bison

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_co...t_code=01698931

This pretty much rules out the possibility of a high performance V6 in the Mustang.

TMSBrad

No new info, but a good read.

rhumb

While there is some truth to that -- remember the mid '80's SVO and GT -- I think there is indeed room for the two cars - a Hi-Po V6 vs V8 GT - for distinct personalities. Whether that disctintiveness is enough to translate into enough sales for a business case is another matter.

A V6-based Hi-Po model, whether SVT badged or not, would undoubtedly emphasize handling and overall balance to a much higher degree, plus some insurance affordability for younger drivers.

However, if the earlier SVO vs GT experience is any indications - the SVO died in the market place - typical performance Mustang buyers aren't too open to such subtleties, prefering cheap price and simple straight line oomph, at least the typical '80's Mustang buyer. Both the SVO had very similar straight line speed, but the SVO had a much improved chassis and interior but a significantly higher price over the fast but brutish GT.

Whether this is still true with new and changing demographics and tastes, I'm not sure. A Hi-Po V6 might make for an effective inroad into the import tuner market as that might better match their tastes than a brutish V8 hot rod (as they might perceive, rightly or wrongly, the GT).

When the Duratec 3.5 comes on line, I could envision coupling that with a six-speed and uprated IRS chassis to make something that might effectively go up against the 350Z and other similar models (new Supra?). Maybe not as a full-on SVT model but perhaps as an RS, which I think is a nomenclature Ford will use on other less than full-bore performance models. Such a car would likely have similar straight line performance to a GT but much better chassis dynamics due to the more sophisticated suspension and smaller/lighter motor. It would cost more than a GT too, though far cheaper insurance might mitigate that considerably for younger buyers.

Oh well, interesting to contemplate anyway.

jarradasay

You are kidding right. Not to be an import junkie or anything, but the '05 GT is more that class. The 350Z has 287ponies, 274 ftlbs of torque and only weighs 3188lbs. 0-60 5.4 (Car and Driver) 1/4 14.0 (Car and Driver). The previous Supra was 3.0 TT rated at 320 HP, and 315 ftlbs of torque. Rumor has it that the next supra (if released) will get toyotas new 5.0 V8. Definately not mustang V6 area. Oh, I'd buy an 05 way before considering either of those cars, but give them a little credit. The V6 will be classing with cars like, the mitsubishi eclipse(210/205), and if HiPo is offered then the Toyota Solara (225/240), and Honda Accord 2 door(240/215) Or the RX-8 (238/159) if it goes after the imports. I heard/read somewhere that ford does want to V6 to venture into that market tho. And let the GT dominate the domestic market.

Galaxie

The V6 has and been and should remain, a low-buck entry-level powerplant.

A high-optioned hipo V6 would probably be in the Mustang GT price range, and it would not sell well IMO.

I would love to see a lot of hop-up parts available to the V6 crowd, mostly young people who need the cheaper insurance. That way you get the young'uns hooked on RWD american power.

mkoesel

I think you meant "ST" rhumb.

But yeah, I agree, a Duratec 35 powered ST would be cool.

crazyhorse

Not any breaking news, but, it is good to hear SVT Mustang in the press. Particularly interesting is the statement "we still have '04 product" Hopefully they are dragging their feet on announcements to help sell the '04. When their stock dwindles, they should start filling us in on my next car.

ford1

I'm glad ford has John Coletti in there, because we need a high performance V6 about like we need a hole in our head! Like he said if you want performance get the V8, the V6 is the bread and butter car not a performance car.

crazyhorse

I do like Coletti alot. He seems like a no BS, car guy.

jsaylor

I don't think the "issue" with the mid eighties SVO was that Mustang buyers don't appreciate great handling. IMHO the problem is the fact that
the great handling SVO was packing a four under the hood...turbo or otherwise. I own a Turbo Coupe, so I appreciate the bang for the buck and easy modability this motor offers. But, it seems obvious to me that the Mustang is more or less about V-8 power....wether that be a straight-line, drag strip hero; or a V-8 powered corner carver like the Boss 302.

Take that mid-eighties SVO and replace that turbo four with a standard 5.0L HO motor of the era (obviously compensating for weight). Yes, handling would have suffered due to the higher weight motor. But, does anyone seriously doubt it would have been much more popular with a V-8 even at it's still high price and somewhat limited (compared to the "real" SVO) handling capabilities.? I don't...not for a second.

matic

I don't see the problem with it. Different people like different things. A V6 is typically going to be more fuel efficient than a V8, so I could see the 3.5 with a supercharger being used for a mid-performance vehicle. I know we all like to make fun of ricers, but it's a big market that Ford seems to be paying more attention to with the Foci efforts lately. A nicely balanced V6 with unique styling cues and performance (and also price) somewhere close to (but still beneath) the GT would sell quite well I think, especially in the market that currently goes almost exclusively for imports. I can see kids going off to college getting a $22-23k performance V6 that's more economical far easier than a $26k V8 GT, not to mention the lower insurance rates.

It might not be something that you'd buy, but I think it makes business sense, and anything that is good for Ford is good for Ford fans, IMO.

dave 02 gt

an after there 25th birthday buy a v8 stang

dustindu4

an after there 25th birthday buy a v8 stang [/b][/quote]
good thing I'm 25!

Galaxie

Me too... my insurance quote for a mustang GT dropped from $5300 to $3200... (still ridiculous, but affordable)

Tone

I don't know what would sell, but I know what I would buy.

I would buy a value-priced V6 "performance model" that put an emphasis on fun-to-drive and balanced performance. Leave the impressive numbers to the GT and up crowd.

So, say I could walk into a Ford dealership and get a package that looks like this:

V6 Mustang Coupe
ST Package
including - dual exhaust, performance rear, handling package, performance tires, etc.

Say tweaks to the exhaust and intake provided another 5 - 10 hp (say to 215) and the supension tweaks gave me a tossable, well balanced, good handling car. I'd pay an extra $1000 - $1500 for a package like that. With proper gearing, it might dip under 7 seconds to 60 and do the quarters in the low 15s. If I could buy that car for around $CDN25,000, it would be a much more attractive choice for me than a $CDN30,000+ GT.

Such a car might be the basis for a Ford-sponsored grassroots racing program in an SCCA Autocross division. Again, the emphasis would be on low-buck fun, not killer hp.

Keep in mind that I'm 37, married with a mortgage and a new son. I'm not looking to impress anyone with my car and certainly don't need to beat the next guy across the intersection. For me, it's about a car that I like and that is fun to drive in a wide range of conditons. As well, it has to be affordable. A V6 Mustang ST as described would fit the bill.

bison

Yeah, I'd buy one of those too. Just having the 17" wheels and tires from the GT as an option on the V6 would be fine by me. I really have a problem with those tall, skinny 215/65-16's on the V6 -- they're depriving a minivan somewhere of its "rim protectors."

ford1

There is NO market for the ''V6 performance model'' and I for one am glad that John Coletti sees it the same way. When you get in the $22-23K mark it just makes sence to get the GT, if it's only $2-3K more to get a GT then you would be crazy not to get the GT. And if insurance rates are a concern you don't even need to be looking at a mustang.

V10

There is a market for a "performance" V6 Mustang, but it is very small. I agree with Coletti that it makes little sense for Ford to make a SVT V6 Mustang model.

However, I think Ford could make some extra money by offering a spruced up V6 model (not a SVT model).

As someone else said, take the V6 put on 17" wheels (different from the GT), dual exhaust, some suspension tweaks, fancier interior, some decals or badges, different grille and a spoiler (not the GT one) and make it a $2,000 option package. Ford's incremental manufacturing cost would probably be under $500 making it a nice profit center and filling the price gap between the regular V6 and the GT.

crazyhorse

Coletti's point was that most of that market segment buys USED cars and fixes them up themselves.

jarradasay

There is a market for a "performance" V6 Mustang, but it is very small. I agree with Coletti that it makes little sense for Ford to make a SVT V6 Mustang model.

However, I think Ford could make some extra money by offering a spruced up V6 model (not a SVT model).

As someone else said, take the V6 put on 17" wheels (different from the GT), dual exhaust, some suspension tweaks, fancier interior, some decals or badges, different grille and a spoiler (not the GT one) and make it a $2,000 option package. Ford's incremental manufacturing cost would probably be under $500 making it a nice profit center and filling the price gap between the regular V6 and the GT. [/b][/quote]
I agree. Roush makes a killing off of this market. In fact, its probably their only segment that is making money thanx to the new Cobra. 25 grand for a V6 with lower springs, side exhaust, 17s, with new exterior trim, and aluminum pedals. Within the reach of many people looking for sporty, but insurance-challenged. The v6 special edition could end up being more of an appearance package then performance, since perf. is V8 country.