Swirl "finger" marks - need advice repairing
 

So, about a couple of weeks ago it was a lazy Sunday afternoon and I thought it would be a good idea to hand wax/buff my car after a good wash. Everything looked great until the next time I washed it and looked at it in the direct sunlight. I screwed up and buffed too hard and now have these "finger" buff/swirl marks on my hood and front 1/4 panels. (see photos)

I really don't care about the spherical swirl marks because I know those are near impossible to prevent as I daily drive this car. It's the finger ones that really bug me. Any advice on what equipment/product I could use to repair? Or am I up the creek and need a new clear coat? Thanks

Swirl "finger" marks - need advice repairing
 

I think your paint can be corrected, but you might need to learn a few new techniques.

Clearing up swirls is all about combining the right polish with the right pad.

There's a ton of information on this, but without starting a dissertation I would suggest reading

http://www.autogeek.net/art-of-detailing-e-book.html

It's $15 but a really good background.

I found this link really helpful about different kinds of pads.

http://www.detailingworld.com/forum/....php?p=3772164

By the way, I am guessing this happened by doing too much surface at once with not enough product on the pad.

Thanks definitely picking up that ebook

Swirl "finger" marks - need advice repairing
 

There's also a dead tree version, if that's your thing. I bought mine on Amazon. The binding is less than stellar.

OP.... those are normal swirls, finger or not. Those are all correctable via a DA/Rotary. All you need is to clay, then buff with your machine of choice using a duo/trio of pads and polishes, then glaze (optional), then seal, then wax. Voila.

Go to Autogeek.net or autopia.org for details on how-to.

And to your comment of swirls being unavoidable? You can severely limit the propagation of them, just by utilizing proper techniques during washing, drying, and waxing.

Hey, thanks Z... Looks like there's some detailing equipment in my future...

Swirl "finger" marks - need advice repairing
 

Agreed with FromZto5. I have DIB (not black, but I kind of feel your pain) and I've gotten pretty good at avoiding swirls.

You can get all the information from that book in the forums that FromZto5 recommended. I ran out of patience and just couldn't read one more review. I had to get to washing and removing some water spots.

But yeah, the "two bucket" method is a life changer for swirls.

Thanks for the info and link guys. I'm glad that this is something that I can fix/maintain for the most part...even those other swirls.

When I bought my black 2012 used with 1200 miles on it, the paint looked like someone had washed it with sandpaper, or a brush. It was covered with scratches. I was not confident at all with my abilities to buff a black car since it the least forgiving color and I had issues when I tried back on my 94 GT. I paid a local detailer $150 to "fix" the paint issue thinking he was going to buff out the car. He did wash the car 3 times with clay bar towels and then hand wax the entire car 2x, but I could still see a lot of the scratches (especially on the top of the hood and fenders). He said the car probably needed to be wet sanded.
I was at WALMART a few days later and went down the automotive aisle. Ended up buying a $20 small orbital buffer and some Turtle Wax Jet Black . I used it on the car with the buffer after a good washing and was very happy with the results. It removed a lot of the scratches so I really have to look hard to see them. Maybe try that product or another "black" wax/polish. Anyone else out there that can recommend a good wax specifically for black cars??

The best money I spent on my black '14 GT 'vert was for a Porter Cable DA buffer. I got it in April of this year.

I was very discouraged by the swirls, scratches, and holograms that stuck out like a sore thumb in direct sunlight, despite it being garage kept and my constant efforts to keep it clean at all times. I was reluctant to buff it myself for fear of damaging a new car, but I couldn't justify the large expense of paying a pro to do it.

I watched some videos on Youtube and on Autogeek, and discovered that my dual action has a clutch mechanism that prevents the motor from spinning if too much pressure is applied, and this prevented burn-through. I'm not sure if all dual action buffers have this feature.

I ordered the Porter Cable and other related supplies, and on the first attempt I achieved that deep and wet looking finish that black paint is known for. I did a swirl and scratch correction, followed by a polish, and then waxing, and I couldn't have been happier. Naturally I made some technique mistakes, but nothing that damaged the car or that couldn't be easily resolved. A friend who is a pro detailer, upon seeing my car, remarked that the results I got were exactly what he tries to achieve on black cars.

I look forward to waxing, and I'm probably due for a polishing soon. But the ugliness of the surface damage has all been removed from the first swirl correction. I'm proud to show my car in direct sunlight now.

Washing it enough times will eventually take out some of those light swirls. They are barely etched into the clear coat (shallow) and with regular washing will help. I've had my car since new and I've taken care with washing and drying so that at 53000 miles I just have random tiny scratches in the clear. I look at my car in the light from all angles to make sure nothing's wrong with it, I'm very VERY particular about the paint. If I ever buff it with a buffer the paint will look factory perfect again. I just gotta get this hood taken care of with the oxidation.

Respectfully, please don't state false claims and mislead the OP and other users.

Washing has ZERO to do with removing swirls. All washing does is remove surface contaminants that are resting (loosely) on top of paint. (More embedded contaminants can only be removed by a clay pad/bar.) Washing (if done improperly) actually adds swirls/scratches to paint. Do you even know what swirls are? Swirls are a collection of light scratches that tend to be viewed as circular when light shines on it. But swirls ARE scratches. You know what scratches are? They are "cuts" in your clearcoat, and vary by depth. The deeper the scratches, the more visible/prominent they are.

Tell me, what does washing do that would somehow, magically, REMOVE swirls? :rolleyes:

The ONLY way to remove swirls is to use an abrasive (in this case a liquid polish and a foam pad) to reduce the height of the surrounding clearcoat area thereby reducing the depth of the scratch.

It's simple physics.

Again, before you go about spreading false claims, I suggest you go study up on detailing. I'm saving you from potentially posting these comments on other sites and being the laughing stock of everyone.

LOL.

Yes, I do know what swirls are and yes, I know what detailing is.
When you wash a car, you are contacting the clear coat and rubbing it and actually slightly scratching it (barely, but it does wear it slightly). I put swirls on my paint from using meguiars ultimate compound by pressing too hard, so when i went to wash my car after that I would push kind of hard with my rag against the swirls I put into the car.

I guess I should've stated, when you wash the car with a rag, not a touchless wash, etc. before you go making false claims about my knowledge on the subject, why don't you ask real questions bro. My car is in **** good shape because I know how to keep it up. I don't need to "detail" the thing super often because I've kept the paint in top notch condition since new. Instead of having a heart attack through a forum about my post, why don't you BREATHE before you post? Might help.

Btw and washing against the grain of those swirl marks took them out completely. When you wash the car with a rag, no matter how much you believe whatever the **** you believe, you are contacting and slightly wearing the clear. There is no way you will "loosely remove contaminants" unless you use a touchless wash and let the car air dry.

After reading about your purchase in another thread I bought the same kit. I haven't used it yet. I think I'm going to practice on my Taurus this weekend and then do my Mustang before winter storage. ****, I can't believe I just said winter storage already.

Thanks for all of the great info... And the not so great! (haha kidding). I've been looking at some orbitals. Any recommended brands? Which are you using, Z, TripleBlack? Thanks

And personally, starting off a post with "respectfully" and asking questions like you did isn't very respectful. Have a good day.

Swirl "finger" marks - need advice repairing
 

Wow. Keep trying to dig yourself out of the hole you put yourself into. Conversely, the more you talk/type the more apparent your "knowledge" of detailing comes to light. You were "washing with a rag" and therefore blah blah blah? Dude seriously, please stop.

And no, I don't have state my credentials in detailing. Those who know me on here know who I am.

As for you, I'm saving you the trouble before other pro detailers chime on here or you go stating these claims on other forum.

As for "loose contaminants" as I stated, again, your knowledge in the detailing world shows through. Light dust on top paint is a contaminant. Washing or using a spray detailer and a MF cloth removes them.

Np. I have 3. I have a PC (used now only for applications of glaze or sealant), Flex, and Griots 3". I use the last 2 quite interchangeably. For my clients that I used to do, the last 2 work the best for fastest correction in smallest amount of time.

Swirl "finger" marks - need advice repairing
 

All you have to do is be careful about what you post. Make sure you have your facts straight. And the statement you made above are akin to stating publicly that the earth is square. So if a physicist or astronomer comes across those statements, you're darn right he is going to speak up.

What I do find disrespectful is how you seem to be OK with making false statements and misleading other people. I don't want other innocent users to now start washing their cars and start wondering why their swirls are getting worse and not better as you claim...

False statements? So washing your car with a mitt doesn't apply a slight amount of abrasion to the clear coat? I think that statement is more a kin to the world being flat, bro.

I'm not, and didn't, tell the guy to go and wash his car a bunch of times in order to get the swirls out. Regular cleaner wax can do that job just in time and with several wax jobs. Regular washing and waxing with cleaner wax can do the same job but an orbital and an actual step by step process will absolutely do it much quicker.

If you're on here saying washing with a mitt doesn't put tiny scratches in the clear itself, then you're on here spreading false info. Like I said, I had swirls that you could only see in certain angles during certain light, and by washing the car for about 6 months once every 2 weeks I don't see them anymore. And that's with using clay, poor boys spray and wipe, pinnacle souveran, and a couple coats of cleaner wax over the course of those 6 months. Again, I didn't tell the guy to wash his car a bunch of times IN ORDER to remove them. I just said be patient they will work themselves out eventually by washing in a roundabout way.

My first session took quite a long time because I went painfully slow for fear of screwing up bad. Plus I was constantly running into the house to watch the PC DVD for each step I encountered.

If you didn't get the PC bundle with the instructional DVD, this video will get you started....there's a ton of Mike Phillips' tips on Youtube specifically for the DA you and I have, and I highly recommend viewing.


The process is surprisingly easy. Just resist the temptation to apply excess pressure and let the machine do the work. Your function is to just guide the buffer.

The biggest mistake I made the first time was lifting the machine while it was still spinning...unless of course you enjoy cleaning your windshield, your clothes, your walls, all of your tools, and your dog.

Let us know how you make out.....post pics.

Good luck.

Will do... I will post before/after pics once I get the equipment and give it a shot. I am very glad to know that this is fixable... Both the hologram finger marks and the swirls. I have a lot to learn, but I enjoy washing/detailing my car. It's sort of like zen therapy. I'm also thinking of getting a Dr. Colorchip kit for the road rash on my front end, but I've read mixed reviews...so not sure.

Zen therapy is a good way to describe our obsession. My neighbor frequently asks me why I spend so much time on my car. I tell him it's because I don't ever want my Mustang to look as bad as his new Lexus.

I recently hurt my back and have been unable to do anything, least of all the car. It's driving me crazy. The dishes can pile up in the sink, dirty underwear can lay on the floor, and coffee stains can remain on my desk. But all I can think about is garage dust on my Mustang.

This is for Zto5 only:

Congrats for being a pro detailer bro. I guess since you are a pro know it all detailer, you can shoot down people you have no idea who they are when they speak their experiences. I had swirls and washing it and waxing it with what I stated completely got rid of them. Fact. You know what, I, unlike you, kept my car up beautifully since it had 3.8 miles on it when I bought it. I don't have a need to be a pro detailer like you're talking yourself up to be. You don't know me, or how I detail/clean my car. So keep your fingers off your keyboard about me and what I know/don't know. Thanks in advance.

I hear you on this, I just traded my 13' SGM GT in on a 2012 Black Roush Stage 3 with 1200 miles on it and due to the nature of my job have been having to travel to Southern Indiana a lot (3000 miles in 2 months so far). I cringe with every bug I see on the bumper and had trouble sleeping when I got a nice dent on the front edge of the hood with a deep gouge from road debris. I found a guy that pushed the dent out for free (he was happy I let him pull the car into his shop), and got the gouge touched up so you can barely see it. I wash my car every day when I get home and end up in a bad mood with all the flaws I see/find in the black paint (not to mention any rock chips I keep finding). When I see an uncovered dump truck on the highway, it takes everything I have to not want to throw a brick out of my car through their windshield. Just once I would love to pull in front of one of those rock dropping trucks with every bump and be able to pop my trunk open and release 100 croquet balls or pinballs in front of them and see how they like it. Black is definitely not a good color for my mental health LOL.

My biggest road debris beef is tractor trailer tire chunks in the road. I hate the recapped tires. I know we have to have trucks to move our goods around, but I wish someone would design a recap that doesn't shred on the highway - are make affordable single use tires.

It looked like he was applying a lot of pressure...the pad looked like it was getting smashed

To be honest, your initial post did not say anything about using a cleaner wax and such for 6 months to remove the swirls in your paint. You stated to wash the car and they will eventually go away.

"Washing it enough times will eventually take out some of those light swirls. They are barely etched into the clear coat (shallow) and with regular washing will help."

FromZto5 is trying to say that statement is false and to not try selling that to people. He's right! Washing the car enough times will not remove even the slightest swirls. For washing the car to remove swirls means that you are adding additional marring to offset the original swirls. If that's the case, you won't have much paint left after a couple years.

Not sure why you're arguing with Z, his statements are dead on and you're off your rocker!! Now, by claiming that you removed yours with cleaner wax, clay and polishes, then that may be the case, but that is not washing alone as you stated originally.

I guess I should have clarified. In that vid he's doing swirl and scratch removal so that requires a bit more push, at least from what I've been successful with. I've found that the polishing/wax/ and buffing steps require much less effort. I've only had to do the swirl & scratch step once, and now it's just maintenance.

There's always some pressure needed regardless of which step you're doing, but leaning on the machine isn't necessary. The clutch mechanism will let you know if you're putting too much weight into it.

I put a black hash mark on the disc, so if I can see it, then I know I'm not doing it right. It takes a little practice but it's much easier and the results are much better than doing it by hand.

Ever see the show Mythbusters? They did an episode on this very subject. Those shredded truck tire treads have enough force when coming off the truck to go through a windshield and sever a human head.

Back to the topic at hand... To Mug: I know Z on here as being a very reliable source of info. He knows quite a lot and has a beautiful car. So, show the guy a little respect... Even if there's a misunderstanding. We're all on the same side here... Mustang family, though sometimes dysfunctional haha

Every time you touch your paint with something during the wash, your scratching the clear, period, end of story no debate. Only way to remove swirls is to
1. Machine polish the clear to remove swirls, then protect it with wax/sealer
2. Wax it over and over to fill the swirls and minor imperfections to hide them with the "wallmart special" brand.


/Junkman2000
The junkman is not the end all of knowledge on how to get and maintain perfect paint but he is 100% correct on all of his statements.

The swirls I had in my paint were sort of like OPs but not as deep I'm assuming. Looking at the paint you can't seem them no matter which way you tilt your head when there is low light. But in sun and at a certain angle, you could see an odd reflection that looked unusual. Washing with a microfiber mitt, I'm assuming, rubbed the clear in such a way to take them out or to make them less noticeable. I'm not saying dude, wash it 100 times and they will be gone, I'm just saying it could take the edge off of the kind like I had. I didn't have the spiderweb-looking swirls, just odd reflections that caught the sun in a funny way that made them look like they were above the paint. They are gone with what I have mentioned I did. The only things I notice are occasional light straight scratches in the clear coat most likely from drying the car but there aren't many. Luckily I've kept my paint up pretty well.

One way I've kept it in good shape, if anyone wants to try it, is by taking it to a touchless car wash at a couple of gas stations by my house that just spray water, wash and some rainbow wax stuff on it and air dry. That's how I get the top level dirt and grime off to lessen the chance of picking up debris that could etch the clear noticeably. I sometimes do the two bucket method, but usually I just spray the mitt at an angle in a certain pattern that gets it pretty clean (the touchless wash really helps in this regard-making the paint virtually already clean with the exception of brake dust, but it's usually insignificant when I check my mitt out after doing the front doors and behind the rear wheel). To do the rear deck lid and tail lights I dip the mitt into the water and just sop the heck out of that area with the mitt drenched in order to take everything off and hopefully have it run off. I then rinse the tag, or dip it in the second bucket with the gritt guard, and get it soapy again and actually wash it after. I use a microfiber weave towel I got off of detailedimage or another website I buy stuff off of to dry it.

My favorite spray to just make the paint slick and clean after a wash or between washes is spray and wipe by poor boys. It smells awesome and is easy to apply.

I usually use one of these to get the really crusted on dirt off. Works really well...and FAST.

http://www.toolstop.co.uk/components...oduct/WB03.jpg

:lol: lol

:popcorn:

Guys… don't bother correcting the individual. Let him rant on. Reminds me of my kids sometimes. They try to argue/weasel/circle themselves out of the statement they've said so many times over, they forget what they even stated. When someone believes the earth is square, in their mind it is. Let them be.

I think most of the folks on here are intelligent enough to know the difference between "washing" and "paint correction". Lol.

CRAZY SMALL WORLD. That is what I use for a back scratcher :banana:

That's Chuck Norris' toothbrush.

Hahahaha

lmao