Mug-stang

Hello everybody. I am new here, I registered to get into the hood corrosion conversation, but I wanted to get some feedback on my ongoing clutch issues.

I bought my 2013 Mustang GT in October 2012 and originally the clutch felt very normal. The past year it's been feeling very vague and was a bit noisy at idle and revving. I brought it to ford and they found a broken disc spring and replaced the pressure plate, disc, and slave cylinder for a goodwill offer of 250. I was well out of warranty too with 45000 miles. However, they did not replace the flywheel which I was very disappointed with.

So when I got it back the new clutch felt great, just such a pleasure to drive and shifting and slipping the clutch from a stop was effortless. There was a bit of chatter slipping the clutch in 1st from a stop and in reverse from a stop though. Shifts were incredibly positive and always went right into gear with perfection and smooth. This lasted about a week. I stalled it out one day and since then, the clutch has been feeling very heavy and it's a chore shifting smoothly without a crunch or notchyness. Simply put, something feels very off.

I have been at a stop and not moving and shift into 1st or 2nd and the car will move forward slightly. I can hold the clutch in for 5 seconds to the floor and it still does it. I tried swapping to a JHR high volume clutch line and although it seems like it might be SLIGHTLY better (maybe a couple cleaner shifts every time I drive it) it still has the same characteristics. Heavy pedal, notchy, crunches or is notchy in 2nd every time I shift into it practically, and 4th as well. Keep in mind, when this clutch was first installed for the first week, rough shifts were a distant memory. It was **** close to perfect. Since I stalled out, this has been occurring.

I took it back into ford a week ago to try to get them to take it apart to look things over but the service manager (who really took care of me with the whole clutch issue) told me he wanted his lead tech to drive it. I have to drive 40 miles to this dealer, it's where I bought the car. When I get off the highway driving for that long, it actually shifts a bit better for a short time. He drove it and said it felt fine, so I'm thinking because of him saying that, I'm out of luck. However, I KNOW something is wrong because a brand new clutch shouldn't be causing notchy shifting and causing the car to move forward when putting it in 1st gear at a stop.

My question is, does anybody else notice their car moving forward on lever ground, at a stop, when going into 1st or 2nd gear? And those of you with aftermarket clutches, has your shifting improved? My guess is the clutch isn't fully disengaging. I told that to the tech and he immediately deflected it and told me if it wasn't disengaging there would be significant grinding and hard to put it into gear. Gear changes feel very vague when taking out the clutch and jumpy too.

I'm wondering if I should keep fighting this and try to get them to give me a new clutch? And flywheel? Or should I just say screw it and put in an exedy Mach 500? I've heard good reviews on that clutch but my clutch from ford has a 2 year unlimited mile warranty. I'm afraid I'm damaging the transmission with this clutch. The high flow clutch line didn't help, so maybe it's the slave cylinder?

I just need some advice on how to handle the situation as it stands right now. I am planning on vaccuum bleeding my master cylinder to get all the air out of this JHR clutch line to see if that could fix the issue, but I would take out the JHR and put the stock line back in to bring it back to ford.

Horspla

Keep after them....take a closer look at your warranty: 5yr/60k miles on powetrain. Last I heard the tranny is part of the powertrain.

John

Mug-stang

Would it be worth bringing it in to have them look at my synchros or would they charge me for the labor if there isn't a problem? I feel like my 2nd gear is about to go out. Downshifting the other day I accidentally put it in 2nd instead of 4th at 40-45 mph and when I put it in 2nd, without engaging the clutch or revving the motor, there was a loud resonance and vibrated my center console. I did it later on while driving and the same thing happened. Would that be bad bearings or something? It doesn't do that in any other gear.

FordService

You should speak with your service manager about this, Mug-stang. He is in the best position to ensure a proper diagnosis, and will be able to provide available options and/or coverage for any work needed.

Deysha

FromZto5

^ What John said.

That's all part of the power train warranty. Make them fix it. Should be ZERO cost to you, provided none of your mods affected it (which I doubt).

CriticalmassGT

Hydraulic Fluid Leak will cause this. I test drove a Pontiac Fiero once that would do this if the clutch was left in too long the car would start to slowly engage and creep forward. It was a $600.00 repair back then because they had to pull the engine out to get to the clutch. (both were in the back).

It's not safe to drive.

FromZto5

^ $600 only for pulling the whole engine? Dang that's cheap!

ford4v429

sounds like it needs bled, hopefully the slave hasnt started leaking- look under car for drips around the dustshield at front of bellhousing...

when I changed my 06 clutch, learned these can be hard to bleed- looking at pics, could see why, the fittings come out to the side, and tube drops from top of slave to side hole enough that a 'trap' can form, making bleeding difficult.

found easiest way to get ALL the air out: park car on a hill slightly nose down, and with the drivers side high as possible- just pumping brakes will kinda self bleed, but fluid will aerate and stay weird...park crooked like that, just let it sit for a hour. can try slowly- slower the better- pumping clutch pedal, it will self bleed, but can take a while...
best is put a mightyvac pump on a stopper, put in the master cyl cap, and pump it down- let sit under vacuum a few minutes, done... no pedal pumping required.

if its got air in the slave, engagement will be low, rapid pedal pumping in neutral, then putting in gear and checking if engagement point rises should confirm air in the system- mine was so bad at first you couldnt let the pedal up at all before it would start pulling...vacuum bleed on a hill works

tek302

Clutch is a wear item and is not covered under the power train warranty. It's the same as your brakes. That all goes out the window when you pass your bumper to bumper warranty

FromZto5

That's true if the issue was indeed, "wear". If the issue is something faulty with the clutch system itself, that's not necessarily a "wear" item (say something is leaking, or busted, etc), that better be covered under warranty.

JoeMidnight

45000 miles doesn't seem like much miles on a clutch but, then again, I have no idea what kind of life to expect from a clutch on a car like this. I've typically gone close to 200,000KM before replacing a clutch. I guess that would be about 120k miles.


My understanding is that clutches are a wear and tear component of your car and typically isn't covered under warranty (as it was previously stated)


I think you're on the right track about going aftermarket. that's what I plan on doing. I plan on getting a clutch that's just a bit more aggressive(and flywheel) than stock when my clutch goes.

Mug-stang

Guys thanks for the responses.

The car has been acting much better but still seems to not fully disengage when sitting still on level ground at a stop, and shifting to 1st. The shifting has improved significantly but a couple days ago felt sort of funny and wasn't acting right. It eventually felt better.

I want to vacuum it anyway, just for extra confidence. It does feel pretty good now, but a vacuum bleed while feeling "good" maybe will be beneficial. I'm going to be putting the MGW Race Spec in the car soon and I'll be changing the transmission fluid as well.

There didn't seem to be any leaks underneath the car when I put the other clutch line on either.

Mug-stang

Well after the clutch feeling great for maybe a week and a half it is absolutely acting strange again. The clutch is catching close to the floor and when I have the clutch in while coasting, when I go through the gears I can feel the driveshaft or input shaft moving and something clunking. Something isn't right. I'm calling koons Baltimore tomorrow to tell them I need it looked at ASAP and that I shouldn't need to pay for them to look at it, even if they don't find anything wrong. I've sent several emails to them in the past before it was acting good again about the issues and even brought it in to have the lead tech drive it. This is really annoying me, I don't want to have to buy an aftermarket clutch because there's always a chance it could do the same thing.

Could it be a master cylinder issue? What else could be causing this problem that I just described??

JoeMidnight

I recently replaced my clutch line. I can tell you that after replacing my clutch line, my pedal was completely dead thanks to air in the system. Thankfully, after reading around online, I've learned that the mustang (2014 for sure) has a self bleeding system. so, I pumped the clutch 350 times (for good measure) took me maybe 10 minutes and I got my clutch back. no bleeding or vacuuming required.


Hope this helps.

JoeMidnight

the other thing you may have to have done is, pay a shop to pull down the tranny and have a look at the clutch. that may be the best way to evaluate the situation. IF the clutch is dry and wearing fine. The mechanic will know to look somewhere else. It's kind of a win win ... if its the clutch, great, the car is already apart and you aren't spending any extra $$$. if its not the clutch, great. at least you know that it isn't and the car is apart for them to keep digging.


Good luck!

Mug-stang

Ok, I know the clutch is self bleeding. Did you read the whole thread?

The whole point of this is to not have to pay anything. I had a stock clutch put in by Ford after a spring broke in the disc of my factory clutch. The clutch they put in has a 2 year unlimited mile warranty. Again, I don't want to pay a dime for anything and since I have expressed a lot of concerns to the dealership about how the clutch is feeling. It has always engaged in the middle, maybe a tad higher than that. All of a sudden it has started to engage close to the floor and when having the clutch in while coasting, when I go through the gears, I can feel the gears almost engaging each other and something clunking under the car, either the driveshaft or input shaft or something.

JoeMidnight

yeah, I read your thread. I read that your car was out of warranty and out of goodwill, they still helped you out and charged you a minimal price. My take was that no warranty was offered considering the huge pricecut on the work provided. If in fact, there is 2 year warranty on what was done, get Deysha involved and see if she can help you. Good Luck.

Mug-stang

I contacted koons in Baltimore and I am waiting for a call back from the advisor I was dealing with. If they start giving me a bit of a runaround then I will definitely get deysha involved. Hopefully they will make this right for me.

ford4v429

just gotta reiterate- if the newer ones use the same slave setup as the 06, they will only self bleed to a point- the line exits the bellhousing lower than the fitting at the top/rear of the slave, forming a air bubble 'trap' that cannot self bleed. vacuum will expand that and get 90% of it out, but when the vacuum is released the void will still collapse back to at least a small bubble- unless parked a little nose down(to get any air to the back of the slave where the fitting attaches) and drivers side as high as possible- 10~12" higher than passenger side is enough angle to flatten the 'trap' so any bubbles will float out to the master- the only possible spot then for a bubble to be held will be the tiny area under the bleeder in the stupid/inaccessible wye fitting where the plastic line plugs in- but that would be a tiny volume at best...

if hill bleeding dont help, I'd seriously get under and look for a gap at the bellhousing- doubt it, but when I pulled mine the dowels pulled from the block(rusted into the bellhousing) I knocked them out, cleaned them up, and knocked them back into the block, just because the rear corners are chamferred to help guide the tranny on- I wouldnt doubt theres been guys just stuff it back in, and the squared corners on front of those dowels could dig in to the block, preventing the bell from seating, or even cracking it... wouldnt hurt to look.

only things that I can think of causing early engagement-
1) air in the system
2) axial clearance(loose bellhousing or pressure plate bolts)

pretty much any other failure I could imagine would result in high engagement or slippage...

next time the thing seems like its wanting to creep/pedal engaes close to the floor, simply put in neutral, quickly pump up put back in gear see if pedal is higher- if so, you got air.
if no air, open the hood, push the clutch- you shouldnt see ANY movement looking under the rear edge of the hood, as all the force is internal- if you see the motor moving at all when pressing the clutch, you got a loose bellhousing. if neither of the above show anything, I'd guess pressure plate bolts loose.

cant imagine master causing it, and if slave was bad, you'd most likely see oil if hydraulic issue, and would feel/hear grinding if throwout bearing were failing...

but I'm just guessing

please let us know what you find
tim

FordService

Thank you for the mention and support, guys! Definitely keep me posted, Mug-stang.

Deysha