Stock brembo brakes faded while racing
#21
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Hey guys, well coming up next year I plan on taking my car to a few track days as long as finances keep on track. Figured since all the mustang racing experts are on this thread, why not ask. I already have Autocrossed my car for a year and have the itch for more. Obviously I will need better rubber which is on its way but I was curious about brakes since that is what the topic of this thread is about. Normally Gt parts will fit the v6 quite easily but I am having a hard time finding a kit for all four corners. There is the 6-piston gt500 brembo upgrade but it says it only fits GT and above cars. There are front brake kits but I don't want to run my stock rear brakes with upgraded fronts. I am already noticing brake fade after about three autocross runs so I know I will be in trouble on a full on track. What would you guys recommend for a brake setup. I am hoping that my lighter weight will help me around the track.
1) V6 is lighter, so less energy needed to brake the car
2) v6 won't be as fast as the GT at the end of long straights, so again less kinetic energy to shed
3) V6 rear brakes are same size 1 piston setup as those on GTs, even those with Brembo fronts (only pads are different on the rear).
So to be perfectly honest with you, you just need some better rear pads for the back, and I would just recommend a 4 piston 14" front brake upgrade. That would bring you to the same setup as Track Pack/Brembo cars. With some fluid and maybe lines you'd have a very good brake setup, considering how light the car is.
And the cost would be < $1500 with pads and fluid:
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/...e-Kit-M-2300-S
or
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/...it-Black-05-14
Of course you'll likely need better pads than what these come with, but these would be a great improvement over stock V6 brakes.
Last edited by 5.M0NSTER; 11/24/14 at 01:41 PM.
#22
Currently a Corvette Owner!
I would just recommend a 4 piston 14" front brake upgrade. That would bring you to the same setup as Track Pack/Brembo cars. With some fluid and maybe lines you'd have a very good brake setup, considering how light the car is.
And the cost would be < $1500 with pads and fluid:
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/...e-Kit-M-2300-S
or
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/...it-Black-05-14
Of course you'll likely need better pads than what these come with, but these would be a great improvement over stock V6 brakes.
And the cost would be < $1500 with pads and fluid:
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/...e-Kit-M-2300-S
or
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/...it-Black-05-14
Of course you'll likely need better pads than what these come with, but these would be a great improvement over stock V6 brakes.
I have the SVT Ford Racing kit (the first one Monster listed, M-2300S) installed on my 2011 (I have an old thread on TMS about it - https://themustangsource.com/forums/...pgrade-515379/). Fantastic, plus includes steel lines and SVT pads front and rear. For mild track duty, I use these pads, I think you will love the kit, I know I do. DOT4 synthetic fluid (or better) is a must, too. Good luck!
Last edited by PJRManagement; 11/24/14 at 01:55 PM.
#23
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Thanks a ton guys! Now to add these to my racing budget. I figured around that price range of $1500 for a good braking setup.
Last edited by killaz05; 11/24/14 at 02:03 PM.
#24
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This would also be a good time to think about how wide of a tire you want to run, and aspect ratio. Most here run 275 or 285 for track days. Some run wider still.
#25
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Great stuff here. One note, soft front bar can lessen grip int the front. As you roll, you also lose camber. I had a long talk with Strano about how to set my car up and found that if you're in the ballpark, as others have said, the fine tuning is totally personal, you have to know what you want to fix/improve before you should make changes. I really like EBC Bluestuff pads so far. With no cooling and ATE super blue, it took a few hot laps at mid ohio to get fade, then one 80% to get them back. Never had fade at Barber or Pittrace but my vmax at these two is much lower. Trying cooling ducts and the Brembo fluid this season. Might try Orangestuffs if I still get fade. I have been using a staggered tire setup on (4) 10" gt500's, with 275's R6's in the front and 295's in the rear.
Trying 295/40 R6's this season in a square setup. They cleared in low speed auto cross type maneuvers so far.. Hopefully addressing the gear problem a little . 3.73's do seem just about half a gear short pretty often..
Trying 295/40 R6's this season in a square setup. They cleared in low speed auto cross type maneuvers so far.. Hopefully addressing the gear problem a little . 3.73's do seem just about half a gear short pretty often..
After we lowered by 2 psi front & 1 psi back those tires at the track immediately gained traction at the track. But still I am thinking about the comments from the instructor of softening the front bar because he did not liked the steering feel, probably that instead could be fixed with a good alignment without messing with the swaybars adjustment, my Strano's bars were set at middle in the front & soft in the back, and I felt the car stable without any tendency toward understeer and very slight almost no present oversteer or at least a controlled one, even while driving without the T.C., what also help me the most was to follow the instructor advice to don't enter the curves hot and just steep on the throttle while exiting the apex. Yes my brakes suffered probably because of their poor ventilation resulting boiled brake fluid, perhaps combined with the Mustang's heavy weight.
Even that I steeped hard on the throttle on straights with my 5.0 , 3.73 gear, & 6 speed manual transmission, I was really surprised to see that I could not pass the BMW M3 (V8), almost like we had the same setup, and probably he had less effort on the curves with his better suspension & benefited by his upgraded, bigger than stock brakes.
Last edited by M3hunter; 7/12/21 at 05:32 AM.
#26
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GREAT SUGGESTIONS from all you guys, I think that I will concentrate in cooling those brakes, like most of you mentioned, by using synthetic brake fluid & some type of ventilation ducts, flush brakes, but still I'm undecided on the brake pads to use, I don't know if there is a brake pad that will give me 50/50 street & track, that I don't have to change, something that gives me stronger braking with no fade but without increasing noise to a level that everybody stares to the car in the street thinking that I am driving without brakes.
After we lowered by 2 psi front & 1 psi back those tires at the track immediately gained traction at the track. But still I am thinking about the comments from the instructor of softening the front bar because he did not liked the steering feel, probably that instead could be fixed with a good alignment without messing with the swaybars adjustment, my Strano's bars were set at middle in the front & soft in the back, and I felt the car stable without any tendency toward understeer and very slight almost no present oversteer or at least a controlled one, even while driving without the T.C., what also help me the most was to follow the instructor advice to don't enter the curves hot and just steep on the throttle while exiting the apex. Yes my brakes suffered probably because of their poor ventilation resulting boiled brake fluid, perhaps combined with the Mustang's heavy weight.
Even that I steeped hard on the throttle on straights with my 5.0 , 3.73 gear, & standard transmission, I was really surprised to see that I could not pass the BMW M3 (V8), almost like we had the same setup, and probably he had less effort on the curves with his better suspension & benefited by his upgraded, bigger than stock brakes.
After we lowered by 2 psi front & 1 psi back those tires at the track immediately gained traction at the track. But still I am thinking about the comments from the instructor of softening the front bar because he did not liked the steering feel, probably that instead could be fixed with a good alignment without messing with the swaybars adjustment, my Strano's bars were set at middle in the front & soft in the back, and I felt the car stable without any tendency toward understeer and very slight almost no present oversteer or at least a controlled one, even while driving without the T.C., what also help me the most was to follow the instructor advice to don't enter the curves hot and just steep on the throttle while exiting the apex. Yes my brakes suffered probably because of their poor ventilation resulting boiled brake fluid, perhaps combined with the Mustang's heavy weight.
Even that I steeped hard on the throttle on straights with my 5.0 , 3.73 gear, & standard transmission, I was really surprised to see that I could not pass the BMW M3 (V8), almost like we had the same setup, and probably he had less effort on the curves with his better suspension & benefited by his upgraded, bigger than stock brakes.
If you want to chase down M3s at the track you'll have to go to a true track pad at some point.
#27
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How much street driving do you do? I have driven my Pagid rst2 fronts and st56's on the street but I only do about 3000 street miles a season and about 1500 track miles. Doing a track day every 10-14 days with only 4-5 street days in between was hard for me to justify swapping pads. The Pagids will work on the street and they will easily out perform street pads but they make noise and DUST. Will wear quickly too in comparison to street pads but I don't care about that given I go thru pads like water with all the track time anyways...
If you swap to full track pads you'll never want to go back
If you swap to full track pads you'll never want to go back
Last edited by dmichaels; 11/27/14 at 01:16 PM.
#28
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The only suggestions I can think of if you don't want to swap pads would be Carbotech AX6 or Hawk HPS. They will do better than the stock Ferodo pads, but will fade when pushed. It's a compromise.
If you want to chase down M3s at the track you'll have to go to a true track pad at some point.
If you want to chase down M3s at the track you'll have to go to a true track pad at some point.
#29
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How much street driving do you do? I have driven my Pagid rst2 fronts and st56's on the street but I only do about 3000 street miles a season and about 1500 track miles. Doing a track day every 10-14 days with only 4-5 street days in between was hard for me to justify swapping pads. The Pagids will work on the street and they will easily out perform street pads but they make noise and DUST. Will wear quickly too in comparison to street pads but I don't care about that given I go thru pads like water with all the track time anyways...
If you swap to full track pads you'll never want to go back
If you swap to full track pads you'll never want to go back
#30
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I know this is off topic but your post gave me a couple of questions.
What do you think of your Strano sways? I'm considering this as my next mod.
My other question was in regards to dmicheals recommendation on brake cooling. This was on my list but I've gotten conflicting reports as to its effectiveness. Could you share more about your experience with your car before and after this mod.
What do you think of your Strano sways? I'm considering this as my next mod.
My other question was in regards to dmicheals recommendation on brake cooling. This was on my list but I've gotten conflicting reports as to its effectiveness. Could you share more about your experience with your car before and after this mod.
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