Brembos vs non
6/27/11, 09:25 PM
#22
Bullitt Member
Originally Posted by TheReaper
reprogrammed TCS management....... Can you please explain this.
6/27/11, 09:38 PM
#23
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I've only driven 3 mustangs my 84 20th anniversary, 01 GT, and a friends 07 GT. Are the 2012s pretty much the same handling and braking as what the 07 was? I've been on Fords website and started typing in every zip code within 6 or so hours away and I just can't find one exactly how I want it anywhere.
6/27/11, 10:05 PM
#24
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A lot of this "track ready blahhhhhhhh..." is due to the tires... not all of it, but a healthy portion.
The special ESC tuning is made for all scenarios. Which probably- tho there's no word on it... lets the car run a little looser due to it's wider tires over non BBP. But with that, ESC does not improve a vehicle's cornering performance, it rather helps minimize the loss of control.
Straight outta Ford:
So like I said, due to having wider tires- you can loosen that a step over the narrower tires of non BBP.
In the same instance 2010 Track Pack cars have the same tires, rear LCAs, and swaybars as 2011 Brembo cars. No info on springs... but 2010 Track Pack details were...
19-inch Pirelli P Zero P255/40ZR-19
"modified underpinnings"
front and rear stabilizer bars
roll gradient reduced by 13 percent
damping increased by 23 percent in front and 8 percent in the rear
Performance Friction brake pads
Use the search feature and work the google machine. There's Shi
tons of info/opinions/numbers. 
The special ESC tuning is made for all scenarios. Which probably- tho there's no word on it... lets the car run a little looser due to it's wider tires over non BBP. But with that, ESC does not improve a vehicle's cornering performance, it rather helps minimize the loss of control.
Straight outta Ford:
Advance Trac with ESC
AdvanceTrac® Electronic Stability Control (ESC), standard on Mustang, gives you more confidence and control behind the wheel under slippery road conditions. AdvanceTrac uses sensors to detect and measure yaw, or side-to-side skidding conditions, by monitoring the vehicle’s speed, throttle position and steering wheel angle. When AdvanceTrac senses wheel slippage, it reduces engine torque and applies the brakes as needed. In the 2011 Mustang GT Premium, AdvanceTrac® ESC can be placed in ‘on,’ ‘off’ or Sport mode position – allowing you to push it more while still retaining control. This feature provides unique calibration for a spirited driving experience.?
AdvanceTrac® Electronic Stability Control (ESC), standard on Mustang, gives you more confidence and control behind the wheel under slippery road conditions. AdvanceTrac uses sensors to detect and measure yaw, or side-to-side skidding conditions, by monitoring the vehicle’s speed, throttle position and steering wheel angle. When AdvanceTrac senses wheel slippage, it reduces engine torque and applies the brakes as needed. In the 2011 Mustang GT Premium, AdvanceTrac® ESC can be placed in ‘on,’ ‘off’ or Sport mode position – allowing you to push it more while still retaining control. This feature provides unique calibration for a spirited driving experience.?
In the same instance 2010 Track Pack cars have the same tires, rear LCAs, and swaybars as 2011 Brembo cars. No info on springs... but 2010 Track Pack details were...
19-inch Pirelli P Zero P255/40ZR-19
"modified underpinnings"
front and rear stabilizer bars
roll gradient reduced by 13 percent
damping increased by 23 percent in front and 8 percent in the rear
Performance Friction brake pads
Use the search feature and work the google machine. There's Shi
tons of info/opinions/numbers.
6/27/11, 11:12 PM
#26
6/28/11, 12:31 AM
#27
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Why not just order what you want? I ordered grabber blue with pretty much the same options (I got the BBP) and it took about 6 weeks for it to arrive.
I didn't get to drive a car with the BBP beforehand and it would have been nice. The sportier suspension that comes with the BBP is pretty cheap and make for very bouncy ride. If it wasn't a fixable thing it was bad enough I wouldn't have wanted the car at all. I replaced the suspension with Ford Performance Parts and it's pretty much solved the issue. It drives a little stiffer but I don't get sick after 30 minutes of driving anymore.
In my opinion the only reason you really need the BBP is if you intend to take it to a track. Otherwise, you're not going to overheat the brakes and likely won't need to stop THAT fast in a DD. The difference appears to be 105 ft with BBP vs. 117 ft without. They're probably closer together than 12 ft though.
So yeah in my opinion it's only worth it if you are going to take it to a track. If you are, be prepared to spend another $1500 or so if you end up hating the feel of the suspension as much as I did. But if you are going to take it a track definitely get the BBP.
I didn't get to drive a car with the BBP beforehand and it would have been nice. The sportier suspension that comes with the BBP is pretty cheap and make for very bouncy ride. If it wasn't a fixable thing it was bad enough I wouldn't have wanted the car at all. I replaced the suspension with Ford Performance Parts and it's pretty much solved the issue. It drives a little stiffer but I don't get sick after 30 minutes of driving anymore.
In my opinion the only reason you really need the BBP is if you intend to take it to a track. Otherwise, you're not going to overheat the brakes and likely won't need to stop THAT fast in a DD. The difference appears to be 105 ft with BBP vs. 117 ft without. They're probably closer together than 12 ft though.
So yeah in my opinion it's only worth it if you are going to take it to a track. If you are, be prepared to spend another $1500 or so if you end up hating the feel of the suspension as much as I did. But if you are going to take it a track definitely get the BBP.
6/28/11, 12:35 AM
#28
... The difference appears to be 105 ft with BBP vs. 117 ft without. They're probably closer together than 12 ft though.
.
.
6/28/11, 01:40 AM
#29
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I want a grabber blue, black interior, 6 speed, 373, brembo car. I've only found 1 other blue one and it was about 6 or so hours away and it didn't have 373s. That is me googling the zip codes for major cities near where I live and punching them in on Fords website. Can you still order them?
6/28/11, 04:35 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by 5 DOT 0
+1. You'll also get a lot of the cost back at resale time. There are affordable tires to replace the Pirelli's. I really like the BBP wheels but it's too bad you can't get a set of 10's for the rear.
6/28/11, 06:15 AM
#31
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Another point that I'm not sure if I saw mentioned or not is the spare tire or rather lack of spare tire with the brembo package. I've had cars with the tire inflation system in the past and I hated knowing that if I was on a road trip and blew my tire, then I was screwed! I've never experienced a situation where the tire inflation kit would help. Tires were always unable to be repaired and needed replacing. That means u'll need a tow. Spare tire would have solved that. I suppose u could always buy a spare tire aftermarket.....just something else to consider.
6/28/11, 07:45 AM
#32
Bullitt Member
Originally Posted by 2010MustangGT
A lot of this "track ready blahhhhhhhh..." is due to the tires... not all of it, but a healthy portion.
The special ESC tuning is made for all scenarios. Which probably- tho there's no word on it... lets the car run a little looser due to it's wider tires over non BBP. But with that, ESC does not improve a vehicle's cornering performance, it rather helps minimize the loss of control.
So like I said, due to having wider tires- you can loosen that a step over the narrower tires of non BBP.
The special ESC tuning is made for all scenarios. Which probably- tho there's no word on it... lets the car run a little looser due to it's wider tires over non BBP. But with that, ESC does not improve a vehicle's cornering performance, it rather helps minimize the loss of control.
So like I said, due to having wider tires- you can loosen that a step over the narrower tires of non BBP.
For the majority of people these setting will just be used for burnouts. Nothing wrong with that
6/28/11, 07:57 AM
#34
Shelby GT350 Member
Yeah, that's true. The resale value isn't impacted that much...and as a return on investment, I would say that the obvious stuff like the electronics package, Sync, nav, glass roof, leather would add more than the Brembo package... but those things, IMO don't make for a better Mustang GT. These cars are all about the drive...and the BBP option DOES make a noticable improvement to the car's reflexes.
That said, if you don't like the BBP wheels (I happen to think they're amongst the best looking wheels ever to come on a Mustang
) you could get 85% of the benefit by picking out your own 19" wheels and tires and swapping out the front brakes later. It will almost definitely cost you more to do it this way though.
That said, if you don't like the BBP wheels (I happen to think they're amongst the best looking wheels ever to come on a Mustang
) you could get 85% of the benefit by picking out your own 19" wheels and tires and swapping out the front brakes later. It will almost definitely cost you more to do it this way though.
6/28/11, 08:27 AM
#35
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Yeah, that's true. The resale value isn't impacted that much...and as a return on investment, I would say that the obvious stuff like the electronics package, Sync, nav, glass roof, leather would add more than the Brembo package... but those things, IMO don't make for a better Mustang GT. These cars are all about the drive...and the BBP option DOES make a noticable improvement to the car's reflexes.
That said, if you don't like the BBP wheels (I happen to think they're amongst the best looking wheels ever to come on a Mustang ) you could get 85% of the benefit by picking out your own 19" wheels and tires and swapping out the front brakes later. It will almost definitely cost you more to do it this way though.
That said, if you don't like the BBP wheels (I happen to think they're amongst the best looking wheels ever to come on a Mustang
) you could get 85% of the benefit by picking out your own 19" wheels and tires and swapping out the front brakes later. It will almost definitely cost you more to do it this way though.well said. to stress the brembo package will likely add next to nothing to resale. Mainly because it's something that won't show up on things like nada, kbb, blackbook etc. and ultimately these are the sites that determine the true value of the car
6/28/11, 08:29 AM
#36
Bullitt Member
6/28/11, 09:10 AM
#37
Legacy TMS Member Moderator
The Brembo package is more of a marketing or appearance thing than a practical performance value.
People like the name. Most people like the wheels. You can use the better handling from time to time even on the street.
But the brakes themselves don't help on the street and are even a negative due to the increased unsprung weight. You will NEVER use the brakes hard repeatedly on the street so the fade resistance is pointless. Braking distance with ABS is virtually the same as the stock brakes for single stops; test differences are within the margin of error. Likewise better "feel" doesn't improve safety on the street.
The only place the brakes themselves make a lot of sense is on the track and the people who do that in a serious way will replace the suspension and wheels in the package.
If I was going to seriously track the car, I would rather be able to order JUST the Brembo brakes so i wouldn't have to pay more for the Brembo package suspension parts and wheels I would be replacing anyway. And if the car was for just street use, I would rather have everything in the Brembo Package EXCEPT the brakes, since they have no value there IMO.
To me the package only really makes sense for a street car that might do a few track days but isn't really interested in their lap times but even they need to add ducts to get the full benefits of the brakes. It probably also makes sense for a casual autoxer. For those people its a steal. But that is a pretty small percentage of all owners and even within Brembo package owners. Most people buy the package for the name or looks.
People like the name. Most people like the wheels. You can use the better handling from time to time even on the street.
But the brakes themselves don't help on the street and are even a negative due to the increased unsprung weight. You will NEVER use the brakes hard repeatedly on the street so the fade resistance is pointless. Braking distance with ABS is virtually the same as the stock brakes for single stops; test differences are within the margin of error. Likewise better "feel" doesn't improve safety on the street.
The only place the brakes themselves make a lot of sense is on the track and the people who do that in a serious way will replace the suspension and wheels in the package.
If I was going to seriously track the car, I would rather be able to order JUST the Brembo brakes so i wouldn't have to pay more for the Brembo package suspension parts and wheels I would be replacing anyway. And if the car was for just street use, I would rather have everything in the Brembo Package EXCEPT the brakes, since they have no value there IMO.
To me the package only really makes sense for a street car that might do a few track days but isn't really interested in their lap times but even they need to add ducts to get the full benefits of the brakes. It probably also makes sense for a casual autoxer. For those people its a steal. But that is a pretty small percentage of all owners and even within Brembo package owners. Most people buy the package for the name or looks.
6/28/11, 09:42 AM
#38
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I want a grabber blue, black interior, 6 speed, 373, brembo car. I've only found 1 other blue one and it was about 6 or so hours away and it didn't have 373s. That is me googling the zip codes for major cities near where I live and punching them in on Fords website. Can you still order them?
6/28/11, 09:47 AM
#39
Shelby GT350 Member
The Brembo package is more of a marketing or appearance thing than a practical performance value.
People like the name. Most people like the wheels. You can use the better handling from time to time even on the street.
But the brakes themselves don't help on the street and are even a negative due to the increased unsprung weight. You will NEVER use the brakes hard repeatedly on the street so the fade resistance is pointless. Braking distance with ABS is virtually the same as the stock brakes for single stops; test differences are within the margin of error. Likewise better "feel" doesn't improve safety on the street.
The only place the brakes themselves make a lot of sense is on the track and the people who do that in a serious way will replace the suspension and wheels in the package.
If I was going to seriously track the car, I would rather be able to order JUST the Brembo brakes so i wouldn't have to pay more for the Brembo package suspension parts and wheels I would be replacing anyway. And if the car was for just street use, I would rather have everything in the Brembo Package EXCEPT the brakes, since they have no value there IMO.
To me the package only really makes sense for a street car that might do a few track days but isn't really interested in their lap times but even they need to add ducts to get the full benefits of the brakes. It probably also makes sense for a casual autoxer. For those people its a steal. But that is a pretty small percentage of all owners and even within Brembo package owners. Most people buy the package for the name or looks.
People like the name. Most people like the wheels. You can use the better handling from time to time even on the street.
But the brakes themselves don't help on the street and are even a negative due to the increased unsprung weight. You will NEVER use the brakes hard repeatedly on the street so the fade resistance is pointless. Braking distance with ABS is virtually the same as the stock brakes for single stops; test differences are within the margin of error. Likewise better "feel" doesn't improve safety on the street.
The only place the brakes themselves make a lot of sense is on the track and the people who do that in a serious way will replace the suspension and wheels in the package.
If I was going to seriously track the car, I would rather be able to order JUST the Brembo brakes so i wouldn't have to pay more for the Brembo package suspension parts and wheels I would be replacing anyway. And if the car was for just street use, I would rather have everything in the Brembo Package EXCEPT the brakes, since they have no value there IMO.
To me the package only really makes sense for a street car that might do a few track days but isn't really interested in their lap times but even they need to add ducts to get the full benefits of the brakes. It probably also makes sense for a casual autoxer. For those people its a steal. But that is a pretty small percentage of all owners and even within Brembo package owners. Most people buy the package for the name or looks.
You bought a V6 car... but did you drive both versions of the GT?
I drove a base car initially and loved it, drove a BBP car and just about creamed my jeans. The suspension revisions and upgraded rubber make a noticable difference in the feel of the car.
The technical benefits may be "minimizable" as you state above but to those of us who prefer a more sporty driving car, the BBP makes a worthwhile difference.
Let's be honest here: this package costs less than the glass roof. It's not like you're throwing your money away on a huge option package. $1700 well spent, IMO.
6/28/11, 09:52 AM
#40
Looks like I'm the oddball. The wheels are not my favorite, and the cost of tires a real drag. I doubt I'll ever track the car, so the brakes I don't need. I'm mostly curious about the "suspension tuning", what if any benefits there are. I've noticed the silver lower control arms on cars on the lot, but don't know what that offers me, except cool undercarriage appeal.
My driving will be spirited country and mountain roads, interstate (500 mi a day), spirited freeway on ramps and around town jaunts.
I'm on the verge of ordering. I'd rather have cloth seats, Shaker Audio, comfort pack, and dual zone A/C. You can see how confused I am . . .
Oh, and I never met a factory stock shock I liked.
Any hints on what Mustang matches me the best ??
My driving will be spirited country and mountain roads, interstate (500 mi a day), spirited freeway on ramps and around town jaunts.
I'm on the verge of ordering. I'd rather have cloth seats, Shaker Audio, comfort pack, and dual zone A/C. You can see how confused I am . . .
Oh, and I never met a factory stock shock I liked.
Any hints on what Mustang matches me the best ??