Ecclestone to propose V10 comeback for F1
12/12/14, 06:21 AM
#1
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Ecclestone to propose V10 comeback for F1
Bring it on, but I will believe it when I see/hear it! Bernie's last idea before he kicks the bucket?
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ec...omeback-for-f1
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ec...omeback-for-f1
Meeting with a select group of reporters on Thursday including Forbes' business journalist Christian Sylt, the F1 chief executive revealed that he intends to propose the sport brings back loud "normally-aspirated" engines for 2016.
He said he will table the matter at the December 18 meeting of the powerful Strategy Group.
Asked if he is contemplating V8s or V10s, and referring to the teams and manufacturers, 84-year-old Ecclestone answered: "It's up to them."
Ecclestone said to counter the argument that abandoning the quieter energy-recovery-boosted turbos would be a backwards step, the 2016 engines would be branded as 'Hybrid' and have KERS systems aboard.
And he played down suggestions carmakers like Honda and Mercedes will walk away by insisting it would actually be "a bit of a dream for them to build a normally-aspirated engine and develop it to about 1000 horse power".
He said he will table the matter at the December 18 meeting of the powerful Strategy Group.
Asked if he is contemplating V8s or V10s, and referring to the teams and manufacturers, 84-year-old Ecclestone answered: "It's up to them."
Ecclestone said to counter the argument that abandoning the quieter energy-recovery-boosted turbos would be a backwards step, the 2016 engines would be branded as 'Hybrid' and have KERS systems aboard.
And he played down suggestions carmakers like Honda and Mercedes will walk away by insisting it would actually be "a bit of a dream for them to build a normally-aspirated engine and develop it to about 1000 horse power".
12/14/14, 12:59 PM
#2
NTTAWWT
I think it's a bad move. The current engines aren't quiet because of what they are, but because of the fuel usage limits. They're only seeing ~60% of their rpm capacities, therefore, no noise. This is the way of the future engine wise, why go backwards? Mercedes have already stated they'd leave if the turbo engines were axed.
12/14/14, 01:40 PM
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I think it's a bad move. The current engines aren't quiet because of what they are, but because of the fuel usage limits. They're only seeing ~60% of their rpm capacities, therefore, no noise. This is the way of the future engine wise, why go backwards? Mercedes have already stated they'd leave if the turbo engines were axed.
While turbo's are hailed as way to get more power out of smaller cubes, they have not proven to provide much (if any) improvement in fuel efficiency for the street (EB).
The sounds of racing are a key part of the experience. So I'm all for restoring that experience while making additional leaps in "energy recovery" technology in combination.
Last edited by cdynaco; 12/14/14 at 02:03 PM.
12/14/14, 02:13 PM
#4
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While they are limited in rpm, the buzz comes from the added complexity of the turbo system. I don't see how spinning the engines higher is going to take that buzzing away. While turbo's are hailed as way to get more power out of smaller cubes, they have not proven to provide much (if any) improvement in fuel efficiency for the street (EB). The sounds of racing are a key part of the experience. So I'm all for restoring that experience while making additional leaps in "energy recovery" technology in combination.
12/14/14, 02:20 PM
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Actually the problem is that the turbo engines ARE more efficient...in RACE cars lol. Not street cars. When cars are putt putting around for 99% of the time, a higher torque/steeper geared large displacement engine will be better at moving around than a 1.6T 4 cylinder that's not hitting boost.
Hence F1 having to limit rpm's to stay under fuel constraints... hence the F150 EB guys complaining no better mileage than the 5.0...
So "more efficient" in power is not the same as more fuel efficient.
Isn't that right?
Last edited by cdynaco; 12/14/14 at 02:28 PM.
12/14/14, 02:21 PM
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While they may be more efficient in getting more power out of smaller cubes, that only happens under boost right? Whether a blower or a turbo, that boost is burning more fuel than NA... right? Hence F1 having to limit rpm's to stay under fuel constraints... hence the F150 EB guys complaining no better mileage than the 5.0... So "more efficient" in power is not that same as more fuel efficient. Isn't that right?
12/18/14, 10:22 AM
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Proof that they can sound great!
F1 Top Gear Lewis Hamilton Drives Ayrton Senna's MP4/4 F1 Car - YouTube
F1 Top Gear Lewis Hamilton Drives Ayrton Senna's MP4/4 F1 Car - YouTube
Gerhard Berger on a quick lap with his Benetton B186 at Adelaide Street Circuit in 1986.
Since it was the last race before taking effect of the boost pressure limitation it is probably the most powerful F1 car ever.
The engine is a 1.5l inline 4 single turbo with up to 5.5bar (80psi) of boost pressure and reving to 11500rpm with an estimated power of 1350HP.
There is no accurate information about the power because the BMW dyno was not able to messure the engine on full boost.
Since it was the last race before taking effect of the boost pressure limitation it is probably the most powerful F1 car ever.
The engine is a 1.5l inline 4 single turbo with up to 5.5bar (80psi) of boost pressure and reving to 11500rpm with an estimated power of 1350HP.
There is no accurate information about the power because the BMW dyno was not able to messure the engine on full boost.
12/21/14, 05:09 PM
#9
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Had not see either of those videos before - very cool. Loved Lewis Hamilton's feedback on Senna's car... makes me want to go watch "Senna" again on Netflix....
F1 needs to do something. The ingenuity seen in the 80's and 90's is largely gone with the extremely strict regulations. And the turbo V6's used this past season do sound horrible in comparison with just about every other F1 car ever made.
F1 needs to do something. The ingenuity seen in the 80's and 90's is largely gone with the extremely strict regulations. And the turbo V6's used this past season do sound horrible in comparison with just about every other F1 car ever made.
12/21/14, 08:48 PM
#10
NTTAWWT
They're talking about upping the HP for next year. In all honesty, all they really need to do is up the fuel flow restriction. When that gets upped, the rpm's will go up, then the noise will return.
12/21/14, 09:54 PM
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http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2014/0/1176.html
Last edited by cdynaco; 12/21/14 at 09:57 PM.
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