Don't get me wrong I loved the Capris but do you think the Capri name has a strong enough following? I feel the Cougar name (once a rebodied Mustang,T-Bird, Countour).... Whatever kind will have a more recognizible name? Well we are on the subject what does everyone here think about renaming the Taurus/Sable do these names bring back found memories? I personaly like Montego, Fairlane, Galaxy, Falcon names better than Taurus X, Sable....

I honestly don't know if the Capri would have a strong enough following or not..

But one thing is for certain.. Mercury desperately needs a halo car of it's own, if it stands any chance of surviving.. Otherwise it's going to suffer the very same fate, as the Oldsmobile and Plymouth brand divisions, respectively..

Whether it be the Cougar, Capri or otherwise..The exec's at Ford motor Co. need to come up with a solution, one way or the other..

I kinda have a feeling Ford is gonna simplify it's dealerships like GM. Now most GM dealerships link GMC/Pontiac/, Cadillac/HUMMER together while Chevy/Saturn/Buick are linked. I have a feeling that we are gonna see Lincoln/Mercury always together and Ford with Volvo or Mazda. My local Ford Dealership is now also a Mazda dealership. I say Mercury and Lincoln will be merged into one brand within 10yrs

I agree.. Lincoln/Mercury should be merged together, but with Ford as just Ford/Lincoln..However, you also need to bear in mind, that although Ford are considered, as both alliance partners, and shareholders with Mazda and Volvo.. Neither Mazda or Volvo, are actual Ford divisions.

As both Mazda and Volvo, are still based in Japan, and Sweden respectively..And remain separate companies..

There's even been rumors floating around, that Ford may be looking to sell it's assets of Volvo...Along with Jaguar, Aston-Martin, and Land Rover..:dunno:

I like the idea of a "Ford/Lincoln" dealership. It would probably a premier sales location that would be able to present both brands at their best. Which brings to light the fact that GM also has Saab and a piece of Subaru; to my knowledge neither are linked to a traditional GM brand.

As for the sale of Volvo? If that happens, then you know Ford is in fiscal dire straits...

Thanks matey. As a die-hard (European) Capri fan, I never knew about the Cougar based car!

Cheers

Paul

It all depends upon how different the Cougar is than the Mustang.

If a new Cougar was done like the last US Capri - a Mustang with different fenders, hood, hatch door and some interior trim, it could be profitable at 30,000 / year. Think Mercury Milan vs Ford Fusion. At 30,000 / year a new Cougar could not be any more different from the Mustang than the Milan is from the Fusion.

If a new S197 Cougar had completly different sheet metal, like those computer renderings many of you are drooling over, it would take >60,0000 incremental sales / year to make a new Cougar profitable, assuming the Cougar sold for a few thousand more than a Mustang.
I highly doubt Ford could sell that many Cougars, even in the first year.

Again, a big factor is how many Mustang sales a new Cougar will steal from the Mustang. If a new stole 20,000 Mustang sales, that means Ford would have to sell that many more Cougars to make the whole deal work.

I hate to tell you guys this again, but Ford has done the analysis and came to the same conclusion as I have. In today's market, it's next to impossible to profitably build and sell a new S197 based Cougar.

YEP ... A new Cougar based on the current retro-style Mustang would be sweet indeed. Especially if they exactly duplicated the 1970 front grille.:grin:

What I don't understand is who cares if the Cougar steals Mustang sales? At the end of the day it's still a sale for Ford motor company. Now hear me out a lot of people love Fords but are kinda sick of the Mustang or want something more unique that stands out more. Even if the body is only slightly rebodied i think they could sell the 30,000 units to make it pratical. Look at the Nissan 350Z and the Infinity G35/37s basicaly the same car but both cars have their own followings. Do you think Infinity cares if their competiton is from its sister company Nissan?

I have to agree with you on this one ... GOOD POINTS !!! :nice:

Anybody got the link to the most recent Cougar concept model ... If I remember it was while with a black top ... (???)

But that comparison would be more appropriate if we were talking a Lincoln Mustang clone.

Lincoln is a significant step up from Ford in terms of what is expected in the car as far as price and technology.

Ford and Mercury are very close. In fact several of my friends thought Mercury was Ford's value line, not the slight step up.

My point is that I don't see a problem with the Cougar taking sales from potenial Mustang buyers, its the same company at the end of the day. Also, I feel that people (including myself) would be interested in the Cougar because it would be fresh and unique. I love Mustangs I have owned 4 ( 87' GT, 97' GT, 04' GT & 03 Cobra) but i'd be interested in the purchase of a Cougar for the soul purpose of having something rarer than the Mustang. Even if it tails off after 2 or 3 model years I feel Ford can make some big sales with a renewed interest in a rebadged Mustang. The great thing about the 05' Stang is that it has a crisp, yet straight foward design that would make an s197 Cougar easy to create. With a new front end and tail panel and a coupe roofline insted of the 05' stang fastback-look a cougar will look totaly unique without major changes. The Cougar coupe roofline it also be incoperated into the mustang as a 3rd body style. Mark? Feilds was interviewed back when the 05' first launched and he said that Ford would be able to make updates every couple years as long as the wheelbase and doors stood the same. The Ford Focus has now received its 3rd restlye on the same platform and all three generations look totaly unique. Much like the 98 to 99 changeover for our Mustang

The deal is Ford is spending more to make the same number of sales. different bumpers, body panels, labels, etc all add cost (not value) to a vehicle/platform. Unless the cougar can stand alone as it's own vehicle and support itself as an individual platform should ford exhert the effort.

Chysler seems to be doing ok with the Charger/300 and Nissan with G37/350Z GM's SUVs. Plus Mercury's entire divison is rebadged Fords I don't understand there being no business case for a Cougar yet we have the Sable, Milan, Moutainair, Mariner. Don't these cars "compete" and cost money to develop alongside their Ford counterparts? I do understand your point but if insiders feel that way about the Cougar then why even have the Mercury lineup? Is there one Mercury exclusive platform in the entire lineup?

Ford cares.

It is a big problem. Having 2 similar models greatly increases the overhead cost to make 2 models instead of 1 model. Different tooling has to be purchased, more factory space is required, advertising budgets are larger and so forth.

In any case this thread is pointless, Ford has already made the decision not to make a S197 based Cougar.

Chrysler is in the toilet, I don't have a clue as how they will survive not that Mercedes gave away Chrysler. Yes, if you look at the financial details of the Chrysler "sale" you'll see that Mercedes virtually gave away Chrysler just to get rid of it.

If all you want is a Cougar that is only Mustang with a different grille, tail lights and interior trim, Ford could do it profitably. That's all a Milan is compared to a Fusion.

However most people here seem to be hoping that a Cougar with 100% different sheet metal will magically appear. It ain't gonna happen.

You don't know how right you are. After all the numbers are crunched Mercedes Benz actually shelled out several hundred million to be rid of Chrysler, though they do get to pay this off over the course of a few years. And as you alluded to earlier people don't happily pay you to take a company off their hands. For the bystanders....Chrysler is hurting big time and the fact that their new owners are effectively culling a large portion of the product line shows just how true this is.

Also, while I disagree with some of your number crunching regarding the Cougar the outcome is still the same as you found either way. (I'd bet that the break even point for a Mustang based Cougar that isn't a simple rebadge would be closer to 40k units than 60k units) Ford is in no way guaranteed that the Cougar wouldn't actually cost them money which means that we wont see one anytime soon. If a Mustang based, personal luxury 2+2 is ever to be wrought again you can bet it will wear a Lincoln badge for several reasons.

Nailed it on the head.

Agreed. The only time that it is actually good to have a 'sister' model which steals sales from a platform-mate is when you have to incentivize the latter so heavily to sell them that it would actually be more profitable to develop a second model limiting over-production of the original design. But, this is only true if you have reason to believe that lowering production of the original design would significantly decrease the need to incentivize the model and if the sister design in question could likewise be sold with minimal or no rebates.

Since Mustang isn't having these issues a potentially cannabilistic Cougar is going to be a tough business case to anyone without a serious emotional attachment to the model.

More than one "expert" has speculated that Cerberus's ultimate plan is to completely shut down Chrysler manufacturing in N. American and use the Chrysler distribution and dealer networks to sell Chinese manufacture vehicles.