Speed Limiter
6/4/13, 06:30 PM
#1
Mach 1 Member
Thread Starter
Speed Limiter
The Question comes to mind. Can a shop remove a speed limiter on a 2013 V6 Mustang? I am having a one piece Drive shaft installed and wondered if a dedicated tuner is needed or do most shops have a way of removing the 114 limiter?
6/4/13, 06:43 PM
#2
Cobra Member
Are you sure you have one. My understanding is that the speed limiter is there for the cars that have the high profile 17" wheels with T spec tires. I suspect your performance package included different wheels and tires and believe you may not have a limiter programmed in.
6/4/13, 07:51 PM
#3
Mach 1 Member
Thread Starter
Are you sure you have one. My understanding is that the speed limiter is there for the cars that have the high profile 17" wheels with T spec tires. I suspect your performance package included different wheels and tires and believe you may not have a limiter programmed in.
Good question, Not sure if I have the limiter, however I don't recall reading anywhere the the Performance package did not have the same shaft. So my thoughts are all 3.7L mustangs have the limiter.
6/4/13, 08:36 PM
#4
Cobra Member
As I mentioned earlier, I believe it is the tires that are the issue. Tires that have a speed rating of T are not supposed to be driven as sustained speeds greater than 118 MPH. That is what they put on the 17" wheels. I believe your performance package included 19" 40 series tires and I can't imagine they are T rated.
6/4/13, 11:39 PM
#5
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You may be able to bring it to the dealer with proof that you have a durable one-piece aluminum drive shaft. The reason I say that is because the car is made to stop accelerating at 111 MPH (give or take) because of the drive shaft. The stock V6 drive shaft can literally explode while driving faster than 120 MPH.
If you replace your drive shaft to a one-piece (which you said you were going to) and get either a tune from AM/another shop/dealer to remove the speed limiter, I think you'll be fine. But give your dealer a call, it never hurts to ask.
If you replace your drive shaft to a one-piece (which you said you were going to) and get either a tune from AM/another shop/dealer to remove the speed limiter, I think you'll be fine. But give your dealer a call, it never hurts to ask.
Last edited by Doiz; 6/4/13 at 11:40 PM.
6/5/13, 08:25 AM
#6
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6/5/13, 11:29 AM
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You may be able to bring it to the dealer with proof that you have a durable one-piece aluminum drive shaft. The reason I say that is because the car is made to stop accelerating at 111 MPH (give or take) because of the drive shaft. The stock V6 drive shaft can literally explode while driving faster than 120 MPH. A video of that here
If you replace your drive shaft to a one-piece (which you said you were going to) and get either a tune from AM/another shop/dealer to remove the speed limiter, I think you'll be fine. But give your dealer a call, it never hurts to ask.
If you replace your drive shaft to a one-piece (which you said you were going to) and get either a tune from AM/another shop/dealer to remove the speed limiter, I think you'll be fine. But give your dealer a call, it never hurts to ask.
Bullitt with the 4.6L is limited at 151 and it uses the two piece shaft.
Here's some notes from an engineer that used to post here referring to the GT, talking about the 'driveline system' and the factory 2 piece. Note what he says about staying well below the speed that could put things into 'resonance':
"The post mentions high speed and 160mph - The Mustang (as it leaves AAI) is speed limited well below that for a reason. Like I said before, I do not know specifics about the dynotech piece, what it does or does not do. I do know about the 2-piece in the factory car. It is a fairly robust piece. Vibration is not an issue unless the centerbearing shims are not installed properly, the shaft has a balance issue or the pinion angle is off. These would be quality issues (that I'm not aware of having in production), not design. The 2-pc has no roll in whether or not you have a random vibration. U-joint angles, run-out (flange or shaft), balance and system modal (resonance) response govern vibration.
****************************
The 2-piece driveshaft is required to meet internal engineering requirements for safe operation at max vehicle speed. Basically, it is designed to provide a driveline system resonance well above what the speed limiter will allow you to operate at. If you put your driveline into resonance, bad things may happen! I've seen what it does to a car and it isn't pretty.
The driveshaft CV joints are required components on this type of driveshaft when combined with a live axle. If the rear suspension were IRS, simple flex couplings would be used (look at the new Camaro, Challenger, etc...) and would make for a lighter driveshaft.
The driveshaft also has an internal torsional damper (ITD) which is solely there to attenuate axle whine. If package allowed, the ITD would be mounted on the exterior of the driveshaft as a much lighter ring design. Since the equivalent inertia is required out of the smaller diameter part when installed inside the driveshaft, the mass has to increase. So, you get a heavier ITD vs a lightweight ETD.
A single piece steel or aluminum 1-piece would have to be larger in diameter than the current package allows. Basically, you would have contact with the fuel tank at full rear suspension jounce. 1-piece carbon fiber was explored at one time...
Hope this helps.
***********************
I would not assume an aftermarket piece "solves" a problem. Yes, you can stuff a massive driveshaft into the tunnel but it will not meet standard vehicle engineering requirements. Our requirements take many factors into account, with the biggest one being your personal safety under a wide variety of operating conditions. Our parts are engineered to work in one big system. Aftermarket parts are generally not engineered. By this, I mean that they are designed to fit properly (usually) and improve one or two attributes specific to your application.
For example, if you want a lighter weight driveshaft that gives you less rotating inertia, you can buy this aluminum 1-pc driveshaft. But, that's all you get - lighter weight. Not proven durability, safety (how does the driveshaft react in a rear impact?, clearance to other parts like the fuel tank?), NVH, ride (driveshaft plunge force actually affects your ride quality), etc...
But that's the great part about it being your car. You get to decide what you want your Mustang to be. Just be cautious and think about how these parts may affect the rest of your driving experience, safety and wallet if it breaks or breaks something else in the car."
Last edited by cdynaco; 6/5/13 at 11:31 AM.
6/5/13, 11:39 AM
#8
Cobra R Member
The GT technically has a 3 piece driveshaft, totaly diff from the v6 2pc
The aluminum drive shaft is still 2 pieces ppl just call it a "1 piece" because of the way it looks.. the joint is off to one side instead of in the middle
also replacing the steel driveshaft with an aluminum one makes a big difference on the v6 because it's so much lighter.
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The aluminum drive shaft is still 2 pieces ppl just call it a "1 piece" because of the way it looks.. the joint is off to one side instead of in the middle
also replacing the steel driveshaft with an aluminum one makes a big difference on the v6 because it's so much lighter.
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Last edited by cinque35; 6/5/13 at 12:05 PM.
6/8/13, 10:53 AM
#10
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Here's my thought on the V6 driveshaft being the reason for the speed limiter setting. I don't discount the technical aspects discussed above. But how the heck does the driveshaft know or care what speed you're going? It cares about what speed it's going, and the power/torque it's seeing, doesn't it?
Say you have 3.31s like me. (All numbers are just approximate, for show.) If you're going 20mph in first or 113mph in sixth, the driveshaft is seeing the same thing. Or let's use the max torque range. What's the diff to the driveshaft if you're doing 30mph in first or 160mph lol in sixth? Could do the same thing with hp, but that gets even more ridiculous into fantasy.
Bottom line: I just don't believe the driveshaft is the reason for the limiter setting. Regardless of the driveshaft's quality or lack thereof. "They" may say it is, I've heard all sorts of things. Go to the track. If it's a twisty track with short to medium straightaways, and there's a stock-ish V8 Mustang there (there always is...), you'll probably come to the conclusion it's about marketing.
Say you have 3.31s like me. (All numbers are just approximate, for show.) If you're going 20mph in first or 113mph in sixth, the driveshaft is seeing the same thing. Or let's use the max torque range. What's the diff to the driveshaft if you're doing 30mph in first or 160mph lol in sixth? Could do the same thing with hp, but that gets even more ridiculous into fantasy.
Bottom line: I just don't believe the driveshaft is the reason for the limiter setting. Regardless of the driveshaft's quality or lack thereof. "They" may say it is, I've heard all sorts of things. Go to the track. If it's a twisty track with short to medium straightaways, and there's a stock-ish V8 Mustang there (there always is...), you'll probably come to the conclusion it's about marketing.
Last edited by cfraser; 6/8/13 at 10:54 AM.
6/8/13, 11:25 AM
#11
Tasca Super Boss 429 Member
Maybe you need to do some additional research
Find out more about driveshafts please.
Here's my thought on the V6 driveshaft being the reason for the speed limiter setting. I don't discount the technical aspects discussed above. But how the heck does the driveshaft know or care what speed you're going? It cares about what speed it's going, and the power/torque it's seeing, doesn't it?
Say you have 3.31s like me. (All numbers are just approximate, for show.) If you're going 20mph in first or 113mph in sixth, the driveshaft is seeing the same thing. Or let's use the max torque range. What's the diff to the driveshaft if you're doing 30mph in first or 160mph lol in sixth? Could do the same thing with hp, but that gets even more ridiculous into fantasy.
Bottom line: I just don't believe the driveshaft is the reason for the limiter setting. Regardless of the driveshaft's quality or lack thereof. "They" may say it is, I've heard all sorts of things. Go to the track. If it's a twisty track with short to medium straightaways, and there's a stock-ish V8 Mustang there (there always is...), you'll probably come to the conclusion it's about marketing.
Say you have 3.31s like me. (All numbers are just approximate, for show.) If you're going 20mph in first or 113mph in sixth, the driveshaft is seeing the same thing. Or let's use the max torque range. What's the diff to the driveshaft if you're doing 30mph in first or 160mph lol in sixth? Could do the same thing with hp, but that gets even more ridiculous into fantasy.
Bottom line: I just don't believe the driveshaft is the reason for the limiter setting. Regardless of the driveshaft's quality or lack thereof. "They" may say it is, I've heard all sorts of things. Go to the track. If it's a twisty track with short to medium straightaways, and there's a stock-ish V8 Mustang there (there always is...), you'll probably come to the conclusion it's about marketing.
Last edited by karman; 6/8/13 at 06:54 PM.
6/8/13, 12:01 PM
#12
Cobra Member
Here is what is wrong with your analysis. Your tires rotate a given number of times per mile (regardless of speed) and your rear axle ratio does not change. Therefore, in order for your speed in MPH to change, the number of drive shaft rotations per minute MUST change. In my 2014 V6 with stock auto gears and 2.73 rear end, my drive shaft is rotating 675 times per minute to produce 20 MPH in first gear with the engine RPMs at 2,815. It is rotating 3,814 times per minute to produce 113 MPH in sixth gear with the engine RPMs at 2,632. It would still be rotating at 3,814 to produce 113 MPH in fifth gear, but the engine RPMs would be 3,281. The transmission gear ratio steps drive shaft RPMs down (or up, in higher gears) from engine RPMs.
Last edited by tukatz; 6/8/13 at 05:40 PM.
6/18/17, 07:30 AM
#13
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I would say its the one piece shaft that one has to worry about because it is not part of Ford's engineered system. Perhaps the 2 piece on the V6 is not as strong as the one on the V8, but there are other factors that Ford is considering to keep the limiter so low. The V6 may have 300 horses, but other components are obviously not 'high speed'.
Bullitt with the 4.6L is limited at 151 and it uses the two piece shaft.
Here's some notes from an engineer that used to post here referring to the GT, talking about the 'driveline system' and the factory 2 piece. Note what he says about staying well below the speed that could put things into 'resonance':
"The post mentions high speed and 160mph - The Mustang (as it leaves AAI) is speed limited well below that for a reason. Like I said before, I do not know specifics about the dynotech piece, what it does or does not do. I do know about the 2-piece in the factory car. It is a fairly robust piece. Vibration is not an issue unless the centerbearing shims are not installed properly, the shaft has a balance issue or the pinion angle is off. These would be quality issues (that I'm not aware of having in production), not design. The 2-pc has no roll in whether or not you have a random vibration. U-joint angles, run-out (flange or shaft), balance and system modal (resonance) response govern vibration.
****************************
The 2-piece driveshaft is required to meet internal engineering requirements for safe operation at max vehicle speed. Basically, it is designed to provide a driveline system resonance well above what the speed limiter will allow you to operate at. If you put your driveline into resonance, bad things may happen! I've seen what it does to a car and it isn't pretty.
The driveshaft CV joints are required components on this type of driveshaft when combined with a live axle. If the rear suspension were IRS, simple flex couplings would be used (look at the new Camaro, Challenger, etc...) and would make for a lighter driveshaft.
The driveshaft also has an internal torsional damper (ITD) which is solely there to attenuate axle whine. If package allowed, the ITD would be mounted on the exterior of the driveshaft as a much lighter ring design. Since the equivalent inertia is required out of the smaller diameter part when installed inside the driveshaft, the mass has to increase. So, you get a heavier ITD vs a lightweight ETD.
A single piece steel or aluminum 1-piece would have to be larger in diameter than the current package allows. Basically, you would have contact with the fuel tank at full rear suspension jounce. 1-piece carbon fiber was explored at one time...
Hope this helps.
***********************
I would not assume an aftermarket piece "solves" a problem. Yes, you can stuff a massive driveshaft into the tunnel but it will not meet standard vehicle engineering requirements. Our requirements take many factors into account, with the biggest one being your personal safety under a wide variety of operating conditions. Our parts are engineered to work in one big system. Aftermarket parts are generally not engineered. By this, I mean that they are designed to fit properly (usually) and improve one or two attributes specific to your application.
For example, if you want a lighter weight driveshaft that gives you less rotating inertia, you can buy this aluminum 1-pc driveshaft. But, that's all you get - lighter weight. Not proven durability, safety (how does the driveshaft react in a rear impact?, clearance to other parts like the fuel tank?), NVH, ride (driveshaft plunge force actually affects your ride quality), etc...
But that's the great part about it being your car. You get to decide what you want your Mustang to be. Just be cautious and think about how these parts may affect the rest of your driving experience, safety and wallet if it breaks or breaks something else in the car."
Bullitt with the 4.6L is limited at 151 and it uses the two piece shaft.
Here's some notes from an engineer that used to post here referring to the GT, talking about the 'driveline system' and the factory 2 piece. Note what he says about staying well below the speed that could put things into 'resonance':
"The post mentions high speed and 160mph - The Mustang (as it leaves AAI) is speed limited well below that for a reason. Like I said before, I do not know specifics about the dynotech piece, what it does or does not do. I do know about the 2-piece in the factory car. It is a fairly robust piece. Vibration is not an issue unless the centerbearing shims are not installed properly, the shaft has a balance issue or the pinion angle is off. These would be quality issues (that I'm not aware of having in production), not design. The 2-pc has no roll in whether or not you have a random vibration. U-joint angles, run-out (flange or shaft), balance and system modal (resonance) response govern vibration.
****************************
The 2-piece driveshaft is required to meet internal engineering requirements for safe operation at max vehicle speed. Basically, it is designed to provide a driveline system resonance well above what the speed limiter will allow you to operate at. If you put your driveline into resonance, bad things may happen! I've seen what it does to a car and it isn't pretty.
The driveshaft CV joints are required components on this type of driveshaft when combined with a live axle. If the rear suspension were IRS, simple flex couplings would be used (look at the new Camaro, Challenger, etc...) and would make for a lighter driveshaft.
The driveshaft also has an internal torsional damper (ITD) which is solely there to attenuate axle whine. If package allowed, the ITD would be mounted on the exterior of the driveshaft as a much lighter ring design. Since the equivalent inertia is required out of the smaller diameter part when installed inside the driveshaft, the mass has to increase. So, you get a heavier ITD vs a lightweight ETD.
A single piece steel or aluminum 1-piece would have to be larger in diameter than the current package allows. Basically, you would have contact with the fuel tank at full rear suspension jounce. 1-piece carbon fiber was explored at one time...
Hope this helps.
***********************
I would not assume an aftermarket piece "solves" a problem. Yes, you can stuff a massive driveshaft into the tunnel but it will not meet standard vehicle engineering requirements. Our requirements take many factors into account, with the biggest one being your personal safety under a wide variety of operating conditions. Our parts are engineered to work in one big system. Aftermarket parts are generally not engineered. By this, I mean that they are designed to fit properly (usually) and improve one or two attributes specific to your application.
For example, if you want a lighter weight driveshaft that gives you less rotating inertia, you can buy this aluminum 1-pc driveshaft. But, that's all you get - lighter weight. Not proven durability, safety (how does the driveshaft react in a rear impact?, clearance to other parts like the fuel tank?), NVH, ride (driveshaft plunge force actually affects your ride quality), etc...
But that's the great part about it being your car. You get to decide what you want your Mustang to be. Just be cautious and think about how these parts may affect the rest of your driving experience, safety and wallet if it breaks or breaks something else in the car."
6/23/17, 04:48 AM
#14
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As far as I know, a hand held tuner is the only way to remove the top speed limiter 
. Even when you order a tune for your hand held tuner it has a top speed limiter. You have to pick the top speed limit when you 'load' the tune. My tunes came with 125 mph 'checked', I 'checked' top speed limit 'OFF' when I load my tunes.
I think the tunes are sold with a speed limiter of 125mph for legal reasons
You have to turn it 'off' every time you load the tune
. Even when you order a tune for your hand held tuner it has a top speed limiter. You have to pick the top speed limit when you 'load' the tune. My tunes came with 125 mph 'checked', I 'checked' top speed limit 'OFF' when I load my tunes. I think the tunes are sold with a speed limiter of 125mph for legal reasons
You have to turn it 'off' every time you load the tune
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