Twin Turbo

OK, I've cut n' pasted my reply in the "Next Generation" section:

This isn't the first time I've heard this but..................NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

The appeal of the Mustang in Europe is the fact it is so different to the boring, clinical offerings from Europe and Asia. The majority of Mustangs in the UK are V8s. On paper, that makes no sense in a country where fuel now costs £1.20/litre. Yes, a LITRE. Think $9/gallon. But you forget all that the minute the engine is fired up. Many of us run our cars as toys, using them on sunny weekends (we do get a few ). Would I use it every day with a diesel under the hood? NOT A CHANCE

Considering the S197 is not officially sold by Ford in the UK, its been a relative success. OK, we're only talking 1000s rather than tens of 1000s, but most of those bought it because of it's engine, not despite it.

Personally, I don't think the figures will stack up enough for them to sell the car officially. Does that bother me? No, because we already have some excellent specialists that import them and look after them for us.

Don't get me wrong, modern diesels are brilliant, particularly V6 versions as they tend to be a lot smoother. In any other car (Audi/BMW etc) it makes perfect sense. But, a diesel Mustang is just, well, wrong.

I'd imagine IF they sell it, it'll also be RHD. That's just not right, either

rhumb

And a cut and paste from my retort:

I dunno, 270hp, 443 lb/ft and 34 mpg combined all sounds very impressive on their merits alone. I certainly wouldn't want to have a diesel option supplant any of the gas motors, but I do think it would make a very forwards looking and market broadening option and would not dilute the Stang's appeal, some of which hinges upon torquey bent engines.

Shoot fire, we endured the Pleistocene era 4.0 Cologne V6 that was originally made of flint parts and Mastodon bones. If that thing didn't cripple the Mustang's appeal like a Ralph Nader endorsement, then I think the Stang's image is stout enough to handle a diesel in the engine room.

As an example of a compelling TD performance car, there's the BMW 335d, which posts there numbers:Compare that to the 3.7 Stang:Quite close, especially considering the Bimmer is running through a slush box and spots the Stang 40 hp and about 300 lbs (in the Stang's favor). Slash 300 lbs and back it up with a stick box and you'd likely get performance on par with the 3.7 and even better mileage, especially city.

Not to say that any imagined TD motor would supplant any gas motor but, rather, would provide a very interesting alternative for:

• Those who want good performance AND great economy.
• City drivers who'd really benefit from the massive low-end torque.
• Long distance drivers (out West) who'd benefit from a diesel's easy long-range lope and incredible economy.
• Those who want to anticipate the next gas price surge, not react after the fact.

Diesel cars here in the States make up a very small proportion of cars, maybe a percent or two, so at least here, it would also represent a unique approach to performance. It would certainly be a very forward thinking, out-of-the-box move for Ford and that incredible mileage would allow for even more gas swilling big gas motors in the ever-tighter-CAFE future.

Twin Turbo

In defence of the venerable old Cologne V6, at least it could be made to sound good

I dunno, maybe it's because about 2/3 of the cars on the roads of the UKs are diesel........but no amount of improved fuel consumption would make me buy one.

eci

Diesel is available at maybe 1/3rd of the gas stations here. No thanks.

Skotty

That's actually seems high to me. I had to drive a diesel Uhaul long distance once and it was a real pain trying to find stations selling diesel. I could usually stop at truck stops, but that didn't always work either, because must of the truck stop pumps use the bigger rig nozzles, and you just have to hope they have at least 1 pump that uses a standard car nozzle.

Zastava_101

And 10 years from now it would go like this.

m4reapr

about the soot coming from the exhaust, on my car there is absolutely none
the twin tailpipes look as clean or cleaner than any gasoline burning car

Five Oh Brian

I'd be interested in a small displacement diesel V8 for a Mustang option. V8 diesels (like Ford's new 6.7L PowerStroke Diesel V8) actually sound like a gas V8 with an X-pipe. They say that torque wins drag races, so it seems like a natural for a Mustang.

ManEHawke

Diesel FTW!!
The 6.7 sounds very similar to the 6.4, just slightly quieter.

Dixie_Flatline

You guys need to read your history. When the new biturbo diesels started to hit the UK, within a 4-6 years they were something like 60% of all new cars sold: much better gas mileage and they don't act like the old diesels used to.

But that was problematic, because the UK gov't gas tax receipts fell so much they had to initiate new taxes to make up for the shortfall (London's congestion charge was one example). This is why, if you watch how the diesels have been rolling out here, it's easy to spot a trend: states implement different and more stringent pollution req's for diesels and the states didn't all do it at once. So each year the auto manufacturers would have to tweak their vehicles in order to be able to sell them in all states. It would appear the states watched the UK and the hit on gas taxes when suddenly half the country was using something like 35% less gas.

Second of all... the reason we have a horrible public perception of diesel, especially that picture above with the giant smoke plume, is from Chrysler in the 70's. They made a craptacular engine that was just plain awful.

These new biturbos DI diesels are nothing like that.

That said... why not offer a biturbo diesel 6 and a gas v8? If the momentum swings on sales, more cars here will be available with diesels and you'll see far more stations carrying it. Right now it's pretty much just the European manufacturers. That would make for an interesting range, the V8 with more traditionally powerful performance, the 6 with significantly better gas mileage and decent performance.

cdynaco

I test drove a Dodge Cummins years ago and I was amazed how soon you have to shift. The grunt is all in the low end.

I would have liked a VW TDI wagon for my winter car but couldn't swing the funds. And I've read a mixed review of reliability.

I think the one post about refinery production was that so much goes to gasoline in the US that distillates have their bottlenecks of supply also (at least currently) - and therefore price games. When gasoline went to $4+ in 08, diesel went well over $5 here because of "refinery shortages". So a diesel pickup that's getting 20mpg was paying through the nose. (Plus all of my hay grower's equipment is diesel and hay prices DOUBLED to $200/t.) I use heating oil and it was high $4's in Oct 08.

Although the modern diesel is quieter and doesn't smoke very much, they STILL STINK. I have yet to read how European drivers put up with the stench in traffic. The magazines never comment about that. I bet sitting in a traffic jam in Paris in the summer stinks like crazy! Its bad enough in the winter here being stuck behind a State snow plow/cinder truck. Makes your eyes water its so pungent.

Ltngdrvr

A few years ago I had entertained the idea of building a fox Mustang with a 4 cylinder diesel. Thought it would be cool to have a Mustang that had so many aftermarket parts available for it to make it look like a hotrod but had a diesel in it that would get 35-40 MPG. Would be a great commuter car to drive to work and would be very unique. Never had enough time to do it back then though.

MARZ

My 335d doesn't emit any kind of smell whatsoever except when it goes into "active regeneration" mode (where the DPF burns out all of the particulate matter), and it smells like burnt cake, IMO. The exhaust pipes, too, are much cleaner than the Borla tips on my Mustang.

ManEHawke

With the catalyst and DPF Diesels arent too smelly.
Does your BMW use urea exhaust fluid, I know the new 6.7 will use it, and the UK has been using for a while now.

MARZ

Yes sir, it uses "AdBlue," which is the name brand for the urea fluid. I wonder if I can just pee in the urea tank?

cdynaco

Well I haven't crossed paths with any bmer diesels in this little town, but the new 'clean' diesel (low sulfur) pickups and their 5" exhaust are just as fumy as ever.

Five Oh Brian

I can tell you from firsthand experience that the brand new for 2011 6.7L Ford PowerStroke Diesel V8 does not emit a smell or smoke. We had one at our dealership a couple weeks ago, and confined within close quarters, the Ford rep revved it way for a couple minutes to show us there was no smoke, no smell, and much less noise than prior diesels. Very impressive! The 6.7L was tweaked by Ford engineers to a very easy 1000 lb ft torque in prototypes, but they dialed it back down to 720-730 lb ft for production models.

Imagine a downsized 2/3 scale diesel V8 for a future Mustang. 2/3 displacement would be around 4.5L and 2/3 the torque could be in the 500 lb ft range. Couple that with taller gearing so you could "wind out" each gear longer, and you'd have quite an interesting performance option.

laserred38

When rumors of the 4.4 light duty diesel V8 for the F-150 were circulating, I approached Banks Performance and offered my car up for use as a SEMA show car, with that motor swapped in. I envisioned custom Alcoa 19.5" dually wheels, Legend Lime paint, and small smokestacks just barely protruding out of the C-pillars. They did reply, but the engine was canceled. :-/

zektor

Yes, until you hoof it on the freeway and a massive cloud of black smoke comes out of your exhausts as the collected particulates are ejected.

I've seen this many times (living in the UK) on our motorways. That INCLUDES new modern diesel cars. Trust me, that soot has to go somewhere... it cannot magically disappear.

As a general rule, diesel cars DO smell, they are noisy and do emit soot.

A diesel engine should have NO PLACE in a Mustang. We are just getting to the point where the Mustang is a great drivers car. A diesel engine does not make a good drivers car choice of engine.

Our roads in the UK are clogged up with diesel car DROSS. They are mostly boring and unimaginative cars. Even BMW diesel cars are SOOOO Boring. About the only good thing about a diesel is plugging up the freeway for hours on end, with the occasional spirited overtake. Everywhere else they are limited in their capabilities and use.

Don't do it Ford. Keep the Mustang petrol and never let the V8 die!!!! EVER!!!!

charlierickman

hey.. i was just talking to a friend of mine, wondering about diesel performance like if it really is better and i actually checked up on a few sites online.. some feedback would be nice.