Diagnosed Transmission Whine Without Disassembling
 

I took my car in because the transmission started whining in gears 1-4 under acceleration. The car was 4 days old with 380 miles on it.

At first the service manager brushed me off saying "Ford doesn't like to fix things that aren't actually broken unless they make noise for 1,000 miles". And I asked if I could at least have the tech drive my car. The tech actually asked me to drive and show him what it was doing. He said "WOW..." like three times on your two minute test drive and even said "thats so annoying". When we got back he asked the service manager to send in a call to the Ford hotline (some kind of email thing it wasn't a phone call). She said she would call back and let me know what Ford wanted to do.

After hearing all the "could not reproduce problem" and "its normal" comments people had gotten from dealers on here, I wasn't too optimistic.

I got a call a few days later that Ford wanted them to put some kinda of "chassis scopes" on the car to determine if the noise was coming from the trans or somewhere else and that if it was coming from the transmission they would have to "take it apart".

So today I dropped the car off and called at lunch for an update, I was told that they ordered a bearing for my transmission and it would be here tomorrow. I asked how they diagnosed a bad bearing and they guy couldn't tell me, so I figured I'd call after work and try to get the service manager.

I talked to the service manager in the afternoon who told me that the noise was definitely coming from the transmission, and they had told Ford. She said Ford told them which bearing was bad, and to take the transmission apart tomorrow and replace it when the bearing comes in. She said it was the #9 bearing (I'm not familiar enough with an MT82 to even know which one that is).

This kind of story is contrary to what I have read on the internet so far, and I wanted to share it. Ford acknowledged my whine was not normal, made sure it was the gear box, and even diagnosed the bad part without the dealer even working on my car. I am very curious to see if replacing this bearing fixes the whining noise. If it does this sounds more like a bad run of bearings and Ford is well aware of whats going on, but maybe they don't have traceability as to what bearings made it into what transmissions/cars?

Anyway I will update you guys tomorrow and hopefully my car is fixed and Ford is one step closer to a TSB for removing gear whine and maybe even the transmissions that have shifting problems.

Hope that fixes the whine, not all dealers are bad.

keep us posted!

It sounds to me like you have a good techs at your dealership.:nice:

I called at lunch and the bearing had just got in. She said as soon as he finished the car on his rack mine was going on. She said it still might be this afternoon, but they want to "be very thorough when going through the transmission" to make sure everything else is ok.

I'll update when theres something new.

The whining is the MT82 for SURE. I swapped for a TR6060 and no more whine.
(loved the sound of the whine though!)

:pics:

My guess is that they use some form of audio spectrum analysis being that the engine and gears all operate within audable range based on engine RPM.

Every rotating component will have its own frequency.

Well whatever car was on the rack too longer than expected. My car should get started first thing in the morning and be dont "not too late in the day".

We will see....

I am curious about this as well. I have had the whine on my car for some time now so i took it into the dealer and they said the same thing. "Its not normal but the higher ups at Ford said its not bad enough to fix it yet. It needs to get worse before we can make it better."
All I know is that the noise is very annoying especially when i am trying to enjoy some good music and the sound is overpowering it. I really want to get this fixed so i figured i will wait a 1,000 miles and take it back in.

LMAO What do you want pictures of?

:popcorn:

lol What are you waiting on?

Just to find out what happens. I'll forget about the thread if I don't subscribe to it. I'm feeble minded. :o

There has been a production change on the MT-82. Among the new components are.... the shaft bearings. EDIT: On fordparts.com, the bearings were shown to be different last week, but it's not clear now. There are three different output shaft bearings listed. I believe these were listed with production dates previously, and that they were changed on the 25th.
The new trannies starting going in on July 25th.

New parts:
5th gear - countershaft
6th gear - countershaft
6th gear - output shaft

The other half of 5th gear is attached to the input shaft. That part is not listed on fordparts.com at the moment.

which july 25th? 2010 or 2011

subing

Subscribed

2011

interesting maybe they think this is the cause of the problem

Yeah that's crazy because my car was built on 7/19 so it would have the old bearing.

I called at lunch (noon) and all I got was "the service lines are busy", I called back at 2:30 and was told the transmission was "just being lowered down out now". (Kinda BS since the car was supposed to be started Tuesday since I took it in Monday morning and the bearing was there Tuesday at noon)

I called back at 5 and was told the trans was on the way back in, and that it should be done tomorrow morning. I asked what parts were bad/replaced and the guy I talked to didn't know, but said he would find out. The lady I had been working with was off today so hopefully she is there tomorrow, she seemed to be more on top of things.

More updates to come.

BTW I did take a video of my car making the whining noise but my iPhone did an amazing job of NOT picking it up. I also took a video of the shifter handle's excessive vibration in 4th gear. I am hoping that vibration was a symptom of the bad bearing as well.

Called at lunch today and was informed that the transmission is still not reassembled. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

She said the guy who told me the trans was on the way back in yesterday was mistaken.

She also said that the bearing installation requires a "special tool", and they didn't want to try and rig something or do it wrong (probably not a bad thing). The bearing is most of the way in but not all the way, they sent a driver to get the tool and then they can complete the assembly and put it back in the car. She is "hopefull for late today".

That one bearing is all that was bad.

Back to waiting...

I see that you have a shifter and suspension mods...guess they didn't say anything about it?

The car made the noise since the 4th day I had it, when I took it in the first time for them to hear it there were ZERO mods of any kind.

My internet was out at home so I couldn't give the crappy update from yesterday afternoon.

They had someone drive over 2 hours each way to get the tool, and it was the wrong one. :banghead: So they had to order it from Ford and have it shipped next day air. Hopefully it shows up early enough today for him to get the bearing in and get the car back together. I was told the same thing I have been hearing since Monday...."should be tomorrow"

Again...back to waiting

I never get my hopes up when taking my car to the dealer as far as when they say it'll be done. Because it's NEVER done when they say it'll be done.

Yeah I was really thinking 2 or 3 days max for this. Shame on me lol.

I just called and the tool came in this morning, and he is working on it now. I think by lunch I'll have a good idea if it'll be done today.

For real! I was like "you had a guy drive 4 hours and you didn't even make sure it was the tool you needed?"

Supposedly he worked on the trans from 10:30am yesterday and still wasn't finished at 4:45 PM when I called. Could it really take that long to replace one bearing in an MT82?

Anyway she said that he was "putting the rear cover back on the trans now", I should have asked for clarification but I think she meant that was the last or one of the last pieces to go on.

Once again I was promised the car would be done tomorrow (Saturday).

As usual, back to waiting...

Just be patient man. I'm sure it's probably one of the first ones that he has built. Those things are still fairly new and maybe he built one in a ford training class or something. Nobody has built a large number of those yet. It took me two days to build my T56 and have built at least 6 other ones before that. They are all primarily the same concept but all have their own differences on teardown/rebuild and require different tools. Be patient and dont rush them.

You bring up a good point, and I have been told several times that nobody there (at this dealer) has worked on one of these transmissions before. Which makes me a little nervous that it will be done right, and is no doubt adding to the time.

I was told to be patient when I ordered my car, which I wasn't, but people at least had a point. (you want one today buy one off a lot, you wanna order one then you can wait)

3 day old car with 380 miles on it and it starts making noises, I have to convince them to even work on it, and its at the dealer for a week because they wasted 3 days working on other people's cars and not having the right tools ready? No I don't think thats grounds for patience. Any special tools required should have been ordered when the parts were ordered, not 4 days later.

Nah man. You gotta understand how dealerships work. Special tools are sent to the dealers whether you order them or not. Ford wasn't planning on building them yet so all dealers may have not received the tools yet. Don't be too nervous about the tech. Although he may have never built that model, I'm sure he knows what he is looking at. They are all essentially the same inside. Just put together a little different. I've never built one but I'm sure I can. I was bit in the A$$ on my first T56 build and had to tear it down right after my test drive. It happens. But that's how the techs learn. I'm sure you must have a rental so don't sweat it.

I can assure you they ordered this tool AFTER they realized the bearing was impossible to install without it. (and also after they wasted a half a day sending a driver to get the wrong tool) And whether or not Ford plans to send the tool(s) to all dealers or not is irrelevant, someone should have read through the work instructions and seen what all was needed. Heck even if you buy a cheap chinese end table from walmart for 20 bucks the instructions tell you what all tools you will need (and usually come with some of them!!!).

I also agree while it may be new/different, its still a transmission. Made up of shafts, bearings, gears, etc. and it's a different design but someone who has rebuilt other transmissions and has instructions (which I'd hope Ford provides) could figure this one out.

Oh and a rental would have been nice, but no I was not provided one. Thanks for assuming I was though. :poke::jester:

Is it a warranty claim? I would have made them give me a rental. Paying for a car you can't drive. Down for more than one day should qualify for a rental. That's BS.

Yes it's a warranty claim, it starting whining after 3 freaking days! And thanks for joining my side lol!!!! Paying for a car I can't drive IS BS.

This dealer doesn't give rentals to anyone, they have a "shuttle" that will drop you off at home and pick you up when your car is done. That system kinda falls short when your car is in for a week. :banghead:

Now I found out last night that the owner of the dealership's 18 year old son has been working on my car. He was telling a friend of mine how he prepped the car for the trans to come out. He is not a Ford tech, not in any way qualified to be performing warranty (or any) work. I can't wait till this lady returns my phone call.

Damm man. I just read through fords warranty policy and yep, they do not cover rentals, lost wages, inconvenience. That sucks big ones. When I was with GM, everyone was getting rentals. People would wait till Friday to bring their car in so they could have a rental for the weekend to go out of town.

Is the kid building your trans? Or just helping pull it? Some of those shops have helpers that work with the techs. Either way, don't give them too much hell, you never know when you will need them again. Always try and keep a good relationship with your service department. If you are an a--hole on a regular basis, you are gonna catch hell with them every time you show up. Trust me on that. Just try and be cool.

No he just pulled the exhaust and drive shaft off and stuff, and that I'm not really mad about. I wouldn't really be happy if he was putting things together, or at the very least had a tech watching him.

I didn't mean to make it sound like I was gonna freak on the lady, which is also why I have sounded displeased but not like a total jerk on the phone. This dealer is pretty cool, and if I have any other problems I will still take my car there. They will turn un-cool pretty fast if I'm always acting like an (explative).

Has Deysha, Ford Customer Service, got involved? She probably can help you on this.

As for your rental, or lack of, that is total BS. I'm dropping my car off Monday for warranty work, I made sure I'm getting a car. This is the 3rd time, all for little non-related things, but I've got one each time.

I hope it gets resolved for you. There's nothing like having a new car and then bringing back to the dealer for days on end. I feel your pain and I'll be in that same situation Monday morning.

I did notify Deysha and asked if there was anything else I should be doing, this was when the dealer put the initial call into the hotline.

She said she escalated it and that a customer service person would call me the next day. I never heard from anyone.

The next day was the day that the dealer called me and said Ford authorized the work, so maybe thats what she meant.

My 10 Chrysler had a steering issue. They needed an adapter to check the fluid pressure. I kept getting jerked for 4 weeks that the adapter hadn't arrived yet - and here I bought a new car and afraid to drive it!! So I wrote the CEO - man you should have seen how fast I was getting phone calls! lol They had the part in a few days, gave me a rental to drive, and finally got it fixed right (replaced the rack).

I chose the Ford Dealer that is 1 1/2 hrs from me. They only do the shuttle thing too. Thankfully I haven't had any issues with my Bullitt.

I am glad bell ford is within 10 miles of me. They do the shuttle, loaner cars and rentals(if its warranty work).

So the trans was back together and the car was done Saturday around noon.

It still whines. Not quite as bad as before but def still there.

They have ordered a new transmission, she said it would take some time because they will have to pull one off the assembly line. In the mean time I can drive my car so that's good.

I will update after the trans comes in.

I guess the repair didn't take. So Ford is still guessing. Maybe if the trans was built in the US, they could just go to the route of the problem. :stirpot:
Sorry they didn't get it man.

Keep the faith. They are working with you, and it appears you will be getting the new updated transmission, since it is coming off the line, someone mentioned was going into the '12 models now.

Yeah I am pleased so far. They are willing to replace the entire transmission. I can't think of anything more they could really do.

I didnt hear about an "updated" one though. What's different?

Thanks, Hytek!:D
I read over your case, blackgt87. The rep did speak to your dealer and arranged this with them and your Service Advisor stated she will call you. :)

Deysha

There is a puddle of oil under my car, def not coming from the engine. I can only imagine the tech put something together wrong when he reassembled the transmission.

The dealer called just now and said the new transmission is on a truck and the tracking says delivery today. She made me an appointment for first thing Monday morning to swap the trans. She is pretty confident (and actually so am I) that it will be done Monday afternoon. The long parts of the last repair were them actually starting to work on it, waiting for parts and tools to be ordered, and the actual reassembly of the transmission.

Hopefully they start on it early in the day and I won't even miss any time with my car if I get it after work.

She confirmed the bearing has been revised and that my transmission will have the new one.

Any idea of the build date when Ford started installing the revised transmission?

I read on another forum they made the changes as of 7/25. Unfortunately I can't find that thread right now.

July 25th, 2011

Thanks. I missed it by about 70 days. But so far no problems. Or maybe I am old enough that my hearing is too far gone to hear the whine. (Probably same reason I dont hear the Mrs.)

it's called selective hearing.. all men have it.. :lol:

i never hear my girlfriend even when she is sitting next to me..

you would think with all this noise with transmission issues if an updated unit was released there would be a bit more fanfare

They don't want a flood of people until they get it tested.....?

Or they don't want a flood of peole, period. Maybe they are afraid people with perfectly fine transmissions (if there really are any of those left) will bring them in just because they heard theres a revision.

I think you are right. Revising some parts are some what of an admission of a quality/design flaw and they sure as heck are not going to admit it at this point. Pretty sad if you ask me.

I do hope you get everything fixed so please keep us posted.

The other equally valid reason for a revision is to reduce part costs. Not saying that's what's happening here.

Let's hope they haven't decided they can't fix it and nothing will save the reputation THEREFORE we might as well put even crappier parts in from now on to save a few bucks. :stirpot:

:blah:

Just wanted to give an update, I dropped the car off this morning at 7:50 and they said they would get started on it first thing. I am hopefull it's done today, it's a miracle I have lasted this long without calling to check lol. I am just trying to at least appear patient.

Good or bad I will update this afternoon.

Look forward to the update

Sorry for the delay...

Got the car back this afternoon, brand new transmission installed. No whines and man does this thing shift nice.

There is some whooshy sort of "gears and synchros doing their thing" kinda noise, but that noise didn't show up until after the addition of the steeda shifter. Which was identical from the last trans to this one, so I can say for sure that it is additional NVH from the shifter, I still have the stock bracket (the steeda bracket will be here this week I hope) so I will have to update again after I install the bracket.

I only drove the car about 15 minutes home, so I have yet to see if that gummy shifter feeling after a long drive is still there. I did some more research and I am FOR SURE putting the Amsoil MTG in, I will do that and the bracket at the same time. I am confident that the noise I am hearing will be gone or almost gone with the new fluid and bracket. When I turn or put my hand on the shifter the whoosh noise will completely go away, but its sorta random. I think the shifter is moving and thats where some of the NVH is coming from.

I also got conformation that this transmission has QDC, I think that super thin fluid is probably where the rest of the NVH is coming from.

So all in all I am very happy, no whining and the trans shifts even better than the last one, which was in my opinion stellar. I can't wait to feel it with better fluid, and the new bracket. I will update after at least 400 miles (how long it took the first transmission to whine), and let everyone know if it ever does start whining again.

Glad they got it together for you. Hopefully the bugs are worked out and you don't have to deal with it anymore and can enjoy the car.

Exactly.

I also wanted to comment that the vibration in 4th gear at lower speeds is gone. The shifter handle used to vibrate a lot under load in 4th gear only at lower speeds ~40mph, it wasn't as bad at higher speeds. Although I can't remember if it did that or not after the new bearing went in.

did you get any updated part numbers, is the tranny really a newer design?

The only thing different that I know of is the bearing for the output shaft, someone had posted in another thread that as of build date 7/25/11 that bearing is different. (my build date was 7/19 lol) I don't have the part numbers though. That is what they replaced in the trans first to see if the whining would stop, it got better but did not go away.

Steeda shifter bracket should be here today, hopefully that and the amsoil make this thing buttery smoove.

UPDATE:

I put the steeda shifter bracket on (using the lower durometer red bushing) and swapped the trans fluid for Amsoil MTG (fluid that Amosoil recommends for the MT82).

I put the bushing on first, and honestly didn't notice a whole lot of change. The trasmission was a little easier to shift, the best way I could describe it was the transmission felt "cleaner", like some junk had been removed from the other end of the shifter handle or something. I wouldn't say night and day difference though.

The transmission fluid however IS HUGE. I would recommend this to anyone, it made a huge difference that I could tell before I even got to the end of my street. My transmission never had shifting problems, just the whine. I always thought it shifted smooth and nicer than any car I'd ever driven. It's 10 times nicer than that now. I think it is a combination of shifter, bracket, and fluid.

I had heard some people say that they wouldn't change the fluid unless something was wrong, those people have not driven my car. It is by FAR the best 45 bucks I have spent.