TacoBill

Tom called me up from the carshow he's at. He got the 89 Trooper dyno'd and said he'll post up the graph.

I'll have Tom elaborate on the results.

Here's a link to explain the difference between the Dynojet vs Mustang Dyno.

89Trooper

Here's a little teaser pic:

Attachment 24058

TacoBill

WE WANT MORE!!

89Trooper

How about this:

Dyno Run 1 Video - The car sounds like an airplane at first, but they were flying overhead all day long.

Dyno Run 2 Video - Bounced off the rev-limiter in this one.

I have to scan in the dyno chart before I tell you the numbers. They were a little disappointing at first, but after talking about it, we think we have stumbled upon the problem.

I'm an idiot for not "fixing" the problem before the dyno runs, but the problem involves the car running very rich.

Unfortunately, we didn't have a crystal ball with us today.

mikes rx

Scan it tom, scan it.

Nice videos....that plane in the first one was very distracting.

What mods do you have on the car. I believe stock the 5.0L is about ~190-200 crank hp if I'm not mistaken

BTW, I don't know how rich it could have been...I didn't see black smoke coming out the exhaust.

89Trooper

Scan it tom, scan it.
I will, I will.

What mods do you have on the car. I believe stock the 5.0L is about ~190-200 crank hp if I'm not mistaken.
Well, mine was 305 crank HP.

BTW, I don't know how rich it could have been...I didn't see black smoke coming out the exhaust.
You could smell it! And see it on the A/F ratio chart. Dropped from normal (around 14.7:1) down to right at 10:1.

mikes rx

What mods do you have on the car. I believe stock the 5.0L is about ~190-200 crank hp if I'm not mistaken.
Well, mine was 305 crank HP.

Dang . That must be a bear (yet fun) to drive: A mustang buddy of mine has a 5.0 with every possible engine mod with the exception of a turbo, s-charger, or nitrous, and he's running factory size rubber (or slightly bigger, but still on the stock 5-spokes). If he puts in any amount of throttle off the line, he gets instant wheelspin.


BTW, I'm pretty sure he doesn't drive it in the rain. That would be scary

89Trooper

Mods are too numerous to list!! But it's naturally aspirated. I did build it from scratch - from a bare block. Every part, nut, and bolt was bought one by one until it was completed.

Here's the dyno chart:

Attachment 24062

Max RWHP = 254. Max Torque = 287.
Max BHP (at the flywheel) = 305.

A lot to read, but interesting...

He hit the rev-limiter on the 2nd run - which means he took it to 6250 RPM. That's why I think the red line doesn't taper off toward the end like the blue line does (in torque and HP). I think he got off of it a tad early on the first run.

None of us that have driven it could believe it at first, but after studying the chart, several things became apparent:

The car is a torque monster. It's a 331 stroker engine and it looks to be doing what it is designed to do. HP increases through the RPM band, but look at torque and how high it is through most of the RPM band! Toward the end it tapers off, but you don't need any torque at 5000+ RPMs, anyway.

The car feels much faster than the HP shows because of it being so light, and because of the huge amount of torque.

The "problem" dawned on me when we were driving home:

We knew it was really rich (from smelling it after both runs). A quick look at the chart when we were still at the show told us that the Air/Fuel Ratio line dropped and became lean. This didn't make sense since we smelled the unburned fuel.

Later, we realized we were incorrect. The line dropping actually shows it's becoming much more rich. Look at the A/F ratio line and how it drops to 10:1 and then tapers off at 11:1. That is less air to the same amount of fuel = too rich. It's being choked of air.

The "1985 style" air cleaner (with a regular paper air filter) is designed for a less powerful engine. I put it on for show (to get that old-style look) and it's fine for normal driving. But I was an idiot for not taking off the lid and filter for the dyno runs. The hood was open, so it would have had as much air as it needed right into the carburetor instead of having to suck it through those snorkels.

Attachment 24063

The A/F ratio dropping shows it wasn't getting enough air. And the rich smell of the unburned fuel backs that up. In the beginning of the RPM band it was fine, but quickly became starved for air at 2500 RPM.

Rich = safer for the engine, but more air = more HP.

I don't think it will double or anything like that. But I bet 50 more RWHP isn't out of the question.

mikes rx

Well, I officially feel like an idiot, and will now go into hiding.

I had no idea you had all that in the car. I don't know why, but I was under the assumption that it was all stock.

BTW, that torque curve is AWESOME. That's the way it should be: consistent power at any RPM. Your graph just goes to show that you don't need to run a car to redline to gain max acceleration. In your case, it seems that shifting at 4500 would be optimal

89Trooper

I had no idea you had all that in the car. I don't know why, but I was under the assumption that it was all stock.
So you are saying it should be more now that you know what's in the car??

Check this out:
Attachment 24070

BTW, that torque curve is AWESOME. That's the way it should be: consistent power at any RPM. Your graph just goes to show that you don't need to run a car to redline to gain max acceleration.
I do love the torque curve, but the HP curve not so much. Hopefully I have realized the solution.

In your case, it seems that shifting at 4500 would be optimal.
Yep - or a little higher in the better run.

TacoBill

Nice vids Tom.

I knew it was the air cleaner set-up. You have the engine, carb/intake, and exhaust to make the power, but your achilles heel is your air intake system. I had the same set-up in my 85 GT and that was rated at 225 HP. When I stepped up the HP in that engine, I went with one of those Ford Racing larger air cleaners.

Ehh, don't get caught up in the numbers game. Like you said, it's a Torque Monster, and torque is what wins races.

89Trooper

Thanks... Oh, it's great on the street, but I would like to know it's max HP... even if I take the lid off for the dyno run, and then run it with the restriction. At least then I'll know the engine is capable of XXX HP.

TacoBill

That would be a good process of elimination to the A/F and HP results you got.

89Trooper

Yes, it would rule out (or prove) the restriction. If there are no changes, I'll drop it 4% leaner in the jetting... and then 8% if it's still too rich. Only in the "power" mode though, I won't mess with the "cruise" mode.

I would go from #1 to #5... and then to #4 if need be. (There's another chart that tells you what jet and rod to install in the carb for each number on the chart below)

FLAstangx3

Somehow after yesterday, I knew you wouldn't get any sleep. Look there may be something 'small; your overlooking. Not knocking them BUT, It was rather a 'lack-luster' dyno set up at the show. Giving you 2 pulls in 92 degree heat with a micky mouse fan on a trailer, is not my idea for proven results. Add this factor. prior to you Fox there were 7, yep seven, S-197's in front of you. His "portable" equipment is user configured, isn't it? At the shop, INSIDE, real fans, real coolong time, real adjustments, real calibrations, should make tremondous gains on accuracy. Besides, I believe they were more or less set up do provide "Base-line runs, anyway. If it were my equipmet, I would not have abused it as much as they did yesterday at the show. IMHO.

Boltzman

Its all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. What you said is absolutely true,but a mans gotta eat

TacoBill

Besides Tom's 2 videos, didn't anyone else take any pictures?

Post some up!

89Trooper

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=63704

TacoBill

Thanks.

Besides Jackie, you guys suck at taking pics at Mustang shows... not like us westcoast shutter bugs.

89Trooper

I know... I even told her that.