houtex

Well, they've gotten spy pics of the newest Dodge to be comin' down the pike, and it's supposedly the Charger.

http://www.allpar.com/cars/lx/dodge-charger.html

At least, that's what they think it is. Rumors abound (probably denial/hoping) that this isn't it, that the actual Charger is still under wraps, and this will be named something else. I dunno, 400 or Dynasty or something...

BUT....That's not even competition, if that's Charger. Which is a shame to have that name attached to an otherwise nice car. Kinda like trying to name an SUV the Road Runner or a truck GTO, yeah? It's no Charger, IMO.

And let me tell ya, they are UP in arms over there. How funny. Well, honestly, I kinda am too, because, until the new Mustang rolled around, I was lusting after the '99 show Charger. THAT was a pretty car. They needed to do that. DCX needs to learn from Ford's experience in trying to change Mustang into a Probe. Yeah, THAT happened, didn't it?

Not to worry now. My very first ever new car will be the newly designed Mustang, 'cause I can't not get one now. It's just about perfect for me. Maybe a color problem, but hey, I can fix that somehow...

I dunno. I just thought I'd share that. Mods, move it if ya wanna.

kevinb120

so they ended up giving up and rebadged a 300, what a surprise. A coupe is in the works though. I could of told you it would be a 300 with a magnum nose on day one of the 300's release.

Dr Iven

Wow, nice find.

We've been talking about the new Charger in General Vehicle Discussion for awhile, but this it the first time I've seen these pics. Of course, I haven't been to GVD in a few hours.

Dr Iven

It actually looks just like a Magnum but with a trunk instead of a hatch. :notnice:

Lalo

agreed

its a hunk of crap. i am p'od they did this to the charger name

The Deviant One

Looks like they just killed the Charger's muscle car heritage buy turning it into a sedan.

Dodge...When will they learn?

Well, look at it this way....at least you can still kick some but on the street while hauling your kids to a soccer game.

REVENGE OF THE SOCCER MOM!!!

kevinb120

I still like that American vehicles are getting tons of attention, who the heck cares that the Avalon is getting redesigned these days?? Its just that the proposed SRT8 300 coupe(most likely a charger will follow) will price right up against the next SVT, which is starting to look like will come with an underrated; easy-to-make-600 hp engine.

Dr Iven

And we all know that the Semi-Hemi isn't producing great performance numbers. High-horsepower engines in heavy vehicles don't produce great numbers. :notnice:

At least it isn't sissy looking. :usa:

grabbergreen

Actually, the transition from 2-door to 4-door makes sense in the Charger's case...

... hear me out first...

Keep in mind that the original Charger was not a Pony-car. It was considered an "Intermediate" car, alongside the GTO, Chevelle, and Road Runner. These cars were then what cars like the Acura TL are now-- performance mid-size cars. In fact, the 2004 GTO and the Mercedes-Benz CL-class are about the only "midsize" 2-doors that I can think of. The market has evolved. 4-door models are no longer virtually exclusive to the largest of cars. Along these lines the new Charger will effectively serve the same niche as the old Charger.

The Mustang, Camaro, Firebird, Javelin, Barracuda, and Challenger were smaller than the "intermediate" cars, and, thus, were given their own distinct size class-- the ponycar. The Ponycar was unique in that it was targeted directly at younger buyers craving performance. Incidentally, after the Japanese invasion of the auto market in the '70's and '80's, this formula was revised. The cars got even smaller. RWD gave way to FWD. The market niche once occupied by the Mustang and Camaro were overrun with the Toyota Celica, Eagle Talon, Mitsubishi Eclipse, Mazda MX-6, Acura Integra... you get the picture. These cars, compact and aimed at younger buyers, still retain the 2-door formula to this day.

Hence why it would make sense that the Mustang, Camaro, and Firebird retain a 2-door format. Hence why I would be up-in-arms if Dodge called a sedan "Challenger" or "Barracuda". As for "Charger" and "Road Runner", it kinda makes sense to give them 4-doors if you consider the evolution of the automotive market...

I'm sure many of you disagree, but this is my perspective, and it makes sense to me.

Dr Iven

Well, in that respect, the Mustang should be more like a 2-door Civic nowadays. It started out as an economical "secretary" car.

They could have called it something other than Charger is all.

The Deviant One

I just don't see how this thing could be even any competition for the mustang at all. Even if it has the 6.1L Hemi in it, it'll still get smoked by a GT. This thing probably weighs a ton more compared to the mustang and isn't even in the same class of cars (2-door pony car vs. 4-door mommy hauler?) Come on Dodge...you can do better than this?

Alls I know is that I wouldn't even worry and lose any sleep over this. I would rather worry about the next GM ponycar coming (hopefully 07 Camaro, so we would have someone to play with again.)

grabbergreen

Erm...

... as I'm sure we all know, there was a plan to do so in the mid-80's.

Instead, they called it the Probe.

And to add to my previous post, the market is beginning to make another shift.

Better weight distribution and traction control are allowing RWD vehicles to make a comeback. I don't think they'll ever co-exist with the FWD sport compacts as part of the same niche, however. The new RWD wave, spearheaded by cars like the 350Z, RX-8, Crossfire, and IS-300, occupy a newly-developing segment of the market that is higher-up than the sport compacts, but still smaller and less-expensive than the performance sedans. This is the segment that the new Mustang will probably be competing in. This means that the new "stang's competition is composed of cars like the 350Z... which is why I'm glad Ford decided to take the handling issue seriously.

Dr Iven

Yeah, that was the mid-'80s, too. Twenty-thirty years ago, the Mustang almost died. Thankfully, it was saved, and once again became a fun, fast, and practical car.

I was just implying that 40 years ago, had the Civic existed and existed in the capacity it does today, it would have been closer competition to the Mustang than it is today. However, that doesn't mean that the Mustang today should be made with its original purpose in mind, which is what you imply about the Charger.

BlackRiderX

It will sell better than the GTO, but only if it has a HEMi.

tom_vilsack

I say bring em all on...being 42 i was just a tad to young to really enjoy the muscle car era...by the time i was 16 it was 1977 and farrah was driving them darn mustangII...so if us auto makers are gonna go at it again,i say where all the better for it...

The Deviant One

Erm...

... as I'm sure we all know, there was a plan to do so in the mid-80's.

Instead, they called it the Probe.

And to add to my previous post, the market is beginning to make another shift.

Better weight distribution and traction control are allowing RWD vehicles to make a comeback. I don't think they'll ever co-exist with the FWD sport compacts as part of the same niche, however. The new RWD wave, spearheaded by cars like the 350Z, RX-8, Crossfire, and IS-300, occupy a newly-developing segment of the market that is higher-up than the sport compacts, but still smaller and less-expensive than the performance sedans. This is the segment that the new Mustang will probably be competing in. This means that the new "stang's competition is composed of cars like the 350Z... which is why I'm glad Ford decided to take the handling issue seriously. [/b][/quote]
True... I do agree that at this current point in time, the auto industry is in a transitional phase, especially with rear wheel drive performance making a come back. In fact I see cars such as the 350Z as the mustang's new competition as oppossed to say a new "charger" or GTO or camaro. Even the Camaro, seems to me to be an outdated adversary to the mustang. Now if chevy revamps the Camaro to perform at the same level on all corners as the new mustang, 350z, mazda RX-8, etc. rather than just be a stupid-fast car that handles like a brick, then it too could evolve and we could see a another chapter in the pony car/sports car wars.

The way I see it, since we are on the topic of mid-size performance sedans, cars such as the 300C/charger are more go-fast luxury type sedans. If Ford were to come out with a car to compete in this segment along with the 300C/charger, then they should bring back the Ford 427 concept car and rebadge it as a Galaxie.

The Deviant One

interesting you brought that up.

It seems that when it comes to Dodge, their cars, no matter how poorly built they are, will only sell cuz of the HEMI.

Sad.... this only reinforces how stupid some people are.

Dr Iven

...Or how GOOD Daimler-Chrysler's advertising is.

grabbergreen

Actually, according to Motor Trend's forecast, Ford has something along those lines slated for a late 2005/early 2006 production (I believe as a 2006 model). I think they will resurrect the "Fairlane" badge for it, though "Galaxie" has also been tossed around. From what I understand, it will be built on the DEW Lite platform and will borrow liberally from the 427 concept, in terms of aesthetics. All indications also point to a V8 powertrain.

To strike up another battle of the American 2-doors, I think Dodge should make a HEMI-powered Challenger coupe, based on a smaller, lighter version of the LX platform. I'm also hoping Chevrolet makes a Chevelle on the Zeta platform as a cousin to the higher-priced and more-exclusive GTO. The way I see it, this new Chevelle should feature a solid rear axel, like the Mustang, and feature either an LS-1 or Northstar V-8, good for between 330 and 350hp.

To draw an analogy here, I think the GTO should be to the Chevelle what the Cobra is to the Mustang. The GTO should feature AT LEAST an LS-2, good for 400+ hp, and should retain the independent rear suspension.

The time has come for the Big 2.5 to quit letting the imports try to muscle in on our muscle-cars! B)

Galaxie

The Galaxie name would be cool , but it doesn't start with F

moving this to general vheicle discussion