rhumb

This is basically what I read into it, that yeah, it could be -- but without a wink wink, nod nod that it is what they are planning on. Any time and money spent on the old Trinity is just that much not being invested in the Coyote/Voodoo, a newer and more efficient motor more in tune with the needs of the future (less stink and thirst). If the newer Euro TT V8s are any indication, that route can deliver immense power and performance. Looking at a recent C&D with 3 super sedans, all 3 do mid-11 quarters at over 120 mph despite their portly weights approaching 4,500 lbs. Trim a half ton off and just imagine what numbers would result.

My guess is that if the Trinity does carry over, it would be a stop-gap motor for the GT500 until they get a TT Coyote on line and after they develop the flat-crank Voodoo motor for a GT350.

Automatic 5.0

I predict the new Shelby will get 6.3 litres and forced air for over 700 horsepower.

mustang_lurkers

I agree with you that the GT500 with the "Trinity" engine will carry on only for a couple of years similar to how the 94/95 mustangs carried over with the old 302 engine before being replaced by the 4.6 mod motor. I do think the "Vodoo engine will come but it will come in a GT350 and the GT350 will be a car staged to compete against the Z-28 which the GT500 is not. The GT500 competes against the ZL1. I think the GT500 will carry on for a couple of years and then be dropped then their will be a GT350 and a Mustang Mach 1.

mustang_lurkers

I don't buy the theory that the "Trinity" engine will go away because of a lack of efficiency. It avoids the gas guzzler tax and is rated at 15/24 mpg. The Nissan Skyline GTR weighs less than a GT500 and has a very advanced V/6 twin turbo engine and it is rated at 16/23 mpg. By comparison a coyote 5.0 in the current body style mustang is rated at 15/26 mpg so I am really not buying the ecoboost efficiency angle when it comes to the SVT mustangs. If you compare the difference between the ecoboost F150 and the F150 with the 5.0 engine the ecoboost gets 2mpg better mpg with about 60hp and 40ftlb trq less than the V-8. Ford needs to make their CAFE requirements but they are not going to be made by fuel savings with a niche car. Yes these are only my opinions but their is no logic to discontinue the "Trinity" engine yet and no one has offered up any valid counter argument. This is a discussion post and I would expect to find more people who are willing to debate such an interesting topic...

Overboost

Isn't Trinity based on the 5.4? If so, how many vehicles still use that engine? Navigator, Expedition, and what else? Maybe 35-40k a year, including the SVT. Now, how many Coyote engines are out there? F150, Mustang both use it, and they probably sell 20% of each with it. That alone makes it more cost effective to use a newer block that's more common, so you can reduce the number of components you have to source. This is a common practice in manufacturing. Instead of a large number of small volume items, commonize it with a volume item and it makes more financial sense. Ford has done this for years with engines, hence the reason the V6 and V8 are in the Mustang now. Look at GM with the LS engines.

There's your educated point, not some half *** tinfoil hat theory that makes you feel warm at night.

BlueDiamond

What is your theory on how and why Ford decided to bore and significantly
enhance the 5.4 to the 5.8, r&d, re-certify etc for just a 2 year run for the 13/14 GT500?
Just curious.

mustang_lurkers

The Trinity is based on the 5.4L and the 5.4L is also still used in the E series commercial van which is a fleet vehicle that accounts for a lot of bulk sales. Keep in mind the coyote is a modular engine also and it is not difficult for ford to retool assembly lines to make different modular engines so it only takes a few hours to change engine production. I agree that the "Trinity" will go away just not for a couple more years. You are also right producing one V-8 engine is cheaper from a production standpoint and you can dress it up or down for different hp ratings as you like. This is a much better argument for the "Trinity" to go away instead of saying it is because it doesn't fit or because of mpg efficiency. I think the "Trinty" will stay until Ford makes a direct injection twin turbo "voodoo" engine sans flat plane crank. I would be just as happy with a twin turbo 600+hp voodoo engine without a flat plane crank but I don't think Ford has it yet and I don't think they will sideline their top of the line mustang to wait for it. This isn't win or lose/right or wrong it is just an opinion and if I am wrong pushing the button on a brand new SVT mustang of any name will be a nice concilation prize

Overboost

E series vans are dead, making way for the full size Transit vans. Say what you want, but the 5.4/5.8 is on borrowed time. It's a relic, and it's time to move forward. I'm sure the changes from the 5.4 Condor to 5.8 Trinity were considered when the change from iron to aluminum block took place in 2011MY. You tend to plan these things ahead when capital investments are in play. Then again, I'm not an SVT engineer, so I don't know how that whole thought process went down. I'd love to know though...

mustang_lurkers

Overboost

Based on the small amount of info we have on the new car, I have a feeling they're going to shift their focus of the car away from the S197. It'll be interesting to see where they take the lineup in the next year or two. I think you'll be waiting til 2016 for an SVT product. I don't argue Trinity is a great motor, but I don't expect to see it under the hood of S550 at all.

2k7gtcs

I'd buy one in a Raptor

dmichaels

Sounds like it will be more like the Boss engine. I heard in the AM interview at the NY premier in talking with the chief engineer that the redline was not being bumped up, but the improvements would result in increased power. If that is true, which would sound reasonable, the engine will be a bit stronger, but likely have the capability of being tuned more aggressively. I might be slightly jealous of it - we'll see when it comes out.

Ibnzmonkey

This has now been sig'd just in case you are wrong.

Overboost

I'll eat crow if Ford sells one with a Trinity in it, but I like my chances in this argument.

Falc'man

Some food for thought.

Australia's "Miami" V8 found in the FPVs is rated at 335kW (450hp) but everyone knows that's heavily under rated. That figure is what it does at the wheels and our dynos here in Aus account for more driveline loss than what you're used to in the US.

With the advent of the latest VF Commodore HSV released it's GTS with GM's LSA. That was rated at 430kW (or 575hp).

But on the same dyno it got flogged by the Coyote-based 5.0 Miami both in stock and tuned form (see below). They both have the same size blowers, but Ford's V8 is way in front on efficiency. If LSA is a true 575hp then what does that make the meek Miami?

The point is the Coyote can punch even harder with a larger blower - or.... a couple of snails - to match or better Trinity. With Ecoboost technology it would mean Ford's "world's most powerful production V8" title would be under no threat.





*Note: it says it's gear 5 used in the HSV but that's a typo. The speed confirms it's 4th.

bob

That would be AWESOME! big inch forced induction engines are sweet.


To bad Ford doesn't have anything in their inventory that would fit in a Mustang and fill the bill.

conv_stang

The V6 Ecoboost only is rated at 20 hp less than the F150 5.0....F150 5.0 is not rated the same as the Mustang's engine. And 2 mpg makes all the difference. With CAFE requirements going up, if they can get 2-3 more MPG then you better believe they will change niche vehicle or not. It means millions of dollars for Ford. The 5.8 is a great engine, not doubting that. But it is a Mustang only engine and that makes it expensive. Last i checked not V8 sounded like a 4 cylinder no matter what type of crank it has in it. Like it or not Ecoboost makes more power, is more efficient and lighter than the 5.8. Have you ever heard a turbo 5.0? Sounds just like a 5.0. And no counter arguement? Everything Ford is doing now is a counter arguement to what you want. Easy to make changes to make it fit? Only a few hours to change the tooling for a different engine? Are you 10? As tall as the Trinity is to make it fit Ford will have to spend millions designing headers, motor mounts, pulley drive system, suspension system changes, new hood, crash testing etc...they will have to lower the enging enough which changes CoG, suspension travel, accessory drive clearance etc. They cant just drop a huge hood on it because of regulations against hood height for vision and pedestrian safety. And the 2013-14 Shelby owners didn't buy that car for the Trinity engine....they bought if for the 662 hp and 600+ lb.ft or torque....which is easitly obtained bolting any available SC on the 5.0

Dave07997S

My prediction is that the Ecoboost engines will make in the 130-140hp/litre, putting the 5.0L engine in the 660+hp range. I don't think they will go with the Trinity motor, why should they? If you look at the 2.3L Ecoboost at 305hp that is 136hp/litre, extrapolate that out and you get the above number.

Not to mention the torque this engine would make from just off idle all the way to redline.

BMW with the new M3/4 will make 430+hp with just 3.0Ls of motor, just over 140hp/litre. This totally seems feasible.

Dave

mustang_lurkers

No need for insults. It is just an opinion. See below.


manufacturing plant protocol, "Modular", where the plant and its tooling could be changed out in a matter of hours to manufacture different versions of the engine family


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine

mustang_lurkers

Flat Plane V8 sounds like a 4cyl with big fart can muffler.