Change in planes.....PLEASE HELP!!
6/13/13, 01:55 AM
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Change in planes.....PLEASE HELP!!
Sorry for the long read but please!!!! read it if you don't mind.
I bought my son a 2007 mustang gt automatic with the 4.6 3v motor just like mine other than color and no shaker. It has 33k on the clock.
He does not know about it yet. He thinks he is getting a 1998 honda civic...lol..I hope he will like it.
He will be 16 on October 28, 2013. I really hope to have the car done by then (It's being kept in storage). Also I'm having to do this in my spare time without him knowing...lol.....we usually spend a lot of time together fishing, hunting....etc...etc....so its getting harder and harder to make up reasons why he can't go with me when I go to work on the car. I really want him to think he is getting the civic up until the morning of his birthday.
Now for my questions:
CAMS:
I know there are different stages of nsr, vsr and spr comp cams. My brother and I (mostly my brother) are pretty sure we can handle either type so I'm not worried about the install. If I have to I will hire some help.
My questions:
Which cam/stage should I get if I am able to get mid length headers and o/r road h pipes?
Which cam/stage should I get if I have to use my stock headers with o/r H pipe?
I also do not mind adding a stall (upto 3000 or so) if needed with the setup you advise to go with.
I here these cars usually dyno around 260 rwhp or so in stock form so please give me a rough estiment of what your advice would put the car at.
BTW, PLEASE!!! specify if I will need a hand held tuner or a dyno tune.......or both....... with the set up you suggest.
Also PLEASE!! suggest brands and prices if possible.
Also......where can I buy mid-length headers for the car? Cost?
Thank you so, so very much!! I am really wanting to make my son's 16th birthday a good one as he has went through some pretty tough times with health issues (CANCER) in the last year.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for any and all advice.
Rake
I bought my son a 2007 mustang gt automatic with the 4.6 3v motor just like mine other than color and no shaker. It has 33k on the clock.
He does not know about it yet. He thinks he is getting a 1998 honda civic...lol..I hope he will like it.
He will be 16 on October 28, 2013. I really hope to have the car done by then (It's being kept in storage). Also I'm having to do this in my spare time without him knowing...lol.....we usually spend a lot of time together fishing, hunting....etc...etc....so its getting harder and harder to make up reasons why he can't go with me when I go to work on the car. I really want him to think he is getting the civic up until the morning of his birthday.
Now for my questions:
CAMS:
I know there are different stages of nsr, vsr and spr comp cams. My brother and I (mostly my brother) are pretty sure we can handle either type so I'm not worried about the install. If I have to I will hire some help.
My questions:
Which cam/stage should I get if I am able to get mid length headers and o/r road h pipes?
Which cam/stage should I get if I have to use my stock headers with o/r H pipe?
I also do not mind adding a stall (upto 3000 or so) if needed with the setup you advise to go with.
I here these cars usually dyno around 260 rwhp or so in stock form so please give me a rough estiment of what your advice would put the car at.
BTW, PLEASE!!! specify if I will need a hand held tuner or a dyno tune.......or both....... with the set up you suggest.
Also PLEASE!! suggest brands and prices if possible.
Also......where can I buy mid-length headers for the car? Cost?
Thank you so, so very much!! I am really wanting to make my son's 16th birthday a good one as he has went through some pretty tough times with health issues (CANCER) in the last year.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for any and all advice.
Rake
6/13/13, 02:13 AM
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BTW, I don't have to use comp cams..........I will be willing to use lunati or what ever you advise.
Also, I'm thinking of dumping the pipes under the car a few inches after the muffler before the back axle? Good or bad?
I'm also thinking of using 3" o/r pipes.....good or bad idea?
Also, I'm thinking of dumping the pipes under the car a few inches after the muffler before the back axle? Good or bad?
I'm also thinking of using 3" o/r pipes.....good or bad idea?
Last edited by jrctherake; 6/13/13 at 02:16 AM.
6/13/13, 06:04 AM
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Im not an expert on cams.
I do know most cams require new stiffer valvesprings. As far as duration and lift based on exhaust? Thats beyond me. I wouldnt go to crazy since this will be his daily driver and it needs to be plenty drivable. Cam phasers will need to be deleted (or what ive read they will need to be).
I could recommend a look at this site. Ive delt with them and they were helpful and I like their parts. Wanting to give their cams a go.
Www.modmaxracing.com
I do know most cams require new stiffer valvesprings. As far as duration and lift based on exhaust? Thats beyond me. I wouldnt go to crazy since this will be his daily driver and it needs to be plenty drivable. Cam phasers will need to be deleted (or what ive read they will need to be).
I could recommend a look at this site. Ive delt with them and they were helpful and I like their parts. Wanting to give their cams a go.
Www.modmaxracing.com
6/13/13, 07:45 AM
#4
Banned
Double check me but I'm pretty sure brenspeed Detroit rockers are nsr, don't require phased limiters, and don't require a tune. And they sound pretty **** good. I have comp ***** thumprs and they sound great, didn't do much for power, required phaser limiters, and required a tune. You're gonna need the cams, new valve cover gaskets, new cam phaser bolts, and a timing chain wedge/timing cover gasket depending on how you wanna do the job. And an oil change. They'll be fine with whatever exhaust you run. Mine was stock when I first had my cams installed. Clueless on the converter though. Talk to brenspeed on that one. Hope that helps.
6/13/13, 07:46 AM
#5
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Im not an expert on cams.
I do know most cams require new stiffer valvesprings. As far as duration and lift based on exhaust? Thats beyond me. I wouldnt go to crazy since this will be his daily driver and it needs to be plenty drivable. Cam phasers will need to be deleted (or what ive read they will need to be).
I could recommend a look at this site. Ive delt with them and they were helpful and I like their parts. Wanting to give their cams a go.
Www.modmaxracing.com
I do know most cams require new stiffer valvesprings. As far as duration and lift based on exhaust? Thats beyond me. I wouldnt go to crazy since this will be his daily driver and it needs to be plenty drivable. Cam phasers will need to be deleted (or what ive read they will need to be).
I could recommend a look at this site. Ive delt with them and they were helpful and I like their parts. Wanting to give their cams a go.
Www.modmaxracing.com
6/13/13, 06:24 PM
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I talked to a guy named Mike at Lunati and he suggested the following:
1. cam: nsr part # 21270702
Mike said Lunati does not sell the phaser limiter kit that the cam requires so he suggested I call comp cam. He said to not use the lock out kit that some go with because that would take a lot of hp away and may cause other problems.
2. He said that I would need a 2800 to 3000 stall. He suggested I call TCI and talk to Andrea about the stall.
3. He said that the stock headers would be just fine for what I want out of the car as I cannot do LT's because of my driveway.
4. He said that I will need to go with either 3.90 or 4.10 gears.
5. He said that mid pipes are up to the individual but most that are looking for that old school sound usually go with the 2.5 inch O/R H with Flowmasters.
He told me to call him back when I got ready to order the parts and he would take care of the leg work with comp cams and TCI (seems to be a very nice guy).
My son walked into the room at that point so I had to cut the call short and I did not get to ask Mike what hp/tq numbers I could expect with that set up.
I know hp/tq #'s are just that numbers but I am still curious.
Anyways, what do you guys think?
Rake
1. cam: nsr part # 21270702
Mike said Lunati does not sell the phaser limiter kit that the cam requires so he suggested I call comp cam. He said to not use the lock out kit that some go with because that would take a lot of hp away and may cause other problems.
2. He said that I would need a 2800 to 3000 stall. He suggested I call TCI and talk to Andrea about the stall.
3. He said that the stock headers would be just fine for what I want out of the car as I cannot do LT's because of my driveway.
4. He said that I will need to go with either 3.90 or 4.10 gears.
5. He said that mid pipes are up to the individual but most that are looking for that old school sound usually go with the 2.5 inch O/R H with Flowmasters.
He told me to call him back when I got ready to order the parts and he would take care of the leg work with comp cams and TCI (seems to be a very nice guy).
My son walked into the room at that point so I had to cut the call short and I did not get to ask Mike what hp/tq numbers I could expect with that set up.
I know hp/tq #'s are just that numbers but I am still curious.
Anyways, what do you guys think?
Rake
6/13/13, 07:01 PM
#7
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I talked to a guy named Mike at Lunati and he suggested the following:
1. cam: nsr part # 21270702
Mike said Lunati does not sell the phaser limiter kit that the cam requires so he suggested I call comp cam. He said to not use the lock out kit that some go with because that would take a lot of hp away and may cause other problems.
2. He said that I would need a 2800 to 3000 stall. He suggested I call TCI and talk to Andrea about the stall.
3. He said that the stock headers would be just fine for what I want out of the car as I cannot do LT's because of my driveway.
4. He said that I will need to go with either 3.90 or 4.10 gears.
5. He said that mid pipes are up to the individual but most that are looking for that old school sound usually go with the 2.5 inch O/R H with Flowmasters.
He told me to call him back when I got ready to order the parts and he would take care of the leg work with comp cams and TCI (seems to be a very nice guy).
My son walked into the room at that point so I had to cut the call short and I did not get to ask Mike what hp/tq numbers I could expect with that set up.
I know hp/tq #'s are just that numbers but I am still curious.
Anyways, what do you guys think?
Rake
1. cam: nsr part # 21270702
Mike said Lunati does not sell the phaser limiter kit that the cam requires so he suggested I call comp cam. He said to not use the lock out kit that some go with because that would take a lot of hp away and may cause other problems.
2. He said that I would need a 2800 to 3000 stall. He suggested I call TCI and talk to Andrea about the stall.
3. He said that the stock headers would be just fine for what I want out of the car as I cannot do LT's because of my driveway.
4. He said that I will need to go with either 3.90 or 4.10 gears.
5. He said that mid pipes are up to the individual but most that are looking for that old school sound usually go with the 2.5 inch O/R H with Flowmasters.
He told me to call him back when I got ready to order the parts and he would take care of the leg work with comp cams and TCI (seems to be a very nice guy).
My son walked into the room at that point so I had to cut the call short and I did not get to ask Mike what hp/tq numbers I could expect with that set up.
I know hp/tq #'s are just that numbers but I am still curious.
Anyways, what do you guys think?
Rake
6/13/13, 08:45 PM
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What exactly are your goals with the car? Are you trying to get max HP naturally aspirated or just looking for a cam sound? Our cars just don't respond well to cams, headers and such in N/A operation. You can spend thousands staying NA for not much HP gains.
OK first you will need a tuner. Almost anything you do to increase HP will require a tune. Get an SCT X3 tuner. http://www.sctflash.com/products.php?PID=1&VID=
You can get a dyno tune or do mail order tunes for the equipment you install.
If you want to install cams then do springs also. IMHO NSR cams are not worth the cost for what you get. If you want to stay NA then get some Comp Cams 127300 cams http://www.compperformancegroupstore...=FRD3VCKXFIVSR These have been proven to be a very nice NA cam. If you decide to go with phaser limiters DO NOT USE COMP CAMS PHASER LIMITERS. The Comp design is a poor design and doesn't work with the later version phasers, the Comp's will fail, ask me how I know. Get the Livernois phaser limiters http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/...miter-Kit.html better design, that can't fail.
For the auto call Chris at Circle D converter. https://www.circledspecialties.com/p...converter.aspx Best converter made for the 5R55. 3.73 gears are the best choice for an auto, due to the gearing in the auto. 4.10 will work but 3.73's will work better. I would add a hardened input shaft and deep pan while doing the converter swap.
If it were me I wouldn't spend all the money for cams, a tuner and a dyno tune, I would just leave the stock cams in the car and install this kit. http://www.brenspeed.com/v3vortech.html It will make the car a ball to drive, provide safe power and you can upgrade it in the future if you want to.
Earl
OK first you will need a tuner. Almost anything you do to increase HP will require a tune. Get an SCT X3 tuner. http://www.sctflash.com/products.php?PID=1&VID=
You can get a dyno tune or do mail order tunes for the equipment you install.
If you want to install cams then do springs also. IMHO NSR cams are not worth the cost for what you get. If you want to stay NA then get some Comp Cams 127300 cams http://www.compperformancegroupstore...=FRD3VCKXFIVSR These have been proven to be a very nice NA cam. If you decide to go with phaser limiters DO NOT USE COMP CAMS PHASER LIMITERS. The Comp design is a poor design and doesn't work with the later version phasers, the Comp's will fail, ask me how I know. Get the Livernois phaser limiters http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/...miter-Kit.html better design, that can't fail.
For the auto call Chris at Circle D converter. https://www.circledspecialties.com/p...converter.aspx Best converter made for the 5R55. 3.73 gears are the best choice for an auto, due to the gearing in the auto. 4.10 will work but 3.73's will work better. I would add a hardened input shaft and deep pan while doing the converter swap.
If it were me I wouldn't spend all the money for cams, a tuner and a dyno tune, I would just leave the stock cams in the car and install this kit. http://www.brenspeed.com/v3vortech.html It will make the car a ball to drive, provide safe power and you can upgrade it in the future if you want to.
Earl
6/14/13, 05:42 PM
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Instead of pulling the engine apart, why not work on suspension and brakes to make the car ride and stop better. Once he gets his driving time in, and proves to be responsible, add a supercharger...
6/14/13, 10:10 PM
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I agree to this that's a lot of car for a 16 year old and if he doesn't like it he's got problems lol I just hope he's a responsible kid I got my 06 GT(bone stock) when I was 17 and the only reason for that is I took good care of my first v6 mustang and proved that I could handle having a nice car not to mention at my job I drive brand new cars all day reaching into the 80,000 dollar range ..... and I think you should build the engine with him and teach him how it all goes together my dad is avidly against building mine (still thinks im going to get in trouble) but we did still build a 509 big block Chevy together and are closer than ever because of it ...... it's a hell of a first car and you should record his reaction to getting it when it comes time to give it to him
6/15/13, 08:28 PM
#11
By all means do cams if you're looking for that sound but suspension and brakes would be great starter mods. As a parent who lived through having a very responsible teenager wreck a car, I would be cautious. I hope he has a great birthday and better health this year!
6/15/13, 08:43 PM
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If your looking to add a little horsepower. Start with a tuner and a cold air intake. Do the install together. Easy and great way to start off modding his car. Tuner will need in the long run for future mods.
6/18/13, 09:05 PM
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You should talk to Chandler at Brenspeed. I have their Detroit Rockers cams and installed them myself and they are great. If you do cams you will need a tune. I have tunes from Brenspeed and Bama and both are good. The cams are NSR and do not require and lock outs. If you do cams and long tubes, the car will be louder than stock but if will sound really nice. If you do rear end diff gears, make sure they are FRPP. I have 4.10's in mine and like it.
Why can't you do LT's because of your driveway? If you have the right company, let fit perfectly and do not hand low. I have Kooks LT with catted H and just love them. If you so the combo of cams and LT's, some resonator type end pipes will help quieten it down a little and get rid of some of the drone and resonance. I have some Magnaflow magnapacks before the axle (midpipe setup) and then have Pypes Super Bomb resonator tips. Nice deep clean sound.
Why can't you do LT's because of your driveway? If you have the right company, let fit perfectly and do not hand low. I have Kooks LT with catted H and just love them. If you so the combo of cams and LT's, some resonator type end pipes will help quieten it down a little and get rid of some of the drone and resonance. I have some Magnaflow magnapacks before the axle (midpipe setup) and then have Pypes Super Bomb resonator tips. Nice deep clean sound.
6/19/13, 09:08 PM
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I decided to go to pressurized solutions in haleyville Alabama for the mods.
They are putting heads (trick flow), cams (lunati), 3200 stall (TCI), UDP, LT's (kooks), O/R h with Magnaflow and Pypes Super Bomb resonator tips, cai (airraid), gears (frpp 4.10) with a tune from BAMA.
The guy at pressurized solutions said he would throw in a free dyno tune since he is installing all of the above.
I'm dropping the car off this friday at 10:00 am and he said it would be ready by noon monday.
I think my son will be more than happy with this setup or at least I hope he is.
I started to just go with a supercharger (price almost the same) but I do not want to put that much hp under him. Then again, he is like me........he loves N/A motors so I believe he will love it.
Thanks for all the info and advice fellows.
Rake
They are putting heads (trick flow), cams (lunati), 3200 stall (TCI), UDP, LT's (kooks), O/R h with Magnaflow and Pypes Super Bomb resonator tips, cai (airraid), gears (frpp 4.10) with a tune from BAMA.
The guy at pressurized solutions said he would throw in a free dyno tune since he is installing all of the above.
I'm dropping the car off this friday at 10:00 am and he said it would be ready by noon monday.
I think my son will be more than happy with this setup or at least I hope he is.
I started to just go with a supercharger (price almost the same) but I do not want to put that much hp under him. Then again, he is like me........he loves N/A motors so I believe he will love it.
Thanks for all the info and advice fellows.
Rake
6/19/13, 09:42 PM
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I decided to go to pressurized solutions in haleyville Alabama for the mods.
They are putting heads (trick flow), cams (lunati), 3200 stall (TCI), UDP, LT's (kooks), O/R h with Magnaflow and Pypes Super Bomb resonator tips, cai (airraid), gears (frpp 4.10) with a tune from BAMA.
The guy at pressurized solutions said he would throw in a free dyno tune since he is installing all of the above.
I'm dropping the car off this friday at 10:00 am and he said it would be ready by noon monday.
I think my son will be more than happy with this setup or at least I hope he is.
I started to just go with a supercharger (price almost the same) but I do not want to put that much hp under him. Then again, he is like me........he loves N/A motors so I believe he will love it.
Thanks for all the info and advice fellows.
Rake
They are putting heads (trick flow), cams (lunati), 3200 stall (TCI), UDP, LT's (kooks), O/R h with Magnaflow and Pypes Super Bomb resonator tips, cai (airraid), gears (frpp 4.10) with a tune from BAMA.
The guy at pressurized solutions said he would throw in a free dyno tune since he is installing all of the above.
I'm dropping the car off this friday at 10:00 am and he said it would be ready by noon monday.
I think my son will be more than happy with this setup or at least I hope he is.
I started to just go with a supercharger (price almost the same) but I do not want to put that much hp under him. Then again, he is like me........he loves N/A motors so I believe he will love it.
Thanks for all the info and advice fellows.
Rake
6/20/13, 07:02 AM
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For the CAI, I would really recommend going with something other than Airraid. A bigger peformer would be a JLT Series 3 or a C&L Racer intake. I have the C&L racer and it is nice, but the JLT is bigger and better. I don't think you will get to much performance out of the Airraid system. If you are interested I do also have a FRPP Intake Manifold for sale. That and the CAI would be good for the car.
I decided to go to pressurized solutions in haleyville Alabama for the mods.
They are putting heads (trick flow), cams (lunati), 3200 stall (TCI), UDP, LT's (kooks), O/R h with Magnaflow and Pypes Super Bomb resonator tips, cai (airraid), gears (frpp 4.10) with a tune from BAMA.
The guy at pressurized solutions said he would throw in a free dyno tune since he is installing all of the above.
I'm dropping the car off this friday at 10:00 am and he said it would be ready by noon monday.
I think my son will be more than happy with this setup or at least I hope he is.
I started to just go with a supercharger (price almost the same) but I do not want to put that much hp under him. Then again, he is like me........he loves N/A motors so I believe he will love it.
Thanks for all the info and advice fellows.
Rake
They are putting heads (trick flow), cams (lunati), 3200 stall (TCI), UDP, LT's (kooks), O/R h with Magnaflow and Pypes Super Bomb resonator tips, cai (airraid), gears (frpp 4.10) with a tune from BAMA.
The guy at pressurized solutions said he would throw in a free dyno tune since he is installing all of the above.
I'm dropping the car off this friday at 10:00 am and he said it would be ready by noon monday.
I think my son will be more than happy with this setup or at least I hope he is.
I started to just go with a supercharger (price almost the same) but I do not want to put that much hp under him. Then again, he is like me........he loves N/A motors so I believe he will love it.
Thanks for all the info and advice fellows.
Rake
6/20/13, 08:30 AM
#19
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For the CAI, I would really recommend going with something other than Airraid. A bigger peformer would be a JLT Series 3 or a C&L Racer intake. I have the C&L racer and it is nice, but the JLT is bigger and better. I don't think you will get to much performance out of the Airraid system. If you are interested I do also have a FRPP Intake Manifold for sale. That and the CAI would be good for the car.
6/20/13, 08:47 AM
#20
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For the CAI, I would really recommend going with something other than Airraid. A bigger peformer would be a JLT Series 3 or a C&L Racer intake. I have the C&L racer and it is nice, but the JLT is bigger and better. I don't think you will get to much performance out of the Airraid system. If you are interested I do also have a FRPP Intake Manifold for sale. That and the CAI would be good for the car.
