Ponies on The Run (Again)
10/23/08, 05:07 PM
Point of the thread as I took is was that it's possible to push a 500rwhp car with the set up I have without windowing the block. To me that means that while conservative, per Dustin's remarks, there is room to play. So if I can still be safe and get a small bump then why not.
I think pushing the stock engine to these levels is asking for trouble. I would do it to mine, but if mine breaks, I'll fix it. Most people don't want to take that chance. I recommend that my customers stay in the 450 rwhp range for longevity. I understand the whipple has a great intercooler, but I think close to 500 rwhp is just pushing the stock components too far. I applaud Whipple for having the guts to release a kit like this and I hope I'm wrong about the longevity.
Ken
Ken
Just be careful Brian. I don't want to see any of the POTR guys loose a block.
10/23/08, 05:33 PM
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I guess I should clarify my above statements- you will likely only need the additional supporting mods at some point down the road, IF.... 1) you drag race on sticky DRs occasionally and 2) if you run an intercooler and make real power like big boys do.
10/23/08, 05:39 PM
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10/23/08, 05:41 PM
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lol
10/23/08, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tom281
I guess I should clarify my above statements- you will likely only need the additional supporting mods at some point down the road, IF.... 1) you drag race on sticky DRs occasionally and 2) if you run an intercooler and make real power like big boys do.
I know I'm inviting more trouble than I need, but that's why I posted it for your opinions rather than shooting before I aimed.
Next year clutch, TOB and input shaft will be on the to-do list. Hopefully the same time I do a bottom end ???
10/23/08, 05:59 PM
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If that's the case then I say do all that first before you go bumping up your hp.
10/23/08, 06:49 PM
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If things go well with my job after the first of the year, I'm seriously considering pulling the motor in putting in forged rods and pistons. Reusing the factory block, crank heads, etc. I'm thinking I could get a nice set of rods & pistons and get it all done for around $2500. That's just a guestimate at this point but still.......... then add some long tubes, a GT500 t-body, and a 3.0 pully. Really, all I want is 500-550 rwhp, with no worries. That's enough to get into the 10's, still be streetable, and be trouble free and just as importantly, worry free.
10/23/08, 06:51 PM
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Thanks, all this is being done on a Mustang Dyno. I'd love to see what number she pulls on a DynoJet. This tune feels so strong. I'm just glad a found a great shop relatively close to me to work with.
10/23/08, 06:52 PM
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If things go well with my job after the first of the year, I'm seriously considering pulling the motor in putting in forged rods and pistons. Reusing the factory block, crank heads, etc. I'm thinking I could get a nice set of rods & pistons and get it all done for around $2500. That's just a guestimate at this point but still.......... then add some long tubes, a GT500 t-body, and a 3.0 pully. Really, all I want is 500-550 rwhp, with no worries. That's enough to get into the 10's, still be streetable, and be trouble free and just as importantly, worry free.
. Sounds like a monster if you get all that done. What do you think about that new Techno CAI for the Saleen?
10/23/08, 06:54 PM
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Techno? I don't want no stinking Techno..... that's Bill's thing, not mine.
OK seriously though I haven't seen it yet. Plus I don't think it would be much better than the Saleen ultimate kit that I'm running now. I need more proof than what's being said.
EDIT: just watched the video on modfords. Looks good, however even though they have a larger MAF housing, it looks like they're still using the stock MAF meter, whereas the Saleen has a new, larger Saleen-spec meter, which is what is needed for more than 450 rwhp. That's the main reason why I changed.... at 450 my stock sensor was at 4.9v and 5.0 is max. I believe that's a main cause of why I didn't see a bigger gain on the dyno with the twin screw cams.
Last edited by tom281; 10/23/08 at 07:02 PM.
10/23/08, 09:04 PM
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If things go well with my job after the first of the year, I'm seriously considering pulling the motor in putting in forged rods and pistons. Reusing the factory block, crank heads, etc. I'm thinking I could get a nice set of rods & pistons and get it all done for around $2500. That's just a guestimate at this point but still.......... then add some long tubes, a GT500 t-body, and a 3.0 pully. Really, all I want is 500-550 rwhp, with no worries. That's enough to get into the 10's, still be streetable, and be trouble free and just as importantly, worry free.
That is exactly the same path I am planning. I've already gotten my first ball park quote for a 'budget build'. Perhaps the difference being the Long-Tubes, to be seen, and a single blade Throttle body.... Dunno 'bout the pulley.
10/23/08, 10:45 PM
If you're going thru the bother of pulling your motor out for a bottom end build, go all the way and drop in a Cobra crank and ARP mainstuds (and headstuds), along with new rods and pistons. Why do it half ***?
I mean you guys have any idea what it costs to R&R a motor, then have your shortblock built into a longblock? I do, so don't cut yourself short, especially when prepping the motor to handle 'monster HP'.
I mean you guys have any idea what it costs to R&R a motor, then have your shortblock built into a longblock? I do, so don't cut yourself short, especially when prepping the motor to handle 'monster HP'.
10/23/08, 11:00 PM
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If you're going thru the bother of pulling your motor out for a bottom end build, go all the way and drop in a Cobra crank and ARP mainstuds (and headstuds), along with new rods and pistons. Why do it half ***?
I mean you guys have any idea what it costs to R&R a motor, then have your shortblock built into a longblock? I do, so don't cut yourself short, especially when prepping the motor to handle 'monster HP'.
I mean you guys have any idea what it costs to R&R a motor, then have your shortblock built into a longblock? I do, so don't cut yourself short, especially when prepping the motor to handle 'monster HP'.
Yeah I have an idea what it is to build a motor I've built several myself. Excluding machine work, from a bare block to running car. It wasn't a 3v by any stretch and they weren't stock by a long-shot either but I've done it. It isn't as hard as you would imagine. The only thing that stops me, on this car at the moment, is the cam configuration on the mod motors and that you'd dam-well have to have a tune ready to go, which I would not have in hand.
Last edited by habu; 10/23/08 at 11:13 PM.
10/23/08, 11:33 PM
Point is, if your willing to lay down $2500-$3000 in labor, why not upgrade the last piece of the stock component and install HD fasteners? This way you're covered for future HP mods including raising your boost.
But hey, what do I know..
10/24/08, 12:03 AM
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Not saying you don't know anything don't know why that would come in.
Just like you didn't question my ability, you asked if I knew the costs and yeah I do, I've gotten quotes for my motor and I know how much I can save first hand. so I am leaning towards the budget build. Maybe I'm wrong maybe I'm not we'll see
Just like you didn't question my ability, you asked if I knew the costs and yeah I do, I've gotten quotes for my motor and I know how much I can save first hand. so I am leaning towards the budget build. Maybe I'm wrong maybe I'm not we'll see
10/24/08, 01:13 AM
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Shots fired! 
So many ways to go when you start thinking of upgrading the internals. I found myself in this spiral dive when talking to Costal High Performance, Livernoise, PowerHeads and LNR. Bottom line for me if I ever decide to go this route would be to go with a fully assembled long block. If I decided to go with cams then I would have them installed by the engine builder. This is probably the most expensive way to go but this way I can hold one vendor accountable for the motor. True the local installer will have to assemble all of the accsesory gear and be responsible for tune, etc. My decision is based partly on all of the crap I've seen around me. I'd like to trust a local shop but there are too many hands in the pot. Hence the decision for a fully assembled LB. No machine shop down time. As for the old parts 3V Mod Motor w/ low miles will sell fairly quickly on the open market. So does any have an extra 10K?
Jed
So many ways to go when you start thinking of upgrading the internals. I found myself in this spiral dive when talking to Costal High Performance, Livernoise, PowerHeads and LNR. Bottom line for me if I ever decide to go this route would be to go with a fully assembled long block. If I decided to go with cams then I would have them installed by the engine builder. This is probably the most expensive way to go but this way I can hold one vendor accountable for the motor. True the local installer will have to assemble all of the accsesory gear and be responsible for tune, etc. My decision is based partly on all of the crap I've seen around me. I'd like to trust a local shop but there are too many hands in the pot. Hence the decision for a fully assembled LB. No machine shop down time. As for the old parts 3V Mod Motor w/ low miles will sell fairly quickly on the open market. So does any have an extra 10K?
Jed
10/24/08, 05:21 AM
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I`m Back.....
Well kinda. Lurking now and then mostly.
Y'all MegaPosters of ill repute still goin strong I see...especially Bill.
Just stopped by to say I JUST made 10000 miles.
Heh. only took 2 and a half years.
Well kinda. Lurking now and then mostly.
Y'all MegaPosters of ill repute still goin strong I see...especially Bill.
Just stopped by to say I JUST made 10000 miles.
Heh. only took 2 and a half years.
10/24/08, 05:43 AM
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Jed, I don't have an extra $10k for you, sorry...... hahahahaa...... that's why I'm thinking about a budget build.
The ARP hardware is a necessity, I didn't mention it because I knew everybody would go that way anyway. My only arguement to Bill's comments is that reusing the factory crank, block, heads, etc. are acceptable for what I want. And no, I don't want any more HP. 500-550 is enough to run 10s and still be pretty streetable. Plus remember guys, the other reason for saving cash on the engine is because at some point, I would need some tranny work (think: 6 speed conversion kit for $5000).
And yes Bill, I know what it takes to R&R a motor. I've watched Dave at Brenspeed blow up one of their shop cars on Wednesday afternoon, and have a new long block installed with the car on the dyno doing tuning at noon on Friday. Key is to have the job scheduled by a shop you trust. Unfortunately Bill you never had the opportunity to do this because of the bad luck that you've been having with your build.
Any way, I'm just floating the idea..... time will tell what happens.
The ARP hardware is a necessity, I didn't mention it because I knew everybody would go that way anyway. My only arguement to Bill's comments is that reusing the factory crank, block, heads, etc. are acceptable for what I want. And no, I don't want any more HP. 500-550 is enough to run 10s and still be pretty streetable. Plus remember guys, the other reason for saving cash on the engine is because at some point, I would need some tranny work (think: 6 speed conversion kit for $5000).
And yes Bill, I know what it takes to R&R a motor. I've watched Dave at Brenspeed blow up one of their shop cars on Wednesday afternoon, and have a new long block installed with the car on the dyno doing tuning at noon on Friday. Key is to have the job scheduled by a shop you trust. Unfortunately Bill you never had the opportunity to do this because of the bad luck that you've been having with your build.
Any way, I'm just floating the idea..... time will tell what happens.