TampaBear67

Climate control is very expensive because of the servo motors and the fact that you have to build an electronic "module" that will probably break down before the cables snap on a regular one.

I agree with kevin on this one, climate control in particular is a gadget in my opinion, and I have found that it more of a nuisance in cars that I have driven with it, than the common rotary *****.

I think the best compromise in this situation is for Ford to build a tricked out mercury cougar which has all the high-tech goodies some people are asking for (NAV, HID, heated seats, moonroof, etc). This car would be perfect for the people who think a Mustang is too "juevinle" and want the refined car with all the high end stuff. It would also make people actually want to buy a Mercury [/b][/quote]
There You Go Galaxie, Give Em All the High Tech Goodies, IRS, NAV, HID, heated seats, moonroof, climate control, the Works, and That would be the Perfect "Cougar" For the New Mellinium! And make it look like Top Notch's Cougar, Kinda "Fast and Furious" Modern Not Retro Like the Mustang, To atract "That Crowd" that are more impressed by The Electronics in their Cars, than they are about their Cars Performance, Yet give them the Performance to Match Their Gizmos. Sort of a Mercury G35 Coupe! Heck even if they just called it the Mercury XR7, that would even add to it's Image.

Robert

I disagree. Subdividing it off into another category doesn't help people who WANT a Mustang that offers a few more creature comforts. It also makes no sense to spend the money on a whole new design just to create a more upscale Mustang! You add development costs while diluting your brand nameplate at the same time.

BMW has several 3-Series models, up to and including the M3. They didn't come up with a whole new car design to satisfy those who want performance AND luxury. They merely tricked out the 3-Series to the max and called it the M3.

Look, here's the thing, folks: this new Mustang is much closer to being world class than any previous generation Stang since 1970. Many people LOVE the modern/retro interpretation of the car's design, and an upscale SE version (costing maybe 5K more) would probably sell to those people with money who always wanted/or want a Mustang, but also want a little more luxury because they can only justify one car.

In a global market, Ford needs to get in the game if they want to become profitable again.

TampaBear67

Well, I posted this in another Topic but it seems to apply here also.

You want to talk Hight Tech? I just got my copy of BMW Magazine and there is an article in there about BMW's new TeleService.

Source: BMW Magazine, Issue 3-2004

Who but BMW Could Create a Car that Calls for Service on it's Own.

Imagine getting a call from your Service Advisor, saying, "Your car has notified us that it will neeed new brake linings within the next two months. When would you like to schedule an appointmentr and a loaner car?"

If you have a 2004 5 Series or 6 Series, don't be suprised when it happens-because both come with BMW's TeleService. This Revolutionary new feature uses wireless technology to connect your car's computer to BMW's computer network.

When your BMW senses that it will soon need an oil change, a new micro Filter, brake linings, or fluids, or various other wear items, BMW's unique TeleService feature automaticaly transmits this data to your prefered BMW center.

TeleService is also utilized whenever you call for Roadside Assistance or BMW Customer Relations. (In fact, did you know you can even request a service apppointment through your iDrive system? TeleService then relays all data to your Service Advisor.)

TeleService saves you time, as well. By alerting your Service Advisor exactly what work needs to be done, all replacement parts are ordered in advance, ready to be installed. And with BMW Full Maintenance now standard, most parts and labor are free of charge for 4 years/50,000 miles.

TeleService: one more reason why BMW remains a technological leader.

wantan05

I don't know about that teleservice. Isn't that how computers start to take over and then start firing our nukes everywhere?! :shock:

kevinb120

330hp with NO room to mod it at all(they are very delicate engines if you go beyond factory specs) is silly. 57k for 330 hp is rediculous. M3 convertible should run about 38k tops for what you get. Again you are pricing the car out of its range. A 59,000 mustang with 500hp and all the electronic goodies allong with irs and big brakes, etc would be a bargain. Everyone wants 40k in options for 25k, and THEN wants money off of MSRP Your on the wrong car. Most of the people that persue a lot of these arguements are not even in the market for any new car right now. Sorry but the C6 Z06 will handilly pound these cars for much less money, they arent even close per dollar. Time will tell how much the DCX sedans will cut into BMW and Merc entry sedans. People that buy sub 6/7 levels of BMW's is because they can not afford higher models, and want to look flashy, no other reason. The 300 targets the 'look at me' buyers perfectly for less money. Not to mention that a lot of those 50k+ cars are going to have a lot of trouble staying in front of a pickup truck in the near future. I will also bet on the Shelby V10 roadster(or coupe) against a bmw as well in 07.

As far as proffit, something tells me ford will make more money with a 15 to 1 ratio of sales of coupes. Someone told me the other day that Nissan makes more proffit per unit on Titan then F-series. They havent even sold 16 days of F-series production yet since it was offered to the public, something tells me their math might be a little off.

kevinb120

It all boils down to this, Mustang is not about wasting money on trinkets, its about performance for dollar. And for people that are true drivers that do not need gizmos. YOU ARE ON THE WRONG CAR. It will make no difference that these cars do not have them and it will continue to dominate the 2 door market. Expect a 150% increase in sales per year over 03 models. The standard modes do not need nor will have this crap, its as simple as that. Hiding behind gimicks is for Nissan and Scion.

A Lincoln or Mercury 2 door hot-rod is primed for gizmos, not Mustangs.


Mustang owners are prided on adding their own gizmos and modifications and wheels, they just want a good base because a ton of stuff is gonna get changed by thier owners anyway. I can see why Ford didnt bother with 18's because when you come hang out, your only running stockers anyway. You havent done anything to your car yet if the wheels are still stock issue. Mustang enthusiast owners want just enough stuff thats too much of a PITA to change that works well, then you can start building your one of a kind car. Go to a club meet of 200+ people and try to find two identical mustangs. Mustang owners are much more diverse then Toyota owners who take pride flaunting the gold emblem package on their 4cyl hubcap camrys. You do realize that a loaded Scion Tc will begin to touch Mustang GT pricing? I just priced one out at 23,900 with 160 hp. woot.

BlackRiderX

The new window feature has been around for a while on more expensive vehicles. I think it's called "Indexing". A few people have posted on other boards that when the windows come back up , after you sit down and shut the door, that the windows get a better seal to prevent water from leaking in. I wouldn't mind having it considering my 99 and my 02 leaked pretty bad.

I don't like navigation units though. It's like putting a computer that is going to be outdated in 2 weeks in your car. I wouldn't be able to stand looking at it a few years down the road.

kevinb120

Here is a celica GTS with 6 speed and a whopper 180hp/130 tq. It only has the 6 speed and moon to be different then a mustang. I did add floormats and the upgrade stereo(still only equal to the standard shaker) and some interior bits for an 'interior upgrade package'. Sounds like a bargain to me.
No nav or anything like that either, they do not offer it.

kevinb120

Accord coupe with nav(you have to get it to get the other optons. 240hp/212tq 3.0 manual tranny $29400.

RSX no no nav manual with whopper 210hp/140tq and most goodies $26,600

Heres a holy moly 235hp/214tq 330ci manual( a car the 05 will handilly beat). NO nav, hids or any non-mustang options. Ony leaather/sport package(10hp and suspension mods/wheels) and aero kit, everything else is basics(there are $10,000 more in available options). ANYONE can build an expensive car, it takes no effort for that.

kevinb120

Last but not least I loaded an M3 COUPE. 330hp/240 torque. Has all the gizmos, but since this is a performance car, we will have to measure it against SVT's next offereing on that basis. at 45k it has practically no options, EVERYTHING is extra.

At under 40k loaded it would be a great car., albiet a little weak in the power department. I think this is a little silly as it sits now.

Galaxie

I disagree as well... building a cougar won't dilute the Mustang brand, and it won't contribute to huge development costs, reskin the body, add IRS, raise the price, BINGO you have another car for another segment.

If anything, i doubt it would take many sales from Mustang, but it would help Mercury's image BIG TIME

In my opinion the Mustang is almost everything to everyone, there is such a range in models and prices that maybe it would be a good idea to build a different model for the upscale crowd.

Radman

Can't believe everybody takes this stuff so seriously. Each person is entitled to his or her own opinion so no need for people to take this stuff personally. My opinion? I'd love the moonroof, make it a stand-alone option, not a package deal. that way everyone could be happy. On the other hand, it doesn't really bother me that it's not available. I'll have the dealer find someone local to do it for about the same cost. HID's would be nice. Yes they're more expensive, they could be a stand alone option as well. 800-1000 bucks seems to be the norm. I like them because I feel they are a safety feature, you see more without blinding the guy coming the other way. Again, it doesn't bother me too much that it's not an option. Maybe it will someday. I can always retrofit if they offer it in the next year or two. Heated seats? They'd be nice, but oh well. Auto-off headlights? Huge oversight on Ford's part IMO. Anybody know how difficult that is to add? It shouldn't be computer controlled, just an electrical timer. If anyone wants to make some money, make an aftermarket kit. I'd buy one. NAV, get one aftermarket with a pull out LCD. This way, your kids can watch movies. DVD player for the back? Walmart makes a nifty portable unit with 2 screens so you only need the one unit for however many cars you have. It's 200 bucks. Flame away if you want. You won't hurt my feelings. I'm a big boy, I can take it. If it makes you feel better, have at it .

Jason

kevinb120

I disagree as well... building a cougar won't dilute the Mustang brand, and it won't contribute to huge development costs, reskin the body, add IRS, raise the price, BINGO you have another car for another segment.

If anything, i doubt it would take many sales from Mustang, but it would help Mercury's image BIG TIME

In my opinion the Mustang is almost everything to everyone, there is such a range in models and prices that maybe it would be a good idea to build a different model for the upscale crowd. [/b][/quote]
They definately could use a real cougar.

Robert

Weak in the power department???

The M3 will do 0-60 in 4.8 seconds, mate, handily dispatching the '05 Mustang GT. Explain to me how a car with only a six in it, and approximately the same weight, is about .4 seconds faster than the new '05 GT (assuming the 0-60 in 5.2 second figure is accurate)? Maybe it has to do with...technology again?

The next gen M3 will have a V8 in it, rumored to be good for 400 bhp. You'll NEED the SVT Cobra to beat it then.

And speaking of beating, you keep beating me over the head with the price equation. I've covered this over and over again. A basic Mustang appeals to the core constituents, granted. But if you want to expand the market share of this vehicle (thereby competing more directly with the imports who are kicking Ford's butt in sales http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosins...tos-231621.htm), then you need to provide a slightly more upscale version

Please explain to me the rationale for providing additional luxo features like climate control and heated seats in an "upscale" F-150 - a PICKUP TRUCK targeted at blue collar America - but not in the Mustang, one of America's two remaining premeire sport coupes??! Someone on Ford's Mahogany Row is smoking crack!

As for modding - I have little desire to make major mods that:

1) Devalue the car
2) Void the warranty
3) Add rattles and squeaks

BlackRiderX

I wouldn't use the car for traveling so a nav system would be worthless to me. For the price that most companies are charging for navigation from the factory you can get a better version via the aftermarket.

I, like many others I'm sure, agree that it would be great to have H.I.D. lighting. Speaking of gizmos, it makes me wonder how much cash was spent developing and configuring the multi-color gauges .....

I don't see why anyone has a problem with more options for the car. As a lot of people on another board I visit say, "everything above the base car is Cadillac money." If someone wants to price a Nissan 350Z or C6 with an addition 10K in options it's their business IMO. It shouldn't detract from your enjoyment of buying a "base" car because you don't get, or afford, all the goodies. If it doesthan you are buying the wrong type of vehicle in the first place!

Robert

Everything you've just described costs A LOT more money for a financially strapped company like Ford than just adding a few more options to a GREAT existing platform!

Remember too that Ford has other new models planned, and maybe that new sports car too, so a Cougar seems very unlikely to me. And besides, I don't WANT a Cougar, I want a Mustang. They make a V6 for the lower end market, why can't they add a few more luxury options for the higher end market, just above the GT?

Again, as some have suggested, maybe they will.

VillianousBlak

What I want is a T-Top option!

Wombert

Climate control is very expensive because of the servo motors and the fact that you have to build an electronic "module" that will probably break down before the cables snap on a regular one.

I agree with kevin on this one, climate control in particular is a gadget in my opinion, and I have found that it more of a nuisance in cars that I have driven with it, than the common rotary *****. [/b][/quote]
Uh... what servo motors?

Climate control is essentially an automatic air conditioner. All you need to upgrade an A/C to a climate control is a temperature sensor, a small display, some buttons to set temp etc, and a 5$ computer chip to control it...

kevinb120

OMFG how on earth can you POSSIBLY NOT understand that COMPARING AN M3 TO AN MUSTANG IS STUPID. Thats the point. actually 4.8 in a stang would only cost about 1000 bucks if that. The next SVT will destroy the M3 for 20k less. The Next Z06 will for much less as well. The gt is bargain basement cheap for 27k well equipped.

kevinb120

Ford is not that strapped. They have more new product coming then any other automaker on the planet.


I would also love for Ford to offer a $50k uber stang.