vwAirCooled

So you want make sure every vote is counted in heavily democrat counties/cities right? Ok, that's fair...

GORE LOST THE ELECTION

Do you really think that if democrats thought they really DID in fact win the election, that they would have allowed it to not be challenged more vigorously? If you do think they won, and rolled over so easily, then Democrats truely have no spine whatsoever, and they shouldnt be in any political positions at all for being so incredibly weak.

Kotzenjunge

Yeah, because it's not like they should bow down to the UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT (that voted along party lines) or anything. Fight the power, Dems! Show the SUPREME $%&#ING COURT who's boss! Betcha them Republicans woulda strung 'em up by their toes and whipped 'um til they said uncle, bah gawd.

Good lord, you people who think Bush won really have no clue whatsoever how he "won" it.

What the $%&# is this. Um, yeah? They're votes, they should be counted. They determined the entire outcome of the country. What, people aren't allowed to have theirs counted because you aren't in agreement with who they voted for?

vwAirCooled

You missed my point apparently.

My point was that only the heavily democrat counties were being contested. How convenient...

But then again, I am sure that most democrats do not care about disenfranchised republicans.

Kotzenjunge

Those were the counties that were close enough to be recounted under Florida state and local laws.

Got another pop-out in your hit parade for why Bush "won?"

mr-mstng

Here we go. * takes the gloves off*

Gore was supposed to win? You mean the democrats rigged the election, and something went wrong? Not enough dead voted in Florida? What's that, you only got to vote once? What's that you can't understand the ballot? That's ok, we'll give you a different one. What's that? the ballot isn't in Mongolian? Klingon? No problem.

FOR THE RECORD, ALL OF THE VOTES IN ALL OF THE COUNTIES WERE COUNTED IN THE MONTHS AFTER THE ELECTION, AND BUSH STILL WON

What don't you understand?

Listen people, this is the system we have, like it or not. This election may have Bush winning the popular, and Kerry get the electoral votes. Then what? Will that be fair??? I won't whine, because that's the way the system works. If you don't like it, come up with a system that is equitable to everyone and doesn't lean to the left or right, and doesn't discrimate against people in rural areas or populated cities, or against the rich or the poor. Not too easy is it? It will take someone far smarter than I to come up with this answer. Since this nation has become so polarized by ideology, and split right down the middle, this is going to happen more often. We must accept what happens, no matter the outcome. Once that falls apart, so does the basic foundation of our country.

I am a republican in a predominatly democratic area. A republican has not won an office in 30 + years around here, but I vote EVERY election. Its my duty as a citizen and a right so many people died to preserve, I will not forgo that right I have been given. Republican or Democrat, if you don't like what is happening, get involved. Write people, call them, email them. Work to change it. Get involved, its YOUR country, and YOUR right! Use it!


:flag2:

Dr Iven

This is ridiculous...

Bush didn't rob the election. Do you think, honestly, that BUSH had ANYTHING to do with the system? Even if the system DID supposedly fail, you Democrats who say that Bush is not too smart must concede that he must be somewhat witty to have singlehandedly manipulated the outcome of the vote. And where would we be as a country with Gore president? He would've went with popular opinion, and Hussein would still be in power, still be a threat, and still be killing people. What's popular is not always right, and what's right is not always popular. If Bush loses this election, at least he lost it defending our country.

And just because he talks slow, doesn't mean he's dumb. I talk slow, and was Salutatorian of my high school with a 4.35 GPA, and a full scholarship to any state university I want, bah gawd.

vwAirCooled

Here you go. But I guess maybe you think Haliburton owns CNN too....

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/florida.ballots/

"Florida recount study: Bush still wins

A comprehensive study of the 2000 presidential election in Florida suggests that if the U.S. Supreme Court had allowed a statewide vote recount to proceed, Republican candidate George W. Bush would still have been elected president. "

Dr Iven

And this coming from CNN!

But, I guess we're the ones in denial, right?

TMSBrad

He would've been elected president because of the Electoral College. The question is, who would've won the popular vote vs. who would've won the EC votes.

TMSBrad

Remember, debating is allowed, fighting is not.

Dr Iven

Gore definitely had more popular votes... I don't think there's any questioning that... but that's the way the system is and has been for 200+ years. It's flawed, as nothing is perfect, but it's close enough that it doesn't need a revision. If Kerry wins, I seriously hope Bush wins the popular vote. :usa:

vwAirCooled

"The distinction between our Republic and a democracy is not an idle one. It has great legal significance.

The Constitution guarantees to every state a Republican form of government (Art. 4, Sec. 4). No state may join the United States unless it is a Republic. Our Republic is one dedicated to "liberty and justice for all." Minority individual rights are the priority. The people have natural rights instead of civil rights. The people are protected by the Bill of Rights from the majority. One vote in a jury can stop all of the majority from depriving any one of the people of his rights; this would not be so if the United States were a democracy.

In a pure democracy 51 beats 49[%]. In a democracy there is no such thing as a significant minority: there are no minority rights except civil rights (privileges) granted by a condescending majority. Only five of the U.S. Constitution's first ten amendments apply to Citizens of the United States. Simply stated, a democracy is a dictatorship of the majority. Socrates was executed by a democracy: though he harmed no one, the majority found him intolerable."

duhler

I have no idea if these are true. I don't find any reference on Snopes, so if someone has anything to the contrary -- so what -- everyone gets misquoted:

Everyone seems to make fun of President Bush and his use of the English language.
However, if the truth be known, he is NOT the only one who says things that make little or no sense at times.
Check for yourself..
---------------------------
"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."
- John F. Kerry

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
- John F. Kerry

"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."
- John F. Kerry

"The future will be better tomorrow."
- John F. Kerry

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
- John F. Kerry

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."
- John F. Kerry

"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."
- John F. Kerry

"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
- John F. Kerry

"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
- John F. Kerry

"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."
- John F. Kerry

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
- John F. Kerry

"It's time for the human race to enter the solar system."
- John F. Kerry

TMSBrad

Those quotes have all been attribted to George W. Bush, Al Gore, and Dan Quayle over the last several years.

GhostTX

I don't care who it is. Follow anybody around 24/7 and you're bound to find some gems.

Kotzenjunge

Here you go. But I guess maybe you think Haliburton owns CNN too.... [/b][/quote]
Did I say a $%&#ing thing about Halliburton, no I didn't. Don't put things in my mouth.

Obviously YOU'RE missing MY point. Bush was sworn in before these recounts were all finished by the independent and media organizations, so for all we knew, the recount could have shown Gore won. Since the counting wasn't done, he hadn't won yet, but he was declared the victor based on the US Supreme Court overruling of the Floridian Supreme Court's decision to allow recounts to continue. That was the end of it, and that's how Bush "won." I'll continue to put it in quotation marks until/if he has an actual poll victory before the electoral college casts its votes.

What you harped on was that the votes were contested in areas that were Dem-friendly, ignoring that they were simply going by the laws of the state. It's not as if the party just picked some counties they thought could be good to sway and start making noise.

But rather than see shades of grey I'll just paint myself red, white, and blue and keep extra cans of black and white paint in the garage so I can continue to ignore complexities. It's the beauty of being conservative.

And if Kerry wins the electoral vote, he'll carry the popular vote as well. Keep in mind the areas those electoral votes will be coming from. Very, very populated.

If we can't toss the whole mother out, reform the electoral college so that every state can have votes seperated between candidates instead of going all for one or another.

I should add I don't blame him for anything that went down in that election, nor do I blame Al Gore. It's the bulldogs on both sides that stir things up. Karl Rove can eat a bag of anthrax for some of the things he's done to help his boy Bush get ahead, like attacking John F'n McCain's war record in 2000 and now attacking Kerry's four years later. Rove is the real mastermind behind all this.

Lalo

McCain Condemns Anit-Kerry Ads

Dr Iven

I was sent this in an e-mail, and I'm unsure of the source:


ELECTION 2004
Vet: Officers told Kerry to leave Vietnam
Colleagues couldn't take John's behavior, attitudes anymore

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: May 14, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sen. John Kerry was told to leave Vietnam by three colleagues upset with his behavior and attitudes, according to a fellow swift-boat officer during the war.

Thomas Wright says the misbehavior of the presumptive Democratic presidential candidate got to the point where his divisional commander no longer wanted Kerry in his boat group and re-assigned him.

Then Wright and like-minded boat officers took matters into their own hands, according to John B. Dwyer, a Vietnam veteran and military historian writing in the online magazine American Thinker.

"When he got his third Purple Heart, three of us told him to leave," Wright said, according to Dwyer. "We knew how the system worked and we didn't want him in Coastal Division 11.

"Kerry didn't manipulate the system," he continued, "we did."

Wright, who at times was officer-in-charge over Kerry, said he had occasion to observe Kerry's behavior and attitudes, and the circumstances surrounding his early departure from the war zone.

Wright noted Kerry's chosen moniker for radio communications between the boats was "Boston Strangler."

The officer said he and most other swift-boat officers had two commandments: 1. Protect the crews. 2. Win.

But working with "Boston Strangler" became problematical, he said, according to Dwyer.

"I had a lot of trouble getting him to follow orders," Wright recalled. "He had a different view of leadership and operations. Those of us with direct experience working with Kerry found him difficult and oriented toward his personal, rather than unit goals and objectives."

Wright said he "believed that overall responsibility rested squarely on the shoulders of the OIC or OTC in a free-fire zone. You had to be right [before opening fire]."

However, he continued, "Kerry seemed to believe there were no rules in a free-fire zone, and you were supposed to kill anyone. I didn't see it that way."

The rules were vital, Wright emphasized, because it was important the enemy "understood that swift boats were a competent, effective force that could dominate his location."

"You couldn't achieve that by indiscriminate use of weapons in free-fire zones," he said.

Wright referred to the three Purple Hearts awarded to Kerry, which allowed him to leave Vietnam for the U.S.

"No one wanted a Purple Heart because it meant we had made a mistake," he said. "We made sure our crews were recognized, but no one took pride in a Purple Heart."

More than a dozen of Kerry's superior officers and colleagues during the war held a press conference May 4 in Washington to tell Americans the senator is unfit to be commander-in-chief of the United States.

Retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffman, who headed Coastal Division 11, said Kerry was seen by colleagues as a self-serving, "loose cannon" who came only to launch a political career.

Hoffman said Kerry "arrived in country with a strong anti-Vietnam War bias and a self-serving determination to build a foundation for his political future."

"He was aggressive, but vain and prone to impulsive judgment, often with disregard to specific tactical assignments," Hoffman said. "He was a loose cannon."

Hoffman and his colleagues with the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are among more than 200 veterans who have signed a letter asking Kerry to authorize the Department of the Navy to release all of his military records, including health documents.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the Dems could make a big deal about President Bush's alcoholism in the 70's, why can't Republicans criticize Kerry for behavior like this?

vwAirCooled

Uh... The Halliburton thing was a joke... BUT, its a scientific fact that Halliburton is brought up at some point whenever a liberal is complaining about Bush... <---- WARNING: THATS ANOTHER JOKE

Dude, relax! Just trying to have a discussion here. I know its a sore spot for some people.

But I think I get your point now...

Bush won, but he didnt know he won until after he won. Then other people checked and said "yeah he won" but he didnt know that when he won. But he could have NOT won. Even though he won.

Got it...

Personally I voted for McCain in the primary... I'm still upset he lost...

mr-mstng

McCain is like Arlen Specter (PA senator) he's a RINO.

Republican In Name Only.

Actually, I liked McCain at first too, but he start flip-flopping to pander to everyone. That annoys me. If you stand for something, stick by it. Don't pander.