Those who have Auto GT w/ 3:15 gears and went to a
11/24/14, 10:12 PM
#21
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Terry, I think you've learned that Scott is the "Gear ****."
If you look at S197forum's fastest 4V 1/4 mile list, Scott is right that the 3 fastest on the list with the 6R80 automatic have 3.31 gears. However, what he's overlooking is that these are high horsepower, light weight cars that are trapping 120-129 mph. That means that they need less gear than a heavier, lower powered car that's trapping in the 110-119 mph range. Steeper gears would require going into 5th gear, so they have geared appropriately for their trap speeds.
Look further down that list at the next 3 cars (which trap under 120 mph) and you'll see that they are all 3.73 & 4.10 geared cars. These gears make much more sense at these lower trap speeds as they won't bounce off the rev limiter in 4th or require a shift into 5th gear like they would in a the faster cars that trap over 120 mph.
My car is the 6th quickest 6R80 on that list and is quicker than EVERY 3.15 geared car on the list. My car has no power mods other than tuning. Converter is the best mod for our cars, tuning is just as important, and gearing & off road exhaust are good mods, as well.
If you look at S197forum's fastest 4V 1/4 mile list, Scott is right that the 3 fastest on the list with the 6R80 automatic have 3.31 gears. However, what he's overlooking is that these are high horsepower, light weight cars that are trapping 120-129 mph. That means that they need less gear than a heavier, lower powered car that's trapping in the 110-119 mph range. Steeper gears would require going into 5th gear, so they have geared appropriately for their trap speeds.
Look further down that list at the next 3 cars (which trap under 120 mph) and you'll see that they are all 3.73 & 4.10 geared cars. These gears make much more sense at these lower trap speeds as they won't bounce off the rev limiter in 4th or require a shift into 5th gear like they would in a the faster cars that trap over 120 mph.
My car is the 6th quickest 6R80 on that list and is quicker than EVERY 3.15 geared car on the list. My car has no power mods other than tuning. Converter is the best mod for our cars, tuning is just as important, and gearing & off road exhaust are good mods, as well.
11/24/14, 10:27 PM
#22
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I've documented changes to my car in great detail over at S197 to see what mods did what for my 1/4 mile ET's. I've been agonizing over them all season and recently went back through them to look at how DA (density altitude) affected numbers. Here's what I realized about my swap from 3.15 gears to 4.10 gears...
DA was 300' worse with my first trip to the track with 4.10's vs my last runs with the 3.15's. Despite worse weather, my car's best ET improved a full tenth (12.03 with 3.15's, 11.93 with 4.10's) and my trap speed improved 2+ mph. My 60 foots were nearly identical (stall converter works wonders) with a 1.655 vs 1.656 - basically identical.
More importantly, with 3.15's I could NEVER get the car into the 11's. First day with the 4.10's (and DA that was 300' worse), I went 11.9's 6 out of 8 runs. The other 2 runs were 12.0's. I ran two different tunes that first outing with the 4.10's: a BAMA race tune and a Mike Rousch tune - both netted the same ET's and trap speeds. However, the Mike Rousch tune has far superior drivability on the street.
So, I believe that 4.10's are better at my car's power level than the 3.15's. And, they are much more entertaining for my daily driving duties than the 3.15's ever were. Money well spent in my opinion.
DA was 300' worse with my first trip to the track with 4.10's vs my last runs with the 3.15's. Despite worse weather, my car's best ET improved a full tenth (12.03 with 3.15's, 11.93 with 4.10's) and my trap speed improved 2+ mph. My 60 foots were nearly identical (stall converter works wonders) with a 1.655 vs 1.656 - basically identical.
More importantly, with 3.15's I could NEVER get the car into the 11's. First day with the 4.10's (and DA that was 300' worse), I went 11.9's 6 out of 8 runs. The other 2 runs were 12.0's. I ran two different tunes that first outing with the 4.10's: a BAMA race tune and a Mike Rousch tune - both netted the same ET's and trap speeds. However, the Mike Rousch tune has far superior drivability on the street.
So, I believe that 4.10's are better at my car's power level than the 3.15's. And, they are much more entertaining for my daily driving duties than the 3.15's ever were. Money well spent in my opinion.
Last edited by Five Oh Brian; 11/25/14 at 12:30 AM.
11/25/14, 06:01 AM
#23
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Terry, I think you've learned that Scott is the "Gear ****."
If you look at S197forum's fastest 4V 1/4 mile list, Scott is right that the 3 fastest on the list with the 6R80 automatic have 3.31 gears. However, what he's overlooking is that these are high horsepower, light weight cars that are trapping 120-129 mph. That means that they need less gear than a heavier, lower powered car that's trapping in the 110-119 mph range. Steeper gears would require going into 5th gear, so they have geared appropriately for their trap speeds.
Look further down that list at the next 3 cars (which trap under 120 mph) and you'll see that they are all 3.73 & 4.10 geared cars. These gears make much more sense at these lower trap speeds as they won't bounce off the rev limiter in 4th or require a shift into 5th gear like they would in a the faster cars that trap over 120 mph.
My car is the 6th quickest 6R80 on that list and is quicker than EVERY 3.15 geared car on the list. My car has no power mods other than tuning. Converter is the best mod for our cars, tuning is just as important, and gearing & off road exhaust are good mods, as well.
If you look at S197forum's fastest 4V 1/4 mile list, Scott is right that the 3 fastest on the list with the 6R80 automatic have 3.31 gears. However, what he's overlooking is that these are high horsepower, light weight cars that are trapping 120-129 mph. That means that they need less gear than a heavier, lower powered car that's trapping in the 110-119 mph range. Steeper gears would require going into 5th gear, so they have geared appropriately for their trap speeds.
Look further down that list at the next 3 cars (which trap under 120 mph) and you'll see that they are all 3.73 & 4.10 geared cars. These gears make much more sense at these lower trap speeds as they won't bounce off the rev limiter in 4th or require a shift into 5th gear like they would in a the faster cars that trap over 120 mph.
My car is the 6th quickest 6R80 on that list and is quicker than EVERY 3.15 geared car on the list. My car has no power mods other than tuning. Converter is the best mod for our cars, tuning is just as important, and gearing & off road exhaust are good mods, as well.
11/25/14, 11:19 AM
#25
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My old car was a geared car with stall and it was a hoot to drive. Thrashed the crap out of many 5.0 cars. My horror story is I went through 4 transmissions after installing the PI triple disc 3000 stall converter. Don't want to have to do that with the new car so will wait a while on that.
I would highly recommend a Circle-D Stall Converter sooner than later in your '14. It's my favorite mod in my '14 and it dropped my ET's dramatically at the dragstrip. The 6R80 automatic is incredibly stout - much stronger than the 5R55S you had in your '06, so you won't be breaking the trans in this car.
You sound like the kind of guy that would want a big rpm stall converter, so I'd get a 5C at the minimum, or have Chris at Circle-D custom build a converter that flashes even higher. I had Chris do a 4E converter for me and it flashes to 5,000 rpm's which works very well with the high revving Coyote 5.0L.
11/25/14, 11:24 AM
#26
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I beg to differ. Steeper gears get you into the meat of your powerband quicker, so it'll pull harder. These cars make good power up top, so getting into that rpm range quicker with a converter & gearing works better, IMO. And, with a converter, you keep the revs up high during upshifts, further keeping the car in its powerband.
11/25/14, 05:55 PM
#27
I have an 11 GT with 4.10 gears, a Steeda tune, 3600 Circle D and MT ET Street radials on huge 18" wheels, and I did an 11.69 1/4 mile at 118+ this year. And even with that best run, I felt the car had much more in it.
The 3600 converter with 4.10 gears is a perfect match. You stay in the powerband the entire way down the track. It almost feels like you're going down the track in 1 gear because the gear shifts stay so deep in the band.
The 3600 converter with 4.10 gears is a perfect match. You stay in the powerband the entire way down the track. It almost feels like you're going down the track in 1 gear because the gear shifts stay so deep in the band.
11/25/14, 07:00 PM
#29
Plus, what was the temperature, humidity and Barometric Pressure? You aren't even close to comparing apples to apples. Weather alone can cause a full second or more in difference when comparing cars which are mod-for-mod the same. So no, you don't know how those 3.15's are actually influencing your car compared to 4.10's considering you haven't had them on your car. I've yet to meet somebody who didn't run faster on 4.10's if the driver themselves didn't need a driver mod, and was capable of actually logically comparing their runs when faced with different weather conditions. Nice try at a misleading statement though.
Last edited by db2797; 11/25/14 at 07:02 PM.
11/25/14, 10:29 PM
#30
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Scott, trapping at 122 mph tells me that 3.73's or 4.10's would slow down your car as it would have to shift into 5th gear before the traps. Your car is geared appropriately for your power & weight (although I think that 3.31's or 3.55's might actually work better in your car).
My 4.10's are a great match for my car's power & weight, plus my car's 116-117 mph trap speed. I cross the traps in 4th ever so close to redline. However, they will no longer be ideal once I trap in the 120's. At that time, I'll dial back the gearing a bit (maybe 3.90's or 3.73's) as I'm already running a fairly tall 28" tall drag radial. For now, however, the 4.10's are right for my combo.
Isn't it wonderful that Ford offers such a wide array of gear ratios so that everyone can tailor gearing to their particular application and combo?!?! Over the years, I've used almost all of Ford's ratios in my 8.8" diffs. I've run the following: 2.73, 3.08, 3.27, 3.31, 3.55, 3.73, 4.10, 4.30 and 4.56.
Last edited by Five Oh Brian; 11/25/14 at 10:32 PM.
11/25/14, 11:46 PM
#31
Scott, trapping at 122 mph tells me that 3.73's or 4.10's would slow down your car as it would have to shift into 5th gear before the traps. Your car is geared appropriately for your power & weight (although I think that 3.31's or 3.55's might actually work better in your car).
My 4.10's are a great match for my car's power & weight, plus my car's 116-117 mph trap speed. I cross the traps in 4th ever so close to redline. However, they will no longer be ideal once I trap in the 120's. At that time, I'll dial back the gearing a bit (maybe 3.90's or 3.73's) as I'm already running a fairly tall 28" tall drag radial. For now, however, the 4.10's are right for my combo.
Isn't it wonderful that Ford offers such a wide array of gear ratios so that everyone can tailor gearing to their particular application and combo?!?! Over the years, I've used almost all of Ford's ratios in my 8.8" diffs. I've run the following: 2.73, 3.08, 3.27, 3.31, 3.55, 3.73, 4.10, 4.30 and 4.56.
My 4.10's are a great match for my car's power & weight, plus my car's 116-117 mph trap speed. I cross the traps in 4th ever so close to redline. However, they will no longer be ideal once I trap in the 120's. At that time, I'll dial back the gearing a bit (maybe 3.90's or 3.73's) as I'm already running a fairly tall 28" tall drag radial. For now, however, the 4.10's are right for my combo.
Isn't it wonderful that Ford offers such a wide array of gear ratios so that everyone can tailor gearing to their particular application and combo?!?! Over the years, I've used almost all of Ford's ratios in my 8.8" diffs. I've run the following: 2.73, 3.08, 3.27, 3.31, 3.55, 3.73, 4.10, 4.30 and 4.56.
And I know you are already aware of this Brian
so I'm not targeting this to you, but it just seems to me that sometimes people are repeating things they've read or heard and don't necessarily have real facts to back their claims. It just reminds me of some other piece of misinformation I keep seeing people repeat, that "your mph was high because you spun". That one drives me crazy too...I've never seen or heard of a drag car spinning their tires and then running a higher MPH. I think that is something people repeat but misunderstand. It's not that your MPH was high because you spun, it's simply that your MPH looks high compared to the slower ET a car ran from spinning. But I digress. 
11/26/14, 08:06 AM
#32
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I agree about shifts not really slowing down an automatic trans car. My tune rips off lightning quick/firm shifts and my stall converter keeps me at 5,000 rpm's and up, so an extra shift shouldn't cost my car anything.
11/26/14, 10:43 AM
#34
Because you have aftermarket suspension and weld wheels. I have stock suspension and 18" wheels. I'm pretty sure those differences alone have a weight difference. And I also put 60 lbs in my trunk to help with traction. But you also ignored all my other points I see. So no. These aren't excuses. They are facts.
11/26/14, 10:46 AM
#35
Exactly. Shifting is only bad if you fall out of your powerband. And these trannies are lightning fast shifting with a good tune that keeps them stiff.
12/1/14, 12:05 AM
#36
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I just put together a spreadsheet for my car to illustrate what 4.10 gears, a 28" tall drag radial, and a 7200 rpm shiftpoint do for me...
1st gear goes to 34 mph - just about enough to cover my 60' time.
2nd gear goes to 61 mph - just enough for a quick mid-3 second 0-60 mph sprint.
3rd gear goes to 95 mph - enough to cover the 1/8 mile with a couple mph to spare.
4th gear goes to 126 mph - enough to cover the 1/4 mile with a little room to grow.
5th gear goes to 167 mph - like I'm ever gonna need that much top end!
6th gear goes to 208 mph - but only in a vacuum.
60 mph cruising only requires 2,100 rpm's. 80 mph only requires 2,800 rpm's.
The same math for my original 3.15 gears shows 1st gear would go all the way to 45 mph, 2nd gear would go to 80 mph, 3rd gear would go to 123 mph. That's all you'd need in a 1/4 mile. 4th, 5th, and 6th would go to 164, 217, and 271 mph, thus rendering them all as overdrives. Why on earth would anyone want 3 overdrive gears!?!? Seems like such a waste in a performance car.
I'm intrigued by the prospect of running Ford's 5.13 gear (deepest ratio I can find from them). The same math as above, but with a shorter 26" tall drag radial is very interesting: It shows 1st gear capable of 26 mph, 2nd going to 46, 3rd going to 71, 4th going to 95 and 5th going to 126 mph, so 4th would cover the 1/8 mile and 5th would cover the 1/4 mile. 6th gear would have a top speed of 157 mph, which is more than anyone would ever really need. With a tuned/stalled auto and firm/quick upshifts at wide open throttle, the extra shift shouldn't slow the car down, and the extra torque multiplication would be interesting to try. Has anyone ever run a Coyote 6R80 with that much gear? Inquiring minds want to know!
1st gear goes to 34 mph - just about enough to cover my 60' time.
2nd gear goes to 61 mph - just enough for a quick mid-3 second 0-60 mph sprint.
3rd gear goes to 95 mph - enough to cover the 1/8 mile with a couple mph to spare.
4th gear goes to 126 mph - enough to cover the 1/4 mile with a little room to grow.
5th gear goes to 167 mph - like I'm ever gonna need that much top end!
6th gear goes to 208 mph - but only in a vacuum.
60 mph cruising only requires 2,100 rpm's. 80 mph only requires 2,800 rpm's.
The same math for my original 3.15 gears shows 1st gear would go all the way to 45 mph, 2nd gear would go to 80 mph, 3rd gear would go to 123 mph. That's all you'd need in a 1/4 mile. 4th, 5th, and 6th would go to 164, 217, and 271 mph, thus rendering them all as overdrives. Why on earth would anyone want 3 overdrive gears!?!? Seems like such a waste in a performance car.
I'm intrigued by the prospect of running Ford's 5.13 gear (deepest ratio I can find from them). The same math as above, but with a shorter 26" tall drag radial is very interesting: It shows 1st gear capable of 26 mph, 2nd going to 46, 3rd going to 71, 4th going to 95 and 5th going to 126 mph, so 4th would cover the 1/8 mile and 5th would cover the 1/4 mile. 6th gear would have a top speed of 157 mph, which is more than anyone would ever really need. With a tuned/stalled auto and firm/quick upshifts at wide open throttle, the extra shift shouldn't slow the car down, and the extra torque multiplication would be interesting to try. Has anyone ever run a Coyote 6R80 with that much gear? Inquiring minds want to know!
Last edited by Five Oh Brian; 12/1/14 at 12:09 AM.
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