. Then all of the sudden it seemed like their issues got much, much worse. Do you all think that what we saw really was them getting worse, or that other teams have leap-frogged them at making a car better at preserving the rubber?

I'd love to see Hamilton on the top step this weekend. (Probably won't get to see the race Sunday. Don't spoil it!)

I was lucky enough to be there in 2010 when Lewis and Jenson finished 1,2. I will be pulling for him again this weekend. Won't get to watch the race until next week however
:(. I picked up this paper before we left Montreal, i though it was pretty sweet. :D

Attachment 198719

That's awesome!

In the words of Hawk Harrelson . . . . "He Gone!"

Mark Webber To Leave Abusive F1 Relationship For Porsche And Le Mans

http://jalopnik.com/mark-webber-to-l...rsch-595674729

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18s3...g/k-bigpic.jpg

Everybody knew he was gonna leave Red Bull, but I'm surprised that he's leaving Formula 1.

So ... who's gonna be his replacement? There are rumors that it might be Raikkonen.

Kimi and Vettle on the same team.....that could get messy lol :D

Yeah, Raikkonen is not somebody who wants be a 2nd driver on the team ...

I think he is also a driver that doesn't want the "hassle" of the sponsorship responsibilities. He wants to race and doesn't care about the other 'stuff.' Unless the other stuff means partyin'!

Drama for your momma...I can just see the fights now.

I'd pay good money to see Kimi pop Vettel in the face if another Multi 21 thing happens.

"LeavemealoneIknowwhatI'mgoingtodotothelittleassho le!"

Agreed, but Kimi and the German 'Sea Bass' actually get along! (Not to be confused with the French 'Sea Bass.')

What a race today!! Unbelievable doesn't begin to describe all that has transpired!

how is it possible to maintain an exact tire pressure of +2psi much less 1/4 psi which they said is normal for an adjustment? i mean wouldn't the tire pressure vary between high and low speeds due to temp?

Amazing race! Lewis did a great job considering what happened. Can't wait for the german gran prix!

Im a bit pissed they're not showing a replay. I completely forgot the race was on this morning.

"If you get wheelspin keep on the gas" -Red Bull to Webber... More proof they've figured out some form of traction control?

I don't think so. I think it was because he keeps bogging on the starts from letting off too much.

Ecclestone says 2014 Grand Prix of America is dead



The United States of America will not be getting a second Formula One race next year. The troubled Grand Prix of America, which was slated to run on a street circuit on the shores of the Hudson river and in the shadow of the New York City skyline has been shelved, following the failure of the race's organizers to come up with the requisite $100 million in funds demanded by F1's tempestuous maestro, Bernie Ecclestone. The problematic Grand Prix was already pushed back once, from the 2013 season to 2014, and Ecclestone has also torn up at least one contract.

At the helm of the US race is Leo Hindrey, a multi-billionaire and a managing partner at InterMedia Partners, and Chris Pook, an ally of Ecclestone's and the former boss of the CART. The two placed Swiss financier and bank UBS in charge of putting together the $100 million. While UBS has only been on the case since June, according to the CNN report, that's apparently long enough for Ecclestone, who told the news channel, "It's not on the cards for next year. They haven't got any money."

Ecclestone followed up, saying the GPoA "is like Donington all over again," referring to the race at the UK's Donington Park. The UK track was meant to take the British Grand Prix from Silverstone in 2010, but was dropped before a single race could be ran, due to its failure to come up with the $210-million race fee. Despite the lack of funds, the organizers of US race remain confident that they'll still be on the finalized calendar to be released by the FIA at the end of the year.

Ecclestone's decision regarding this second US race is a telling one, though, as CNN points out. Running a race with the NYC skyline has been a dream of the F1 boss for year, and while that dream may be in tatters, there's still a spot on the F1 calendar that will need to be filled. It's unclear what will happen if the US race organizers can come up with the money before the end of the year. Click over to CNN for the detailed rundown of the Grand Prix of American and its rocky history.

In other shocking news, the world is round, the sky is blue, and the oceans contain water.

Who didn't see this falling apart?

That movie will be AWESOME!

Should we start a 2014 F1 Season thread?

Ferrari confirms Raikkonen return
http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsp...ry/124745.html

http://en.espnf1.com/PICTURES/CMS/20400/20499.2.jpg

So . . . how long will Fred stay at the Prancing Horse or will Kimi make it through two seasons?

A little bitter sweet to see Massa leave. He's been a good team mate in that he does exactly what the team asks of him despite them giving him the short end of the stick consistently, but at the same time his driving hasn't recovered to his pre-accident level after several seasons. I'm glad to see two front runners at Ferrari for next season, but I really wish Massa had it in him to win one every once in a while to stay there.

Hope he finds a good seat somewhere else.

If this is true Adrian may have cemented his legacy even further. . . .

http://jalopnik.com/red-bull-may-hav...olo-1442585020

Pretty much. It's becoming pretty obvious that they've got some huge advantage over everyone else. You just can't open up gaps like that normally.

It's going to be interesting to see how long it takes the field to catch up. It's early yet, but this smells like one of those multi-year advantages that leads to a lot of shuffling down the road.

could be, but remember the cars will be a good bit different next year, and since they've gotten wind of this, it may be rather quick that FOM makes their system illegal.

I thought that was only in NASCAR

What illegal method?

So far all you have is an internet rumor. The fact is every single time Vettel wins his car is torn apart and inspected by the FIA. Everything on the car from nose to tail is inspected. IF he has some magic form of traction control it's using a method that is legal and the FIA accepts.

But in reality I suspect the answer is much more simple. The Red Bull is simply far better than people expected and Vettel has been sandbagging most of the year to protect his tires rather than running at full speed and showing the world what the car can really do. That changed in Singapore where he was told to go ahead and use up the tires and go as fast as he could.

I was referring to the statement 'traction control' is outlawed. So regardless of the device or method, if controlling traction is outlawed, wouldn't a work around make it illegal?

Indeed! I thought I noticed something different about the sound.

Technically it would, and the cars are heavily inspected to make sure they don't.

Every time Vettel wins his car is taken apart and inspected. A full traction control system is not something you can hide, especially if you cannot use the engine, ECU, engine mapping, or gearbox to do it. It would require a lot of dedicated hardware and a separate computer which would be impossible to hide.


As for the "difference in sound" the only thing you are hearing is the difference of a single F1 car going through the corner vs the sound of multiple F1 cars going through the corner. You don't hear the low end grunt with multiple cars because other cars are on throttle and louder. You simply can't hear it as well. You're also trying to compare a Renault engine with Ferrari and Mercedes which sound different because the are different.


And here's the kicker. Vettel just qualified second without Kers. If this magical, hidden, super secret traction control system really does use Kers then it wasn't working either. Yet Vettel still qualified second, just .174 slower than Webber who was driving an identical car with a working Kers system.



Kinda hard to prove the Kers-based traction control system if the car can still qualify second without Kers, especially when every other car had a working Kers system.