If you are buying a new car today...
2/3/16, 06:07 PM
#42
Mach 1 Member
It WAS ignorant because all he simply stated was "I would never buy anything from Government Motors." Why?? Because of their build quality? Because they have a woman GEO? Or because they took a government bailout? I wonder if he banks with any of the tons of banks that took the biggest government bailout ever and then proceeded to give their CEO's massive bonuses. Now THAT'S f*** up. The automotive bailout was microscopic in comparison and the government got a majority of their money back within a few years.
Last edited by 2014GHIGGT; 2/3/16 at 06:09 PM.
2/3/16, 07:24 PM
#43
Hmm, 2 things:
1) Ford is doing very well, and they are "thanking people" by charging how much over sticker for the GT 350 right now? Over $10k ... and you point is?
and
2) Especially when you're in bankruptcy your only worry is paying off your debt (or satisfying the terms of your bankruptcy). Which they did by making a cool car like the Camaro and selling it for as much as the people were willing to pay.
Done.
1) Ford is doing very well, and they are "thanking people" by charging how much over sticker for the GT 350 right now? Over $10k ... and you point is?
and
2) Especially when you're in bankruptcy your only worry is paying off your debt (or satisfying the terms of your bankruptcy). Which they did by making a cool car like the Camaro and selling it for as much as the people were willing to pay.
Done.
GM did go bankrupt. They went bankrupt because they made crappy quality cars for decades, paid workers big money to make crappy quality cars that people were not buying.
GM just went bankrupt and trying to gain support of customers and what better way to do that. Let's charge over MSRP! Come on man. No way. They take billions of tax payers funds, then they want to try to jam it up the tax paying consumer by charging over MSRP??? Hell no
2/3/16, 07:42 PM
#44
Mach 1 Member
I'm holding out, waiting either for Ford to bring out a replacement for the Ranger, or GM to come up with something similar to the S-10. I'd like to have a new truck, although my '08 Dakota hasn't quite hit 45,000 yet. I have no inclination whatsoever to replace my S197; I just want more opportunities to drive it!
2/3/16, 10:54 PM
#45
Legacy TMS Member
Originally Posted by 2011 Kona Blue
My point is Ford asking 10k over MSRP for the 350 is not the same and I'll tell you why. Ford did not just go bankrupt.
GM did go bankrupt. They went bankrupt because they made crappy quality cars for decades, paid workers big money to make crappy quality cars that people were not buying.
GM just went bankrupt and trying to gain support of customers and what better way to do that. Let's charge over MSRP! Come on man. No way. They take billions of tax payers funds, then they want to try to jam it up the tax paying consumer by charging over MSRP??? Hell no
GM did go bankrupt. They went bankrupt because they made crappy quality cars for decades, paid workers big money to make crappy quality cars that people were not buying.
GM just went bankrupt and trying to gain support of customers and what better way to do that. Let's charge over MSRP! Come on man. No way. They take billions of tax payers funds, then they want to try to jam it up the tax paying consumer by charging over MSRP??? Hell no
2/3/16, 11:50 PM
#46
2014 SGM Roush Stage 2 --------- Moderator------
I am right there with you. I know several folks who love GM products, but every GM I have owned has had issues and cost me $$$. Never again. I will stick with Ford or Jeep. Love my JGC's as much as my Mustang. I have never had issues with Fords or Jeeps that wasn't a fault of the operator. (Mostly my kids)
67 Mustang GTA 390 v8
89 Cougar LS 3.8L v6
97 Expedition XLT 5.4L
99 Expedition XLT 5.4L
90 Jeep Cherokee Larado 4.0L
99 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 4.7L
04 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L HO
12 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 5.7L
These have all been fantastic vehicles that I put lots of miles on. Would love to have all of the ones I let go back.
So I would if I were buying today I would get a GT350 or JGC Overland/Summit (but I really want the SRT).
2/4/16, 12:46 AM
#47
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Are you people seriously attempting to debate politics over a Mustang forum? LOL. Maybe I'll post a picture of Hillary Clinton and watch the forum spontaneously combust.
I mean sure, but they're performance cars - some of us are comfortable enough to take the risk 
I really prefer my S197 (2013-2014) over the S550 and the new Camaros. The body just looks so much more aggressive in my opinion. Although the rental car that I currently am using (2013 Impala) has me seriously missing an automatic sedan...still keeping my pony though!
Mods that void the warranty.
I really prefer my S197 (2013-2014) over the S550 and the new Camaros. The body just looks so much more aggressive in my opinion. Although the rental car that I currently am using (2013 Impala) has me seriously missing an automatic sedan...still keeping my pony though!
2/4/16, 04:43 AM
#48
And let's keep the discussion civil, and somewhat relevant . . . and to that end I'm going to move this thread to the 'General Vehicle Discussion' section.
2/4/16, 06:20 AM
#49
Shelby GT350 Member
And like it or not, GM makes some really great vehicles with good fit and finish. I test drove a 2014 ATS the other day and the car was rock solid and felt great. Only complaint is the seats were a bit hard.
2/4/16, 06:34 AM
#50
I Have No Life
Originally Posted by Evil_Capri
Please refrain from name calling.
And let's keep the discussion civil, and somewhat relevant . . . and to that end I'm going to move this thread to the 'General Vehicle Discussion' section.
And let's keep the discussion civil, and somewhat relevant . . . and to that end I'm going to move this thread to the 'General Vehicle Discussion' section.
2/4/16, 07:33 AM
#51
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Join Date: August 2, 2013
Location: Little north of Stuttgart, Germany
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My point is Ford asking 10k over MSRP for the 350 is not the same and I'll tell you why. Ford did not just go bankrupt.
GM did go bankrupt. They went bankrupt because they made crappy quality cars for decades, paid workers big money to make crappy quality cars that people were not buying.
GM just went bankrupt and trying to gain support of customers and what better way to do that. Let's charge over MSRP! Come on man. No way. They take billions of tax payers funds, then they want to try to jam it up the tax paying consumer by charging over MSRP??? Hell no
GM did go bankrupt. They went bankrupt because they made crappy quality cars for decades, paid workers big money to make crappy quality cars that people were not buying.
GM just went bankrupt and trying to gain support of customers and what better way to do that. Let's charge over MSRP! Come on man. No way. They take billions of tax payers funds, then they want to try to jam it up the tax paying consumer by charging over MSRP??? Hell no
OEMs have MANUFACTURER SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE. That's it! DEALERS decide how much to sell for. Please try to wrap your brain around that, your entire logic here is flawed.
2/4/16, 08:14 AM
#52
GM should of made it clear the dealerships will do no such thing to charge over MSRP. Also, please spare me the individual dealership chooses to do that. I don't give a flying crap. GM is Corporate and its GM's product, not a Chevy dealership product. GM can dictate what the dealerships will and won't do. Period, end of story!
Chevrolet dealerships do not manufacturer the car. GM does and it's their show. They dictate things all the time to dealers so spare me the BS about MSRP. GM should of stepped in giving the set of circumstances back then.
Last edited by 2011 Kona Blue; 2/4/16 at 11:07 AM.
2/4/16, 02:53 PM
#53
Roush Forum Stalker
2/4/16, 07:10 PM
#56
Mach 1 Member
If I had the same amount of money for down payment on a new car at this time as I had for my Mustang, I would probably go with the Challenger Scat Pack. Its a car that I love 100%, the new Mustang is like 85% while sometimes I look at it and it just makes me not love it to the fullest. The new Camaro, performance-love it 100%, looks-undecided until I see it in person it has so many body lines its hard to decide in pictures.
If money was no issue, Hellcat or a Z06, maybe GT350? hard to say, all 3 are amazing.
If money was no issue, Hellcat or a Z06, maybe GT350? hard to say, all 3 are amazing.
2/5/16, 07:26 AM
#57
There are so many responses....where to begin.
The dealers price the cars, not the manufacturer. Ford, Chrysler and GM dealers are all guilty of markups on cars. You talk about how bad GM service is, but I've been a GM guy my entire life and have never had an issue getting warranty repairs taken care of. I've even had things fixed for free after warranty because GM felt it was good customer service. Yes, I've had cars with issues, but who hasn't. The Genereal has always gotten my car fixed! The only time they couldn't fix an issue, they sent me away without charging for a six hour service call.
Now, with the '14 GT...I've had the dealership tell me that they won't fix the dreaded engine tick, they won't fix peeling paint on the underside of my hood, and they gave me an attitude about replacing my wheels when the rear axle was found to be bent! Ford's customer service is horrible in comparison to GMs, from my perspective. Also the quality of the fit and finish on the Mustang is not as good as the GM vehicles. I've seen people on these boards make excuses for the car's issues as being an assembly line product. Chevy owners won't accept that as a reason from GM. My Gt has 14k miles on it and the finish is already wearing on the console where my wrist touches behind the shifter.
Someone mentioned the price difference between a '16 base GT and the Camaro. I've done the same comparisons, but you can't take base price to base price. You need to option the GT to match the Camaro SS. In '14, my last comparison, the GT needed the Brembo brake package, at $2200, and a few other options, to equal the SS. When added in, the GT came in about $200 less than a comparably equipped Camaro. Also remember the SS has hood struts and not a prop rod! Personally, the 5th gen never did anything for me so we got the Mustang.
As to the bail out, yes, GM took the money, but they paid it all back and with interest in a very short amount of time. The issue you should have is that the gov't purchased so many shares of stock and then sold all shares before recovering the original share price. That's the investor's fault, not the company's. More gov't waste. Ford got lucky and was on the verge of bankruptcy two years before that and was able to reorganize and renegotiate labor contracts under a good economy. Chrysler and GM felt their pain after the economic collapse. Ford was lucky with their timing.
Lastly, I just recently purchased a new car. We waited for details on the new Camaro, checked out the '16 Mustang and decided on the Charger Scat Pack. The Camaro still has visibility issues that I don't like, the Mustang design still hasn't grown on me and the Charger/Challenger Scat Pack, with about 500hp and 475 torque for $42k is absolutely the best bang for the buck. I now own cars from all manufacturers and I see quality issues with the Charger also. My last new cars were in 2003 and 2006. Did quality go down across the board to keep the costs down and a new GM will be comparable? I don't know.
The dealers price the cars, not the manufacturer. Ford, Chrysler and GM dealers are all guilty of markups on cars. You talk about how bad GM service is, but I've been a GM guy my entire life and have never had an issue getting warranty repairs taken care of. I've even had things fixed for free after warranty because GM felt it was good customer service. Yes, I've had cars with issues, but who hasn't. The Genereal has always gotten my car fixed! The only time they couldn't fix an issue, they sent me away without charging for a six hour service call.
Now, with the '14 GT...I've had the dealership tell me that they won't fix the dreaded engine tick, they won't fix peeling paint on the underside of my hood, and they gave me an attitude about replacing my wheels when the rear axle was found to be bent! Ford's customer service is horrible in comparison to GMs, from my perspective. Also the quality of the fit and finish on the Mustang is not as good as the GM vehicles. I've seen people on these boards make excuses for the car's issues as being an assembly line product. Chevy owners won't accept that as a reason from GM. My Gt has 14k miles on it and the finish is already wearing on the console where my wrist touches behind the shifter.
Someone mentioned the price difference between a '16 base GT and the Camaro. I've done the same comparisons, but you can't take base price to base price. You need to option the GT to match the Camaro SS. In '14, my last comparison, the GT needed the Brembo brake package, at $2200, and a few other options, to equal the SS. When added in, the GT came in about $200 less than a comparably equipped Camaro. Also remember the SS has hood struts and not a prop rod! Personally, the 5th gen never did anything for me so we got the Mustang.
As to the bail out, yes, GM took the money, but they paid it all back and with interest in a very short amount of time. The issue you should have is that the gov't purchased so many shares of stock and then sold all shares before recovering the original share price. That's the investor's fault, not the company's. More gov't waste. Ford got lucky and was on the verge of bankruptcy two years before that and was able to reorganize and renegotiate labor contracts under a good economy. Chrysler and GM felt their pain after the economic collapse. Ford was lucky with their timing.
Lastly, I just recently purchased a new car. We waited for details on the new Camaro, checked out the '16 Mustang and decided on the Charger Scat Pack. The Camaro still has visibility issues that I don't like, the Mustang design still hasn't grown on me and the Charger/Challenger Scat Pack, with about 500hp and 475 torque for $42k is absolutely the best bang for the buck. I now own cars from all manufacturers and I see quality issues with the Charger also. My last new cars were in 2003 and 2006. Did quality go down across the board to keep the costs down and a new GM will be comparable? I don't know.
2/5/16, 08:16 AM
#58
There are so many responses....where to begin.
The dealers price the cars, not the manufacturer. Ford, Chrysler and GM dealers are all guilty of markups on cars. You talk about how bad GM service is, but I've been a GM guy my entire life and have never had an issue getting warranty repairs taken care of. I've even had things fixed for free after warranty because GM felt it was good customer service. Yes, I've had cars with issues, but who hasn't. The Genereal has always gotten my car fixed! The only time they couldn't fix an issue, they sent me away without charging for a six hour service call.
Now, with the '14 GT...I've had the dealership tell me that they won't fix the dreaded engine tick, they won't fix peeling paint on the underside of my hood, and they gave me an attitude about replacing my wheels when the rear axle was found to be bent! Ford's customer service is horrible in comparison to GMs, from my perspective. Also the quality of the fit and finish on the Mustang is not as good as the GM vehicles. I've seen people on these boards make excuses for the car's issues as being an assembly line product. Chevy owners won't accept that as a reason from GM. My Gt has 14k miles on it and the finish is already wearing on the console where my wrist touches behind the shifter.
Someone mentioned the price difference between a '16 base GT and the Camaro. I've done the same comparisons, but you can't take base price to base price. You need to option the GT to match the Camaro SS. In '14, my last comparison, the GT needed the Brembo brake package, at $2200, and a few other options, to equal the SS. When added in, the GT came in about $200 less than a comparably equipped Camaro. Also remember the SS has hood struts and not a prop rod! Personally, the 5th gen never did anything for me so we got the Mustang.
As to the bail out, yes, GM took the money, but they paid it all back and with interest in a very short amount of time. The issue you should have is that the gov't purchased so many shares of stock and then sold all shares before recovering the original share price. That's the investor's fault, not the company's. More gov't waste. Ford got lucky and was on the verge of bankruptcy two years before that and was able to reorganize and renegotiate labor contracts under a good economy. Chrysler and GM felt their pain after the economic collapse. Ford was lucky with their timing.
Lastly, I just recently purchased a new car. We waited for details on the new Camaro, checked out the '16 Mustang and decided on the Charger Scat Pack. The Camaro still has visibility issues that I don't like, the Mustang design still hasn't grown on me and the Charger/Challenger Scat Pack, with about 500hp and 475 torque for $42k is absolutely the best bang for the buck. I now own cars from all manufacturers and I see quality issues with the Charger also. My last new cars were in 2003 and 2006. Did quality go down across the board to keep the costs down and a new GM will be comparable? I don't know.
The dealers price the cars, not the manufacturer. Ford, Chrysler and GM dealers are all guilty of markups on cars. You talk about how bad GM service is, but I've been a GM guy my entire life and have never had an issue getting warranty repairs taken care of. I've even had things fixed for free after warranty because GM felt it was good customer service. Yes, I've had cars with issues, but who hasn't. The Genereal has always gotten my car fixed! The only time they couldn't fix an issue, they sent me away without charging for a six hour service call.
Now, with the '14 GT...I've had the dealership tell me that they won't fix the dreaded engine tick, they won't fix peeling paint on the underside of my hood, and they gave me an attitude about replacing my wheels when the rear axle was found to be bent! Ford's customer service is horrible in comparison to GMs, from my perspective. Also the quality of the fit and finish on the Mustang is not as good as the GM vehicles. I've seen people on these boards make excuses for the car's issues as being an assembly line product. Chevy owners won't accept that as a reason from GM. My Gt has 14k miles on it and the finish is already wearing on the console where my wrist touches behind the shifter.
Someone mentioned the price difference between a '16 base GT and the Camaro. I've done the same comparisons, but you can't take base price to base price. You need to option the GT to match the Camaro SS. In '14, my last comparison, the GT needed the Brembo brake package, at $2200, and a few other options, to equal the SS. When added in, the GT came in about $200 less than a comparably equipped Camaro. Also remember the SS has hood struts and not a prop rod! Personally, the 5th gen never did anything for me so we got the Mustang.
As to the bail out, yes, GM took the money, but they paid it all back and with interest in a very short amount of time. The issue you should have is that the gov't purchased so many shares of stock and then sold all shares before recovering the original share price. That's the investor's fault, not the company's. More gov't waste. Ford got lucky and was on the verge of bankruptcy two years before that and was able to reorganize and renegotiate labor contracts under a good economy. Chrysler and GM felt their pain after the economic collapse. Ford was lucky with their timing.
Lastly, I just recently purchased a new car. We waited for details on the new Camaro, checked out the '16 Mustang and decided on the Charger Scat Pack. The Camaro still has visibility issues that I don't like, the Mustang design still hasn't grown on me and the Charger/Challenger Scat Pack, with about 500hp and 475 torque for $42k is absolutely the best bang for the buck. I now own cars from all manufacturers and I see quality issues with the Charger also. My last new cars were in 2003 and 2006. Did quality go down across the board to keep the costs down and a new GM will be comparable? I don't know.
After GM went bankrupt and took millions of tax payers funds GM should of made it clear to the dealetships under no circumstances are they to charge over MSRP and bottom line, its GM's product. Not the dealerships product. GM was in a rebuild position and gain the trust of the consumer.
2/5/16, 08:36 AM
#59
Mach 1 Member
There is an MSRP for cars and Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan , etc dealerships follow quidlines the manufacturer sets. While each dealership can run how they want , they still are front line representives of the manufacturer and GM sets guidelines.
After GM went bankrupt and took millions of tax payers funds GM should of made it clear to the dealetships under no circumstances are they to charge over MSRP and bottom line, its GM's product. Not the dealerships product. GM was in a rebuild position and gain the trust of the consumer.
After GM went bankrupt and took millions of tax payers funds GM should of made it clear to the dealetships under no circumstances are they to charge over MSRP and bottom line, its GM's product. Not the dealerships product. GM was in a rebuild position and gain the trust of the consumer.
Every item that's a hot buy always sells high the concept of supply and demand in free market, hellcats, camaros, gt350 they all will sell with adjusted markup, dealer buys the cars, sells it for whatever they feel people are willing to pay for a new hot item. Smart people will wait it out and buy for MSRP or even lower.
Last edited by =HYPERDRIVE=; 2/5/16 at 08:47 AM.