PonyMuscletang13

This can get fairly confusing to say the least. I kept hearing brackets brackets and then adapters, brackets adapters thinking they are the same brackets adapters part lol.

And then, there was 'this route' or go OEM. I thought (this route = aftermarket = Vorshlag) and (OEM = Ford OEM parts autonation...etc). Hory Shet.

Soooo.
We need the Caliper Brackets then. Why do we need these in the first place is a mystery if Calipers are said to be identical?!

Anyways...
Installing the 'ADD-ON' brackets (adapters, right?) on top of existing brackets just doesn't seem right to me. It kind of sounds like adding spacers for wider wheels. Never liked the idea of 'force' something to get it fit. But that's just me.

How complicated and time consuming is the axle pull?! Is it worth doing just to get a little bigger rotors. I guess for track days, it is?

I really need to get under the car and see for myself. Perhaps a diagram.

Also, the prices from the Vorshlag looks to be pretty similar if not cheaper compared to Autonation etc. Is there an advantage getting them part by part over a 'kit'? With the Vorshlag upgrade kit, we have options for pads too?

EF1

The Vorschlag kit uses the Ford OEM caliper mounting brackets from the 13-14 GT500. The Ford mounting brackets move the caliper out further to fit the larger rotor. This requires pulling the axles to install. You can buy the parts directly from Ford and choose your own pads/rotors. Check out places like Tasca or Levittown Ford online. They have really good prices on factory parts. The install isn't that bad, just basically a typical brake job with the addition of removing the rear diff cover, to get to the axle clips and so you can slide the axles out. There is a link to a good write up on the conversion on this forum is you search for it. It may be in the first couple pages of this thread.

There are a few different big brake kits (Steeda, Wilwood, etc) out there using an adaptor bracket between the stock mustang caliper mounting bracket and the caliper to allow similar clearance for larger rotors. These kits do not require pulling the axles to install. They are really easy to install, but like I said in a previous post, you are stuck with their rotors as they are usually a slightly different size than the stock GT500 rotors. You also are introducing another metal between the mounts and the calipers (usually aluminum). Several guys on here are using the adaptor brackets on cars that are tracked without issue, so durability isn't an issue. Like you I don't like the idea of using an add on bracket between the calipers and mounts.

Hope this helps clear some things up.

EF1

The upgrade guide was on this forum in a different rear brake upgrade thread. Here is the link:
https://themustangsource.com/forums/...pgrade-537228/

Bert

It really isn't that complicated. Simple solution:
1) buy any Shelby GT500 2013+ compatible rear rotors, 13.8" diameter (I am not positive of the year but pretty sure 2013+ is when they went to these larger diameter rotors)
2) buy the "brackets" aka "adapters" from the guy on E-Bay or SVT forum for about $110 including bolts
3) remove old calipers and rotors; install new brackets/adapters using supplied bolts; install new rotors; install old calipers . . . done

Also may need to retract the rear pistons as with any brake job (because the new rotors likely are thicker than the old ones)

shaneyusa

The brackets are required to move your existing calipers further away from the center of the axle. With this upgrade you are not getting any more braking surface area. It uses the same pad size as any S197 Mustang. The GT500/Boss/Track Pack/Brembo cars use a different pad material, but basically the same shape and size pad as the most basic of S197 Mustang.

With this change it requires moving the calipers/pads out further on the rotor, further away from center of the bigger diameter rotor. The main goal of this upgrade is getting better cooling of the existing braking system swapping the rotor from the stock 11.8" to the GT500 13.8". A side benefit of this results in better looking rear rotor especially for cars with large rims.

Like EF1 says the Vorshlag package is just a bundle of OEM parts except with Vorshlag's choice of racing pads rather than OEM GT500 pads that I chose. They also offer upgrades of the brake lines to the stainless steel braided lines.

In Vorshlag kit they also do not replace any of the mounting hardware. The kit is only caliper mounting adapters, rotors, and pads.

I chose to replace everything that was removed to handle the bigger rotors. All the nuts and bolts. The way I decided to go allowed me to get all the parts for about the same price as the Vorshlag package. If I had just bought the basics it would have been less than the Vorshlag package. It is all a personal preference. It is your car so you get to do it your way, whatever make sense to you.

Sorry for the confusion. But it really is not that complicated. Thanks EF1 and Bert!

PonyMuscletang13

Thank you all for kind advise. Will follow thread closely, can't wait to hear good results.

I plan on re-doing the suspension setup soon, might be a good idea to do the brakes at the same time when everything comes off. All four corners - replace pads on front Brembo and swap in the back.

Some questions about the pad selection. When we say brake job, does it usually mean replacing the pads? If so, Shouldn't we get something other than OEM and do an 'upgrade'?

What about these G-Loc pads listed on Vorshlag. I've never heard of the brand but they must perform better than OEM pads. So why get stock gt500 pads. I picked the R6 one?

dmichaels

Another option, albeit expensive, is going to 2-piece rotors. I did this over the winter and so far after 2 track days I'm highly impressed. Thermal gun shows the rears are cooler than the fronts after a session recently (350F ring temp and ~220 hat temp) compared with 390F ring temp on the fronts and ~250 hat temps. Plus they are lighter than OEM by a couple pounds.

http://www.girodisc.com/Girodisc-Rea...ng_p_6627.html

I'm not sure how durability is yet since I've only put on 2 track days, but I'll get to really test them at Watkins Glen in a week during a 2 day event.

Regarding pad choice, there are many options to choose from all depending on what you are doing with the car. I did not read this whole thread, but I'm happy to give some advice based on my experiences with street and track time. Feel free to PM or post

EF1

There are plenty of pads available that stop better than the stock Brembo pads and dust less. G-Loc is a relatively new company started by a couple of guys that left CarboTech. There pad compounds match those offered by CarboTech. I haven't used the yet, but plan on giving them a try when my Hawks need replacing. Several guys on this forum have had good luck with CarboTechs. I believe they are running the R10's on the front with R8's on the back for track use.

dmichaels

Carbotechs always had bad pad deposits for me, resulting in brake judder. But others have had great experiences.

I'm a huge fan of the Raybestos ST43's and ST47's now. Definitely track pads, but they've been great

Pagid makes excellent pads as well but they are pricey

Mr. V

I believe you also used the brackets on eBay to upgrade your rears to gt500 rotors. How are they holding up? I keep going back and forth on how I want to do the gt500 rotors. The brackets are just so convenient

PonyMuscletang13

To clarify application, I'd say mine is a wannabe track car daily driver and its main purpose is street driving but wants track-capable increased stopping power over stock and yet gentle on rotors with no squeal noise.

dmichaels

Correct, I used them for 2 seasons and about 2500 track miles. They held up great and the larger rotors lasted a long time as they seemed to run a bit cooler. As noted above, I switched back to the 11.8's this season but went with floating 2-piece ones front and rear. So far I'm very happy with this new setup as well

I have the aluminum brackets in the garage and can post a couple pics of what they look like after significant track time

Bert

There are lots of pads out there with varying levels of bite, dust, noise . . . and I don't have direct experience with most of them . . . . but I have used "Stop Tech Street/Performance pads" and they seem to fit the bill for what you are looking for. I even used them on the road track and they worked fine for me. The only downside is they are fairly dusty; you do need to wash the wheels fairly often to keep them clean.

To go truly high end "track capable" you will end up with noise on the street. Right now I am using Carbotech XP10 front and XP8 rear for the track; and they work fine on the street for stopping the car (maybe a little aggressive bite) but the noise is unbearable. So I switch to Carbotech's street pads in the front for the street and leave the XP8 rears in all the time (because the Brembo fronts are easy to swap but the rears are a pain). The XP8 rears do squeal a little but it is bearable.

PonyMuscletang13

Thank you for such a kind advise John! I really appreciate it.

My initial plan towards the brakes was to just get the OEM replacement pads (at discounted price from autonation...etc) with possible gt500 rear swap like everyone else here in this thread. The rear swap in particular seems the best way to upgrade in both the looks and performance wise cost-effectively for S197 owners.

I used to go cruise on weekends with this local driving group seeking out the best Canyon 'Roads to Awe'. We'd gather up super early and go for a drive. The group had wide variety of cars. I'd see lots of BMW M3's, Nissan GT-R, stage3 Volkswagen Golf (surprisingly quicker than me), sometimes exotics like Ferrari and Audi R8.

The one thing I noticed was that they had nicer brakes. Either from factory or modified, they were a lot nicer. Big rotors - slotted n drilled with colorful Calipers and all. Those must've been Race-ready.

What I'm trying to point out is that they were quiet. None of them squealed, all I remember hearing was the eargasmic loud exhaust notes.

My curiosity is how come and if they were all using 'street pads'. Or was it simply just different setup?

PonyMuscletang13

The rears... don't require axle pull just to replace the pads now, or do they...?? I'm getting nervous.

SpectreH

Pads only do not require an axle pull.

Bert

You're welcome. I think those cars had the nice big rotors and calipers like you say, but were using street pads. Even spirited "canyon carving" on the street does not come close to the kind of brake abuse you will see on a track . . . unless the canyon carvers are truly insane, and likely headed for jail soon. Good street pads will hold up to heavy street use pretty well.

Generally there are two main issues with true "track pads" on the street
1) They don't work well when cold; they need some heat in them to bite well . . . which is a problem on the street when you need to stop just once, in a hurry. I have found that the Carbotech pads work fine when cold, but apparently this is not typical of track pads.
2) They are noisy, especially under light braking as is common on the street. I got really tired of everyone in the gas station looking at my car because of the brake noise, and having to explain "track pads" which nobody understands.
Plus they tend to be very dusty, and some are agressive on the rotors (carbotechs are rotor friendly, again your mileage may vary)

I think the Stop Tech Street Performance pads would fill the need pretty nicely. Like I said I have used them on the road track and at my level they held up fine.

The difficulty with the rear pads change is:
1) you have to remove the caliper to get to the pads . . . not a big deal, but the Brembos are easier because the pads just slide out
2) you have to retract the caliper pistons due to the parking brake self-adjusting feature; this requires a special tool and a few minutes of cranking. Do yourself a favor and get the good tool; they are available on line for about $50; don't try the stupid cheap cube tool, they do not work

Rog13GTCS

I have a set of the rear caliper adapter brackets that I'm planning to install in June, does anyone have the torque specs for these?

The rotors I was going to try are these Stop Techs. Does anyone have any experience with them?

Bert

I used loctite and torqued them to "nice-and-tight"

I guess an actual torque value would be better, LOL

dmichaels

Same for me, if you're using the aluminum ones, they are aftermarket and you won't get a torque value. Could estimate based on bolt size. I probably did about 100ft-lb